Merchant Archive
Thread: Feelings of a real merchant
The problem comes about when every thread invariably comes back to I want vendors for free... or, here's a solution: give us something that's not a vendor but that has all the exact same functionality as vendor...for free.
So yes, every thread is about the skillpoint issue.
Sorry, but no they are not. None of my threads has ever been about merchant skillpoints. Ever.
I hear ya. So many of those hours are spent doing silly, useless crap, like relisting, etc. too. Gets frustrating after a few months.
I have strong personal views about how the profession should work and I've made those clear in various posts over the past year. I represent everyone in this forum but I also must speak my mind about what I think is the best course. To do otherwiise would be dishonest and a disservice to you all.
Yes, but you respond with class and constraint. Not coloring up the discussions with personal attacks, rudeness or downright obstinance. This makes having a discussion much more enjoyable and productive.
This skill point issue and issues that invariably end up coming back to the concept of getting skills that are unique to the merchant profession (counting our Artisan Business colleagues in that group) without expending skillspoints for them invariably descend into flames, nitpicking, and semantics. I wish all of you who feel passionately about this subject would lower the flame level and stop arguing the same points over and over with the same people. I know it is difficult to let a point pass without comment when you feel in your gut that it is wrong, but if you have made the point to that poster already then you are wasting your time trying to convince them. There is a time to simply agree that you don't agree on something and remove the heat from the debate.
But Dingboi is bringing the skill point problem into threads that have nothing to do with that issue, and then argues that the thread(s) is/are about skill points when, clearly they are not. My thread was about the idiotic dumping of items into my storeroom, and my frustration, after many months, of having to relist items all the time, with no real tools to deal with it. If ANYONE can explain to me how this is related to skill points...
Every profession in this game is supposed to have a unique, meaningful role to play in the game. Merchant is no different. Just becuase it is commonly held that it isn't possible to sell items in the game without a vendor doesn't chagne the fact that merchant as a profession has a role and that role must be protected and expanded not diluted.
The problem is that SOE, when they designed the game, put all the main pieces to make a decent game, but then did not put in any of the connections, tools, or smaller pieces that join everything into one coherent system. They didn't 'finish' the game. It's like building a house, they put in the floors, walls, roof, and cupboards but left out insulation, shingles, plumbing and doors. The methods they chose to try and force merchants into limiting inventory were poorly thought out, horribly implemented and as a result ruin the enjoyment of that class profession. These problems are apparent in all classes throughout the game. So for merchant, yes we are supposed to be the sellers for crafters, but there is no way that a crafter is going to trust a merchant he/she doesn't know, so crafters have no choice but to become merchants as well. This means that the combat side of the game is nearly non-existant because you can't do both. What we end up with is a lot of frustrated crafters trying to feed a dwindling user market. Add to this the fact that there is no end game, after one has finished his/her character, there is nothing to do. No point in combat, so why would you need more equipment.
Frankly ideas that are designed to give more selling power to crafters at the expense of merchants probably belong in the forums for those crafting professions and not in this forum. The point of a professional forum is to promote and discuss THAT profession not to propose ways in which it should be removed from the game. You are free to propose such things, however the fact that the response isn't warm and fuzzy shouldn't surprise you.
Of course, but back to the point of this thread is that Dingboi tries to make EVERY thread about skill points, whether the thread has anything to do with skill points or not, and he is not polite, courteous or reasonable about it.
Srednii wrote:A couple things here. First of all, the devs are the sole arbitrators on who and what is an exploit(er), and the I fail to recall the devs labelling people who dropped merchant after getting vendors as exploiters.
But they did, I don’t wand to dig up the link again... I have done so several times. Look throe the post on the game guide forum, there is a ole one (really old) where a SoE official say "that even though in is not something they are banning people for it is still an exploit, and that the topic will be locked.
Exploiters will always exploit, just think of how many resources SoE uses on hunting down and ending duping bugs, or people who exploit any other number of systems, doubles slicing, un serialised krayt tissues, the old walk under ground so people can shoot back at you, and so on... You know they all have something in common, the code of the game worked in an unintentional way that allowed people to do something they should no be able to, hence why the users was exploiters.
We as merchants are left with a choice of how to handle the people that come here and ask, and that keep coming new people asking.
1) Do nothing. Simply ignore thair posts. However, we all know that there are people out there who will gladly post how our skills can be used with out the investment. When unchallenged more and more people will start to abuse our skills, and they will definitely tell thair friends. A lie that stand unchallenged become the truth.
2) Be polite. Tell them that it is unfair to thoughts of us that keep the skills that, they keep the benefit after dropping them. We can then hope they listen, but to be honest we know most will answer "then you should drop the too". Moreover, they will then go tell thair friends how to save 14+ skill points. And how many times can you se that and not grow angry, even more so when the other exploiters come in and add how easy it is and useful thoughts extra skill points is elsewhere.
3) Be aggressive. Tell the people who come here and ask or just read the topics, that doing so is an exploit, and that they are jerks if they use it. While most will still use the exploit we can hope they at least feel ashamed enough about it that they do not spread it further, and that some of though that advocate this exploit grow tired of posting here. It wound stop the exploiting, but it might slow it down.
If you want to make an effective argument, Dingo, don't say things like, "Anyone with half a brain will agree with me," or, "Anyone who's reasonable will see my point." Those arepoor forms of arguing/debating/presenting your argument (and they hurt that argument) as they are passive-aggressive. Who wants to be called an idiot before they even open their mouth?
DingoBoi wrote:
DND_Cas wrote:
Dingo,
Work with the system instead of working against it and you'll be fine.
Flaming your correspondent gets you know where as people are going to defend him/her. Also your correspondent brings the good ideas to the devs so your cutting off your nose to spite your face is a little pointless.
Message Edited by DND_Cas on 09-04-2004 12:32 AM
I've never flamed doc and I never will. I respect him utterly for his dedication and commitment to this profession.Even if i ever did actually really disagree with him, I wouldn't flame him. He argues his points by reasons and logic and doesn'tstart thead topics titiled "merchant sucks".
He is constrained by his position in posting how he really feels.. and is required to be a 'moderater'. I am not. I can freely state exactly how I feel... and I do so. Love me or hate me.. doesn't matter... what I say is the true and proper way things should be.. people who disagree with me advocate exploiting or the elimination of the3 merchant profession.
Please reread this line:
people who disagree with me advocate exploiting or the elimination of the3 merchant profession.
This a clear and obvious to anyone with half a brain. It's up to you to decide if you are on the exploiter side or the merchant side.
DingoBoi wrote:
... what I say is the true and proper way things should be..(lmao, you're right, we all bow down to you oh great one. Ifonly we were all as perfect as you, the world wouldn't tilt on it's axis but would sit upright equal to your perfection)people who disagree with me advocate exploiting or the elimination of the3 merchant profession.
This a clear and obvious to anyone with half a brain. It's up to you to decide if you are on the exploiter side or the merchant side.
I disagree with you, guess I only have half a brain in your opinion, that's fine with me, but I definitely don't advocate exploiting or eliminating the merchant profession. Plain and simple, I disagree with you because I absolutely hate your EXPLOITERRRRZZZ!!!!calls every time someone tries to discuss the merchant profession - people play the game to have fun and to get the most out of the game in the way it was designed and created and they come here to discuss ways it could be made better - ifothers use the system in a way that is unintended, let SOE play police man, period. If you don't like the way a profession is being "abused", write to SOE and let them know, but don't follow folks around screaming at them to quit cheating.
I challenge you to make a useful post, not one like this thread defending your base and 1-sided opinions and calling those who disagree with you "idiots with only half a brain", but by bringing new ideas to the table that would help to improve the merchant profession. This idea would require more than defining the current parameters of what a "merchant" is - I'm challenging you to expand upon the current ideas that merchant was created in orderto make the profession better, not scream "EXPLOIT EXPLOIT EXPLOIT /throw eggs", because you see someone's actions as wrong.
Example: SWG would be improved if it were more skill-based, instead of the current profession-based system. There are many "professions" in the game that bring only functional skills to the table. Instead of creating an entire profession around the bounty hunter profession, with a "mastery" level bounty hunter having skill points invested in pistols, carbines, lightining cannon and investigation, allow anyonewith combat skillswho wishes to hunt jedi to learn the investigation line. This would allow players who use rifles to still be bounty hunters. A system like this would allow for a player who wishes to learn the skill of feign death, but wishes to be a carbineer, the option of learning feign death without having to learn unnecessary pistol skills. A system like this, applied to merchant, would allow a merchant who wants to increase their vendor item count to invest skill points in vendor item count, without having to waste skill points in shop sign customization and special bazaar auctions. This system might allow those merchants who wish be pure resellers the ability to have their merchants be loaded by others, but for a percentage of final profits to be taken by the merchant who spent the skill points to obtain the vendor in the first place.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=merchant&message.id=47095&jump=true
I will stay out of this one, but only so thoughts of you that are so against calling it an exploit can show me how effective you way is. Let be se you convince this one to not exploit our profession.