Merchant Archive
Thread: Do away with Merchant, but let Crafters keep it
OckVofad wrote:
The Merchant profession in my mind is not functioning as a true profession it is basically a skill point sink for crafters. I think the original intension was to have Merchants sell elite crafters wares. There was a thread on this a few weeks ago asking if anyone did this and the majority said no.
Merchant is a mess. In fact, it is contributing to making the whole crafting side of the game a mess. I fully support the idea of removing the merchant profession - it has to be out of all professions in the game, the largest number of skill points for least amount of gain. Do you really think 14sp should be used up so you can dress your vendors? Also, I can't think of any other profession in the game that does not require you to actually do anything to get xp - I mean dancers/musicians can macro their xp, but it still requries them to be logged in. If Merchant is meant to operate in the manner some have described in this thread - the xp system needs to be revised. Namely, only get xp when people visit or buy things from your vendor.
I understand the problem in removing merchant - namely that doctors and other "non-crafters" won't have vendors. But it's pointless to have an entire profession that allows you to actually SELL the goods that you create. If there was a large market of people who were just merchants out there willing to take ones' goods and sell them, I'd agree - and whilst these people do exist, it's rare - and if it doesn't work in practice, it should be rethought.
Having Merchant forces crafters into being totally artisans or totally fighters - this is not a fair compromise - the game has so much to offer, yet you're being forced into playing only one side.
More to the point, instead of rationally arguing your point, you jumped on the original poster as if it's "All for him". I hate to break it to you, his opinion is a widely held one amongst crafters and the general player community - you need to address it, not attack it. If there are no rational arguments against his argument then you have lost the argument.
One of the big problems this game has (at least on the populated servers), is the price of ordinary items - especially for new players. I can only think this is at least partly because there is not enough product on the servers to bring the prices down. Not enough product = not even crafters. We need more crafters, and if crafters didn't have to spend a lot of their sp on being able to actually sell their products then perhaps we'd have more of them, and in turn all be better off.
Furthermore:
1. Why is it you can take merchant, make your vendors then drop merchant and keep them (yes I realise this is a long standing feature that is on your "top issues list")
2. Why should buyers be forced to drive around 20 vendors till they find one with even anything on them, let alone the product they want - why can't there be a global search function - this would make the market more competitive, and you would still get "drive by shopping" - as long as you had good product at a good price. Location would still matter - meaning you still have barriers to new entrants, which is all that established crafters seem to care about these days.
3. Merchant XP makes many vendors empty - and contributes to the oft-maligned problem of people spamming an empty vendor
Most importantly. not having a more open system of selling goods wastes valuable game time for everyone.
Smurfwalker wrote:
I agree with the original poster.
Merchant is a mess. In fact, it is contributing to making the whole crafting side of the game a mess. I fully support the idea of removing the merchant profession - it has to be out of all professions in the game, the largest number of skill points for least amount of gain. Do you really think 14sp should be used up so you can dress your vendors? Also, I can't think of any other profession in the game that does not require you to actually do anything to get xp - I mean dancers/musicians can macro their xp, but it still requries them to be logged in. If Merchant is meant to operate in the manner some have described in this thread - the xp system needs to be revised. Namely, only get xp when people visit or buy things from your vendor.
I understand the problem in removing merchant - namely that doctors and other "non-crafters" won't have vendors. But it's pointless to have an entire profession that allows you to actually SELL the goods that you create. If there was a large market of people who were just merchants out there willing to take ones' goods and sell them, I'd agree - and whilst these people do exist, it's rare - and if it doesn't work in practice, it should be rethought.
Having Merchant forces crafters into being totally artisans or totally fighters - this is not a fair compromise - the game has so much to offer, yet you're being forced into playing only one side.
More to the point, instead of rationally arguing your point, you jumped on the original poster as if it's "All for him". I hate to break it to you, his opinion is a widely held one amongst crafters and the general player community - you need to address it, not attack it. If there are no rational arguments against his argument then you have lost the argument.
One of the big problems this game has (at least on the populated servers), is the price of ordinary items - especially for new players. I can only think this is at least partly because there is not enough product on the servers to bring the prices down. Not enough product = not even crafters. We need more crafters, and if crafters didn't have to spend a lot of their sp on being able to actually sell their products then perhaps we'd have more of them, and in turn all be better off.
Furthermore:
1. Why is it you can take merchant, make your vendors then drop merchant and keep them (yes I realise this is a long standing feature that is on your "top issues list")
2. Why should buyers be forced to drive around 20 vendors till they find one with even anything on them, let alone the product they want - why can't there be a global search function - this would make the market more competitive, and you would still get "drive by shopping" - as long as you had good product at a good price. Location would still matter - meaning you still have barriers to new entrants, which is all that established crafters seem to care about these days.
3. Merchant XP makes many vendors empty - and contributes to the oft-maligned problem of people spamming an empty vendor
Most importantly. not having a more open system of selling goods wastes valuable game time for everyone.
/throw every egg that was ever made since the beginning of time
Andymantium wrote:/throw every egg that was ever made since the beginning of time
Yet again proving the maturity of posters in this forum.
Perhaps you'd like to take another go at explaining why you think the idea is a bad one?
Smurfwalker wrote:
Yet again proving the maturity of posters in this forum.
Perhaps you'd like to take another go at explaining why you think the idea is a bad one?
I'll take a stab at it if you don't mind ?
Smurfwalker wrote:
I agree with the original poster.
Ok.
Merchant is a mess. In fact, it is contributing to making the whole crafting side of the game a mess. I fully support the idea of removing the merchant profession .it has to be out of all professions in the game, the largest number of skill points for least amount of gain. Do you really think 14sp should be used up so you can dress your vendors? Also, I can't think of any other profession in the game that does not require you to actually do anything to get xp - I mean dancers/musicians can macro their xp, but it still requries them to be logged in. If Merchant is meant to operate in the manner some have described in this thread - the xp system needs to be revised. Namely, only get xp when people visit or buy things from your vendor.
Hmm.. Last time I looked my Master Ranger on Scylla had 28sp invested in camps which are no-longer required since people complained about not being able to call their bikes and pets in the wild, andthey got that taken out of the game.. Loved that update! Made me feel real special! Howabout the 28sp invested in trapping which I never use and find a complete waste of SP.. Some people disagreed about trapping being useless, of course it is my own personal opinion, as your appraisal of clothing vendors is personal opinion.. Every profession has areas which need revising, if they didn't they would all be perfect, the solution is to fix and progress them not nuke them and distribute the burnt remains to other professions!
I understand the problem in removing merchant - namely that doctors and other "non-crafters" won't have vendors. But it's pointless to have an entire profession that allows you to actually SELL the goods that you create. If there was a large market of people who were just merchants out there willing to take ones' goods and sell them, I'd agree - and whilst these people do exist, it's rare - and if it doesn't work in practice, it should be rethought.
One of the problems with removing merchant might be the fact I have a Master Merchant title above my head and I don't want you to, that would have been a good place to start.. You stepped up a gear over where you should be, people don't have to be a merchant to sell goods as you say.. They can be an artisan with business III and still have a vendor.. If people can't afford to invest SP into that line first and then progress to merchant then it's not really an issue with merchant, it's an issue with Artisan, because you can't afford the SP for the stem profession.. If you remove the Merchant profession completely from the debate you would still need to putSP into artisan for a vendor.
Having Merchant forces crafters into being totally artisans or totally fighters - this is not a fair compromise - the game has so much to offer, yet you're being forced into playing only one side.
Wrong! You don't have to be totally a fighter or totally a crafter at all. I could give you countless demonstrations of how crafting and combat can be combined but I really don't want to waste my time going over that again, last time I tried the only response was " It wouldn't work " , no actual reason other than " No, your wrong ".. Instead of making a generalisation like that provide an example of what you are saying, because in my eyes that problem does not exsist.
One of the big problems this game has (at least on the populated servers), is the price of ordinary items - especially for new players. I can only think this is at least partly because there is not enough product on the servers to bring the prices down. Not enough product = not even crafters. We need more crafters, and if crafters didn't have to spend a lot of their sp on being able to actually sell their products then perhaps we'd have more of them, and in turn all be better off.
Wrong again! I know thatin ourVillage onTalus (Radiant) we don't have any of the issues which you are talking about.. I should know.. I'm the mayor,the merchant, and the chef. The problems you mention will also vary server to server and planet to planet... Personally I have never had a problem with pricing or finding something which I need, sometimes I have to go searching for it but that's part of the game, I've played on six different servers I think and currently have fivedifferent characters...Prices are made by the player.. Also not every player wants to be a crafter, in fact some people playing this game would probably do anything else but craft.. And, once again you don't need to be a merchant to sell your wares.
( Snip answered as best I could )
Furthermore:
1. Does it look like we have a copy of the source code ...?
2. On the list..Nuff said.
3. People make empty vendors, people spam them, people are the problem not the profession.
Ok , so ..
:: A little challenge ::
I am speaking as someone on your side of the fence here, if they destroyed merchant and pumped all of those skills into Artisan (0/4/0/4)and Chef (up to Master)I would be over the moon because I would have 63SP i didn't have before! However that wouldn't please everyone, what about DE, Architect, Weaponsmith, Armoursmith, Tailor, Medic, Doctor, Scout, Ranger and Bio-engineer..? Even though a couple of those don't get vendors currently you could bet that if merchant was split they would want a piece of the action.. So! Two choices, if you want to progress this "Argument" any further because I'm having trouble understanding what the issues and intentionsare here.
1 ) The SP I have invested in this profession gives me all of my skills in merchant, therefore I keep the skills and we keep the profession, everything stays the same and we all go and do something more productive than this thread.
Or..
2 ) Discuss how our Profession will be removed and the skills placed within reach of the 63SP I had invested in Master Merchant, if I cannot regain all of the skills which I had in merchant by spending the 63SP I have free then I would not be happy with the change.. I want all of the skills I currently have. I am a Chef(Master) / Artisan (0/4/4/4) / Politician(3/2/2/3) / Tailor (0/2/2/0)so take the Merchant (Master) 63SP and tell me a logical way to put all of those skills in reach of my character andevery other crafting profession in the game which could have SP invested in merchant.. Not only that please explain tome how you will address the player base to tell them that a profession which they personally may loveis being destroyed and distributed over these other professions, and what reason you would give. Oh, and while your doing this realise that probably every merchant in here will be firing back at everything you post.
Message Edited by BountyBlunter on 07-12-2004 10:31 AM
You come to the merchant forum and ask for the profession to be removed. The notion assumes that nobody enjoys the profession or gains value from it. Seriously, what kind of response did you expect by posting that here?
Smurfwalker wrote:
Yet again proving the maturity of posters in this forum.
Andymantium wrote:
/throw every egg that was ever made since the beginning of time
Perhaps you'd like to take another go at explaining why you think the idea is a bad one?