Merchant Archive
Thread: You folks don't understand
Redfenril
Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:18 am
#14
Duckfat wrote:
Redfenril wrote:This is from a Non-Merchant and a pure combatant.The Vendor nerf is acceptable. While the cap isn't the rest is, and the need for a cap is.Take RL for example. Each and every one of you have seen how much a store puts up on sale, right? Well, you're not going to find unlimited numbers of inventory in one shop.Think of the nerf as "shelves" for your business. There's only so much you can put on a shelf. If you don't have room, tuck the surplus away to your storage area and wait until that vendor is empty before restocking it.The truth is guys, that if you want to start a business, there's only so many items you can put up on the shelves for sale.If you plan to make a whole load of merchandise, but can't due to the nerf, tuck it away in your storage area. If you find your storage area is getting a wee full, and revenue is down the crapper, then you got to rethink your business plan.This is from an Accountant.Right now, listen to your Merchant Corospondant for solutions. A Developer will make an appearance once they find out that the nerf has caused merchants to go sour towards themAnd one thing I will make clear, unlimited vendors simply do not exist in the real world. If you cannot accept that in the game, quit. Just as simple as that.OMFG you have got to be kidding me. First off like many people have already stated this is not RL this is a damned game that people would like to enjoy playing without getting screwed over almost every patch. Secondly if you want to talk real life try this.A person in real life can do all of these things:Start a business makingweapons from factories(For arguements sake we will say he sells alot ofquality weapons and thus is a master weaponsmith)Go out and open a store to sell these things(For arguements sake we will say that he has many stores and thus is a master merchant)Go out and hunt to test these weapons(For arguements sake we will say he has been rifle hunting all his life and thus is a master rifleman)Now add the fact that he is at least a novice scout (cleans/cooks whatever he kills, knows how to camp, sets traps, and can negotiate whatever terrain he hunts in), and a novice medic (knows everything he needs to know for first aid while out hunting), and a novice entertainer (can play various instruments as a hobby).You think he has enough skill points to do that in the game? According to your arguement he should since he can do it in real life.Oh and lastly to get really into destroying your arguement. In real life you may not be able to stock an unlimited supply of things in one store but I will guarantee you can find a store that sells thousands of different items and stocks hundreds of each of them. Then multiply that by the amount of stores they have around the country and see how stupid this limit is according to real life.
Thousands of items. You did not say UNLIMITED.
And you should've read the whole post, I said the cap was irrational and should be upped. But I do believe there should be a cap
Baelin_Radiant
Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:38 am
#15
Redfenril wrote:
...
You are really not thinking through what you are saying. Do you want to have to travel much greater distances for vendors only to find them out of stock? Whether you are really trying to picture this scenario or not, it will happen. Don't try to apply RL logistics to this problem. If you are going to insist on doing so, then apply the old U.S.S.R. economy system. Do you want to wait in line for a loaf of bread and a roll of toilet paper? Because that is what a system based on sharply controlled and limited product release produces.
I sincerely hope you don't win this argument. Granted, it would be somewhat gratifying if these changes did go through for me to be able to point at you and laugh, "Ha Ha! You got what you asked for." But then, I'd be suffering right there with you.
DarkDeathDude
Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:49 am
#16
Unlimited stocks on shelves dont exist in RL, but what about internet shopping, they have no shelves at all!
and again this is a GAME not real life
Most shops have a limited size in thier shop, but they also have huge warehouses where they can stock a ton of items ready to refill the shelves again instantly
Gyopi
Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:53 am
#17
SeaRaptor wrote:The permutations of potential tailor items goes well into the THOUSANDS. And they expect us to make do with a hundred items per vendor?Bzzzt. You have torpedoed the "player run" economy with what essentially amounts to government regulation. Thanks for playing.
Although no one in their right mind would make them all, there are over 65000 different color combinations for the decorative vest alone!
VarnaxDespin
Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:01 am
#18
Redfenril wrote:
This is from a Non-Merchant and a pure combatant.
The Vendor nerf is acceptable. While the cap isn't the rest is, and the need for a cap is.
Take RL for example. Each and every one of you have seen how much a store puts up on sale, right? Well, you're not going to find unlimited numbers of inventory in one shop.
Think of the nerf as "shelves" for your business. There's only so much you can put on a shelf. If you don't have room, tuck the surplus away to your storage area and wait until that vendor is empty before restocking it.
The truth is guys, that if you want to start a business, there's only so many items you can put up on the shelves for sale.
If you plan to make a whole load of merchandise, but can't due to the nerf, tuck it away in your storage area. If you find your storage area is getting a wee full, and revenue is down the crapper, then you got to rethink your business plan.
This is from an Accountant.
Right now, listen to your Merchant Corospondant for solutions. A Developer will make an appearance once they find out that the nerf has caused merchants to go sour towards them
And one thing I will make clear, unlimited vendors simply do not exist in the real world. If you cannot accept that in the game, quit. Just as simple as that.
I think it is you sir that miss the point... how many vendors have to stumbled arcoss that currently stock an unlimited number of items? My guess is none 
While theoretically the number of items on a vendor has no current limit, we.. merchants are limited already by something called the 30day drop off....if I spend 8 hours of RL time puting 20k identical items up on my vendor...then most likely 30 days from now I am going to have 15k+ "item auction unsuccessful" emails to delete and I am going to have to sepnd another 6 hours of my time restocking those items...
Plain and simple even a powergamer does not want to waste hours of thier time that they could use playing this game, adding extra items to an archaic vendor system.
We merchants control ourselves and place as many items as we think is necessary to maintain a selection...but we do not overstock by massive amounts because we dont want to waste hours of our time restocking those items. In other words....we are limited...by ourselves.
Ryche_Mykola
Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:04 am
#19
Redfenril wrote:
This is from a Non-Merchant and a pure combatant.
The Vendor nerf is acceptable. While the cap isn't the rest is, and the need for a cap is.
Take RL for example. Each and every one of you have seen how much a store puts up on sale, right? Well, you're not going to find unlimited numbers of inventory in one shop.
Think of the nerf as "shelves" for your business. There's only so much you can put on a shelf. If you don't have room, tuck the surplus away to your storage area and wait until that vendor is empty before restocking it.
The truth is guys, that if you want to start a business, there's only so many items you can put up on the shelves for sale.
If you plan to make alot merchandise, but can't due to the nerf, tuck it away in your storage area. If you find your storage area is getting a wee full, and revenue is down the crapper, then you got to rethink your business plan.
This is from an Accountant.
Right now, listen to your Merchant Corospondant for solutions. A Developer will make an appearance once they find out that the nerf has caused merchants to go sour towards them
And one thing I will make clear, unlimited vendors simply do not exist in the real world. If you cannot accept that in the game, quit. Just as simple as that.
Your analogy is quite poor. A better one would be grocery shopping:
You go to a store - They specialize in bread, ran out of stock, they only had 100 loaves for a community of 3000.
Go to another store - You get bread.
Travel around looking for a store that specializes in lunch meats now.
Then you have to travel around looking for a store that specializes in Mayonaisse/mustard..........whatever.
Travel around looking for a store that specializes iin soft drinks, you have to do custom orders, so you need to send a mail and put your order in, person says he'll deliver in 3 days, busy doing some hunting and things going on in real Life.
See what a pain in the ass its gonna be?
Duckfat
Tue Aug 10, 2004 1:17 pm
#20
Redfenril wrote:
Duckfat wrote:
Redfenril wrote:
This is from a Non-Merchant and a pure combatant.
The Vendor nerf is acceptable. While the cap isn't the rest is, and the need for a cap is.
Take RL for example. Each and every one of you have seen how much a store puts up on sale, right? Well, you're not going to find unlimited numbers of inventory in one shop.
Think of the nerf as "shelves" for your business. There's only so much you can put on a shelf. If you don't have room, tuck the surplus away to your storage area and wait until that vendor is empty before restocking it.
The truth is guys, that if you want to start a business, there's only so many items you can put up on the shelves for sale.
If you plan to make a whole load of merchandise, but can't due to the nerf, tuck it away in your storage area. If you find your storage area is getting a wee full, and revenue is down the crapper, then you got to rethink your business plan.
This is from an Accountant.
Right now, listen to your Merchant Corospondant for solutions. A Developer will make an appearance once they find out that the nerf has caused merchants to go sour towards them
And one thing I will make clear, unlimited vendors simply do not exist in the real world. If you cannot accept that in the game, quit. Just as simple as that.
OMFG you have got to be kidding me. First off like many people have already stated this is not RL this is a damned game that people would like to enjoy playing without getting screwed over almost every patch. Secondly if you want to talk real life try this.
A person in real life can do all of these things:
Start a business makingweapons from factories
(For arguements sake we will say he sells alot ofquality weapons and thus is a master weaponsmith)
Go out and open a store to sell these things
(For arguements sake we will say that he has many stores and thus is a master merchant)
Go out and hunt to test these weapons
(For arguements sake we will say he has been rifle hunting all his life and thus is a master rifleman)
Now add the fact that he is at least a novice scout (cleans/cooks whatever he kills, knows how to camp, sets traps, and can negotiate whatever terrain he hunts in), and a novice medic (knows everything he needs to know for first aid while out hunting), and a novice entertainer (can play various instruments as a hobby).
You think he has enough skill points to do that in the game? According to your arguement he should since he can do it in real life.
Oh and lastly to get really into destroying your arguement. In real life you may not be able to stock an unlimited supply of things in one store but I will guarantee you can find a store that sells thousands of different items and stocks hundreds of each of them. Then multiply that by the amount of stores they have around the country and see how stupid this limit is according to real life.
Thousands of items. You did not say UNLIMITED.
And you should've read the whole post, I said the cap was irrational and should be upped. But I do believe there should be a cap
I guess you still dont get it. 1000 different items with 100 of each item in stock at say 50 different stores is basically unlimited. Do I really need to say the word unlimited for you to understand? You know a cap of 9 trillion items is not technically unlimited but for some purposes it is considered practically unlimited. Do you see a government agency IRL that tells the store hey you cant build a store that big because it will break our item cap? NO you dont because there is no cap! The only thing that a vendor should be limited by is the amount that the seller wishes to stop stocking at and not some arbitrary cap.
Oh and you should read your own post. I read the whole thing and there is one line that you talk about upping the cap. The rest (everything between the two highlighted parts that specifically point to things IRL) makes up the majority of the post and is all about comparing this game to how it is IRL. And now that you mention it I would like to further tear your post apart, especially the last highlighted part. I guess you are an accountant and not an optometrist because you sure have no clue about making anything clearer for anyone. Because like I said before there are no limits that I know of IRL. If a seller thinks his store is to small he gets a bigger one or opens another store or both. Soon he can have a whole chain of stores as long as he can afford it. So according to your logic we should be able to do the same with vendors. I should be able to place a vendor tent anywhere I want as long as I am willing to keep the maintenance paid. Therefore no cap other than what I can afford and definately not a cap by some third party that would ruin my business.
Oh and you should just quit making these dumb statements. From the looks of the last part that is highlighted it seems that is your solution to adversity. I prefer to fight against adversity but I guess to each his own.
Orla1
Tue Aug 10, 2004 1:32 pm
#21
You made a good point Redfenril...you speak from a NON merchant point of view. Funny how the Merchants ALL feel the same...coming from the experience of the game as it has been set up for a year for Merchants andCrafters.. Oh and many customers too if you read all the Merchants Forums over the last couple of days. But then, this is just an observation on my part. I could be wrong.
LuriAsmyr
Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:15 pm
#22
Redfenril wrote:This is from a Non-Merchant and a pure combatant.
Go away. You have absolutely no place telling the Merchants "Everything will be fine!" if you have no experience with the profession. As for your "Think of stores in real-life..." argument, this is a video game. Balance and FUN are infinitely more important than realism.
Torael
Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:39 pm
#24
Iannyen wrote:
What storage area?
This man's right. But, even if storage was increased or something, the cap would still be unacceptable in its current form; many of us simply sell too fast. We'd have to restock daily at a minimum, more than once a day being quite a bit more likely.
speardancer
Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:46 pm
#25
Redfenril wrote:This is from a Non-Merchant and a pure combatant.The Vendor nerf is acceptable. While the cap isn't the rest is, and the need for a cap is.Take RL for example. Each and every one of you have seen how much a store puts up on sale, right? Well, you're not going to find unlimited numbers of inventory in one shop.Think of the nerf as "shelves" for your business. There's only so much you can put on a shelf. If you don't have room, tuck the surplus away to your storage area and wait until that vendor is empty before restocking it.The truth is guys, that if you want to start a business, there's only so many items you can put up on the shelves for sale.If you plan to make a whole load of merchandise, but can't due to the nerf, tuck it away in your storage area. If you find your storage area is getting a wee full, and revenue is down the crapper, then you got to rethink your business plan.This is from an Accountant.Right now, listen to your Merchant Corospondant for solutions. A Developer will make an appearance once they find out that the nerf has caused merchants to go sour towards themAnd one thing I will make clear, unlimited vendors simply do not exist in the real world. If you cannot accept that in the game, quit. Just as simple as that.
OK, then let's look at a real world example : walmart. think we can consider them a master merchant level?
Imagine what it would look like if they only had 660 items in stock? I think most mom and pop stores have more than 660 items in stock at any given time.
Also, in the real world, you can plan your purchaces of raw materials. Here in game, we have to grab good quality materials when they come in, and hoard them until they're either gone, or more of the same or better quality come in.
There's alot of factors you have not considered in your example. You assume there's some form of storage for our backstock. There isn't.
Your reasoning is completely invalid within the economic model we have to work in.
joined42904
Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:51 pm
#26
WuffFeir,
I don't think your comparison is apt at all. SOE is not telling you how many items you may sell. They are only telling you how many distinct items (which at this point include crates and backpacks) may be on your vendor at any one point in time. Do you not see a difference? You could restock the vendor 5 times a day if there is enough demand. You could also sell to another merchant at wholesale to generate more vendor space for yourself. You could even sell things in person. No limit on what you can sell whatsoever. Just a limit on the physical goods (not electronic data such as I-Tunes)...well at least for game purposes it's physical although it's in fact just data like everything else in the game except he people behind the toons...that you can stock in your shop on your vendors at any point in time. Sounds like a reasonable limitation to me.