Merchant Archive
Thread: Keep merchant as a profession, but not required to have vendors.
Bamboozle wrote:
Sigrun wrote:
Don't patronize me please.
Then stop whining?
Oh please.
I'm not the one complaining that I'm losing skills that I haven't earned or no longer have. YOU are. So, yes, please stop whining.
The entire SWG economy depends on vendors. Letting players have vendors for a year, then suddenly changing things so that those who want to keep them must drop their other professions to get one they don't want, is not a good idea.
Nerfs are seldom a good idea, most especially when the devsneglect toinform the players WHY they're happening.
However, taking vendors away from those without the skills to run them really isn't so much a nerf as it is fixing an oversight. What if people could throw Master CM level poisons after dropping all of CM? If they could effectively Eyeshot after dropping BH? If they could control a full-grown Rancor (or worse) after dropping Creature Handler? Would you stand for all of those things continuing, just because they lasted in retail for some amount of time? Would that be a good thing for the game?
Not very good examples, really. The SWG economy isn't built around eyeshot and rancors.
Right. And that's what combatants do - they eyeshot Rancors. Artisans makestuff. Merchants sell stuff. Artisans don't eyeshot rancors. Combatants don't make stuff. They might sell stuff from time to time and for that, the bazaar or working with a Merchant are reasonable alternatives.
Just like when that mean, nasty spawn of Pharleks surrounds my harvesters or worse, a Kimo guards them, I get a combatant to help me clear it.
SW:G is also a *SKILLS BASED* game. You get to do stuff based on your current skill set. I've gone through something like 18 professions. There are PLENTY of things that I used to be able to do that I cannot do now, just as you used to be able to place vendors but cannot do sonow. I'm not complaining that I can no longer control my uber BE super-pig, or even draw it from my datapad. I'm not complaining that I can no longer throw poisons in combat. I'm not even complaining that I can no longer make a cloak.
Why are you complaining that you can't use skills from a class you've long since dropped?
Doing this, but at the same time moving all merchant skills to the artisan business tree would be a compromise I think most people could accept.
And when they nerf Combat Medic, would it be acceptable to people to move all those skills into the Medic Pharmacology tree? When they nerfed Creature Handler, should they have moved all those skills into the Scout Harvesting branch?
If they could have always used combat medic skills, and their other professions could not function without those skills, then yes. But again, not very good exemplification I think.
There is a difference between "not functioning" and "being inconvenient". I think you have the two confused.
Sigrun wrote:
Don't patronize me please.
Then stop whining?
Oh please.
I'm not the one complaining that I'm losing skills that I haven't earned or no longer have. YOU are. So, yes, please stop whining.
I'm not. I'm a 3444 merchant. Calling people whiners because they disagree with you is not sound argumentation, nor is it a display of good manners.
The entire SWG economy depends on vendors. Letting players have vendors for a year, then suddenly changing things so that those who want to keep them must drop their other professions to get one they don't want, is not a good idea.
Nerfs are seldom a good idea, most especially when the devsneglect toinform the players WHY they're happening.
However, taking vendors away from those without the skills to run them really isn't so much a nerf as it is fixing an oversight. What if people could throw Master CM level poisons after dropping all of CM? If they could effectively Eyeshot after dropping BH? If they could control a full-grown Rancor (or worse) after dropping Creature Handler? Would you stand for all of those things continuing, just because they lasted in retail for some amount of time? Would that be a good thing for the game?
Not very good examples, really. The SWG economy isn't built around eyeshot and rancors.
Right. And that's what combatants do - they eyeshot Rancors. Artisans makestuff. Merchants sell stuff. Artisans don't eyeshot rancors. Combatants don't make stuff. They might sell stuff from time to time and for that, the bazaar or working with a Merchant are reasonable alternatives.
Just like when that mean, nasty spawn of Pharleks surrounds my harvesters or worse, a Kimo guards them, I get a combatant to help me clear it.
SW:G is also a *SKILLS BASED* game. You get to do stuff based on your current skill set. I've gone through something like 18 professions. There are PLENTY of things that I used to be able to do that I cannot do now, just as you used to be able to place vendors but cannot do sonow. I'm not complaining that I can no longer control my uber BE super-pig, or even draw it from my datapad. I'm not complaining that I can no longer throw poisons in combat. I'm not even complaining that I can no longer make a cloak.
Why are you complaining that you can't use skills from a class you've long since dropped?
I haven't dropped it. I would like to though, because I don't think the class is worth the amount of skill points spent.
Are you trying to get your post count up? Now you've said the same thing in three posts, and frankly, I'm getting tired of doing the same. Please see my previous replies.
Doing this, but at the same time moving all merchant skills to the artisan business tree would be a compromise I think most people could accept.
And when they nerf Combat Medic, would it be acceptable to people to move all those skills into the Medic Pharmacology tree? When they nerfed Creature Handler, should they have moved all those skills into the Scout Harvesting branch?
If they could have always used combat medic skills, and their other professions could not function without those skills, then yes. But again, not very good exemplification I think.
There is a difference between "not functioning" and "being inconvenient". I think you have the two confused.
I do not. Crafters should be able to sell their merchandise. Yes, I know, you think they should find a merchant who can sell their things for them and make a profit doing nothing, but in my opinion, it won't be like that. I think you will see most crafters cursing SOE, then dropping their other professions to get merchant. Either that or they will open secondary accounts that can keep merchant skills.
I'm sure SOE wouldn't mind the latter, but I don't think it would make any players happier.
ofim wrote:
Sigrun wrote:
Sounds good.
Now I want the following, too:
- The ability to wield a Lightsaber and Force powers without becoming a Jedi.
- The ability to throw poisons (good ones!) without having to grind Combat Medic.
- The ability to buff myself and heal my wounds without having to grind Doctor.
- The ability to enhance myself through meditation without havingto grind TKA.
- The ability to spam Eyeshot without having to grind Bounty Hunter.
- And the ability to Conceal Shot with a T-21 without having to grind Rifleman.
When I can do all that as a Master Weaponsmith / Master Artisan / Master Merchant, you can have your vendor.
Well the problem is that Merchant,
#1- Takes no skill to master
#2-Takes no money (IE resources/armor/weapons) to master
#3-You pretty much do nothing to master it, it's just a matter of time
I'll even go one better, how about we add a "Looter" class to the game so that combat classes have to waste skill points to loot things off the things they kill. Sound stupid enough for you to get it?
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Ah spoken from someone with master WS and TKA "arse kicker" in their signature. You want to make weapons and sell them without having to give up your combat profession. I have no sympathy for you. Make up your mind. Either you are a legit merchant of weapons OR you like to engage in combat. You can still do both but the changes will force you to decide on either dedicating your time making your weapons and selling them or go "punch toads". In which case you can still keep you WS skills and make weapons on a more limited basis and sell to a limited customer base and still have time to "punch toads". Your choice.
ofim wrote:
Well the problem is that Merchant,
#1- Takes no skill to master
#2-Takes no money (IE resources/armor/weapons) to master
#3-You pretty much do nothing to master it, it's just a matter of time
I'll even go one better, how about we add a "Looter" class to the game so that combat classes have to waste skill points to loot things off the things they kill. Sound stupid enough for you to get it?
Message Edited by ofim on 08-14-2004 10:15 AM
WrongI have merchant skills. I have the right to sell my crafted weapons for my self, and not have to deal with the "Fat Gas Station Attendant" Profession. Unlike you I spent alot of time, money, and skill to master Weapon Smith, I didn't sit on my ass some where waiting for some one to click on my vendor.
MaDuece wrote:
Ah spoken from someone with master WS and TKA "arse kicker" in their signature. You want to make weapons and sell them without having to give up your combat profession. I have no sympathy for you. Make up your mind. Either you are a legit merchant of weapons OR you like to engage in combat. You can still do both but the changes will force you to decide on either dedicating your time making your weapons and selling them or go "punch toads". In which case you can still keep you WS skills and make weapons on a more limited basis and sell to a limited customer base and still have time to "punch toads". Your choice.
ofim wrote:
Well the problem is that Merchant,
#1- Takes no skill to master
#2-Takes no money (IE resources/armor/weapons) to master
#3-You pretty much do nothing to master it, it's just a matter of time
I'll even go one better, how about we add a "Looter" class to the game so that combat classes have to waste skill points to loot things off the things they kill. Sound stupid enough for you to get it?
Message Edited by ofim on 08-14-2004 10:15 AM
Barris wrote:
Ofim, as someone told me once in one of my posts, you can't argue with these people. They are the hardcore merchants who think that people who were merchants at a time and dropped it have invalid opinions that don't count. Even though we did the same thing as them, we are wrong and don't know what we are talking about.
Yea you're right. I have no idea how anyone can be a "hard core" merchant as it realy requires nothing to master it, but to each thir own I guess.
Bamboozle wrote:See, now that wouldn't work. Those are meaningful professions that people actually enjoy.
.....
You seem to be implying that Master Merchant is a profession that people don't enjoy. If that is your intent than as a Master Merchant I must respectfully say you are incorrect. I am not the only merchant in the game that enjoys the profession. Who knows if GCW and or combat ever works some might enjoy that more but that does not mean that no one enjoys the profession of Merchant.
-Indene-
ofim wrote:
Comparing real life business to in-game business. Try to read the whole thing before replying.
There are NO real life issues that compare.
If you wanted to use real life arguements then I'd have to say that any rifleman with armor piercing rounds should be able to drop your TKM with 1 headshot.
MaDuece wrote:
ofim wrote:
Comparing real life business to in-game business. Try to read the whole thing before replying.
There are NO real life issues that compare.
If you wanted to use real life arguements then I'd have to say that any rifleman with armor piercing rounds should be able to drop your TKM with 1 headshot.
While alot of real life things don't have a place in a game, there is alot of real life principals that do have a place in-game.
ofim wrote:
MaDuece wrote:
ofim wrote:
Comparing real life business to in-game business. Try to read the whole thing before replying.
There are NO real life issues that compare.
If you wanted to use real life arguements then I'd have to say that any rifleman with armor piercing rounds should be able to drop your TKM with 1 headshot.
While alot of real life things don't have a place in a game, there is alot of real life principals that do have a place in-game.
Sure. I got no problems with that rifleman with armor piercing bullets killing you with one headshot. Do you?
MaDuece wrote:
ofim wrote:
MaDuece wrote:
ofim wrote:
Comparing real life business to in-game business. Try to read the whole thing before replying.
There are NO real life issues that compare.
If you wanted to use real life arguements then I'd have to say that any rifleman with armor piercing rounds should be able to drop your TKM with 1 headshot.
While alot of real life things don't have a place in a game, there is alot of real life principals that do have a place in-game.
Sure. I got no problems with that rifleman with armor piercing bullets killing you with one headshot. Do you?
As long as you don't have a problem with more critical failures due to low OQ meterials.
FYI, the in-game economy is based off of real life economic principals
Message Edited by ofim on 08-14-2004 01:41 PM