Merchant Archive
Thread: Some reasons why vendors should stay after you drop Merchant.
Name another profession that allows you to make millions while your at work or sleeping? Ohh wait you cant.Merchant isnt like any other profession so your analogies mean absolutely nothing.
Naufragus wrote:
it is a bad analogy.
I do not have to pay a fee to USE the flame thrower. I get he skill i can use the flame thrower.
In merchnat I get the skill and i have to PAY to use that skill. I have to PAY to advertise, i have to PAY to keep my vendor there. I have to PAY for ad barking.
What other profession CHARGES you to use the skills you have EARNED?
If i am PAYING for it then, not having the skill any more is no different than a still having it. Either way it is costing me money.
I disagree that it is a bad analogy.
They are both items you have to get a certain skill to use and they both have a cost to operate. The flamethrower's cost is much lower than the vendor I grant you, but there is still a cost. The cost is the price of the flamethrower, the cost of repair tools to keep it operating, and eventually the cost of replacing it with a new one. The vendor costs you too but that doesn't change the fact that you had to get a certain skill for the ability to create the vendor in the first place.
I assume from your other posts though that you think everyone should have access to a vendor and they shouldn't have to have any particular skill to have one? Is this your position?
basically....
at this point in the game i think merchant is pointless...the skills not worth that much... one vendor,4 vendors, it doesnt reallymatter. The products are more important. not all this window dressing.
my suggestion would be to just move the entire tree into the Artisan business line...most of the skills are of that calibre
vendors are basically for artisans to sell their wares. we are all shopkeepers...it works fine
people are just pushing for changes/improvemnets simply because the profession exists...they want to gate others to make being master merchant have more meaning for themselves and not really as any sort of improvement to the game...
but people have been saying the same things since july...most of us orginal merchants have dropped the skills. or learned that we didnt need them beacuse they didnt work and it had no ill effects (ad barking, map listing)
what bugs me about the attitudes i am seeing is you are all so focused on the vendors themsleves, no one seems in an uproar that people get to keep signs or ad barking.
but my basic premise today though is that i Pay a fee to use the vendor so i should keep the vendor. If i dont pay for the vendor when i have the skill i cant use it. so why shouldnt it work in reverse, if i dont have the skill but pay the fee i keep the vendor. If the vendor was the actual skill there would be no fee to use it.
Mind you i have the skill for all my vendors but gave every thing else up. I still have my signs and my fancy dressed aliens and ad barking and maybe even a planet listing.. no one seems bent out of shape about that.
"If i am PAYING for it then, not having the skill any more is no different than a still having it. Either way it is costing me money."
Wow this is one of the dumbest things I have EVER heard on these boards. A few credits in maintenacemake no difference because those vendors will make you millions daily if you know what your doing.
BoberFett wrote:
Weapons aren't forever, they wear out. So they do cost money when used.
Does just having you weapon equiped cost you a fee? Can people give you weapons? can you loot a weapon?
Do you pay extra if you use a special?
I earned the vendors i placed. I put 20K in credits in it...i should keep it whether or not i still have the skill...
I cant place new ones or delete or replace any that are currently there.
But if i am paying for the privilge of using my vendor why shouldnt i get to keep it.
Once again, Name one other profession that charges you money to use skills you have earned.
PLACING the vendor is the skill, not the vendor itself since i have to pay use it.
I'm sorry, but this threaddestroyed any shred of respect I had for the 'real' merchants - the guys crying for nerfs. Bunch of sorry kokgobblers if you ask me. I spent a solidmonth earning my vendors, and guess what : they are not hurting you one bit. One of the things I earned on my way to Master Merchant was the ability to PLACE VENDORS. Not KEEP VENDORS, CREATE AND PLACE VENDORS. That'sa benefit of being a merchant, to create and place a vendor.
Artisans CREATE things, and guess what, after they drop artisan the houses still remain. The houses still take maintenance to remain, but just because an artisan drops the class all his houses don't poof.
Droid'ies CREATE droids. Droids take maintenance (in the form of batteries) to continue their useful life, but when a droid'ie drops his class the droids remain.
I am ashamed to see what the 'real' merchants say on this issue, and I am ashamed to wear my Master Merchant title. Any class crying for nerfs is pretty much a bunch of cry-babies, losers, and whiners. What are you guys, twelve years old? Grow up, enjoy the game you play and leave other people alone. Cry for nerfs long enough and get the dev's attention ... that's when the 150 item limit for individual vendors and crap like that happens. How about a 25 item per vendor limit? That would destroy this class right quick, wouldn't it?
The cries for nerfs need to stop, or (trust me, I'm also an MCH) this class is going to be destroyed.
Glonoin wrote:
Cry for nerfs long enough and get the dev's attention ... that's when the 150 item limit for individual vendors and crap like that happens. How about a 25 item per vendor limit? That would destroy this class right quick, wouldn't it?
EXACTLY...
thats my fear...we get their attention and they come up with their own solutions and everyone gets screwed over and things are worse than they where.
the way things work here is that they wont make master merchant better...they will just make everything under it worse
Glonoin wrote:
I'm sorry, but this threaddestroyed any shred of respect I had for the 'real' merchants - the guys crying for nerfs. Bunch of sorry kokgobblers if you ask me. I spent a solidmonth earning my vendors, and guess what : they are not hurting you one bit. One of the things I earned on my way to Master Merchant was the ability to PLACE VENDORS. Not KEEP VENDORS, CREATE AND PLACE VENDORS. That'sa benefit of being a merchant, to create and place a vendor.
Artisans CREATE things, and guess what, after they drop artisan the houses still remain. The houses still take maintenance to remain, but just because an artisan drops the class all his houses don't poof.
Droid'ies CREATE droids. Droids take maintenance (in the form of batteries) to continue their useful life, but when a droid'ie drops his class the droids remain.
I am ashamed to see what the 'real' merchants say on this issue, and I am ashamed to wear my Master Merchant title. Any class crying for nerfs is pretty much a bunch of cry-babies, losers, and whiners. What are you guys, twelve years old? Grow up, enjoy the game you play and leave other people alone. Cry for nerfs long enough and get the dev's attention ... that's when the 150 item limit for individual vendors and crap like that happens. How about a 25 item per vendor limit? That would destroy this class right quick, wouldn't it?
The cries for nerfs need to stop, or (trust me, I'm also an MCH) this class is going to be destroyed.
I wish I could actually understand how people equate items that you can create and sell to other people with items that you can't sell to other people. If a vendor was a product that a merchant could "craft" and give or sell to someone else you could compare it to a droid. But it isn't. You don't really "craft" it at all it is provided to you without resources or schematics and you are allowed to use it. You can't trade it..you can't sell it you can't even give someone access to it (somethign we'd like to change one way or the other) equating it to a laser rifle is just not a valid comparison.
It is a tool. The tool is granted to merchants and those with Business III. There is a limit to the number of vendors you can have. A limit implies a useage right..not just a placement right otherwise why limit the number you can place? You dont' have a limit of the number of droids you can build. You don't have any limit on the number of laser rifles you can craft. But you do have a limit on the number of vendors you can HAVE! Not place.. you can place THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of them..but you can only have 6 at a time.. that is a usage limitation..people without merchant don't have any rights to use vendors. Just like I don't have any rights to use a slitherhorn.
why do we have fees to use vendors, ad barking and the map function. If it is a skill we have earned?
you can play that slitherhorn for free.
Remove all the fees and then we are like every other profession
Naufragus wrote:
why do we have fees to use vendors, ad barking and the map function. If it is a skill we have earned?
you can play that slitherhorn for free.
Remove all the fees and then we are like every other profession
We have fees for the same reason that resources shift around and playing a slitherhorn causes your action HAM to go down. It is a challenge to the profession. It doesn't invalidte the requirement to get the skill.
I'm sorry, but this threaddestroyed any shred of respect I had for the 'real' merchants - the guys crying for nerfs. Bunch of sorry kokgobblers if you ask me. I spent a solidmonth earning my vendors, and guess what : they are not hurting you one bit. One of the things I earned on my way to Master Merchant was the ability to PLACE VENDORS. Not KEEP VENDORS, CREATE AND PLACE VENDORS. That'sa benefit of being a merchant, to create and place a vendor.
THIS IS THE FRIGGIN LAST TIME IM GONNA REPOST THIS YOU IDIOTS.
5. Currently it is possible to give up practically all of your merchant
skills without having to give up the vendors that you received as a benefit
of those skills.
We would like to see some suggested changes that would address this
situation. We agree in principle that Merchant Skills should not be
surrendered without the loss of the benefits of those skills.
Artisans CREATE things, and guess what, after they drop artisan the houses still remain. The houses still take maintenance to remain, but just because an artisan drops the class all his houses don't poof.
Vendors and houses have nothing in common. Do you need skills to place a house? Does a house make you millions of credits while you sleep? NO so dont compare it to a vendor.
Droid'ies CREATE droids. Droids take maintenance (in the form of batteries) to continue their useful life, but when a droid'ie drops his class the droids remain.
Omg how many times do i need to repeat myself here. DROIDS ARE PRODUCTS MADE BY DROID ENGINEERS AND VENDORS ARE TOOLS GIVEN TO MERCHANTS TO SELL THINGS.
I am ashamed to see what the 'real' merchants say on this issue, and I am ashamed to wear my Master Merchant title. Any class crying for nerfs is pretty much a bunch of cry-babies, losers, and whiners. What are you guys, twelve years old? Grow up, enjoy the game you play and leave other people alone. Cry for nerfs long enough and get the dev's attention ... that's when the 150 item limit for individual vendors and crap like that happens. How about a 25 item per vendor limit? That would destroy this class right quick, wouldn't it?
You know what noob the morons who exploited caused the 150 item nerf. More vendors = more items in database = nerf GET IT?
I dont believe for a second your a master merchant. We are not crying for nerfs we are crying for FIXES and IMPROVEMENTSand PUNISHMENT FOR EXPLOITERS just like the droid engineers are crying to get droids fixed and jedi are crying to get jedi fixed.
I think that the concept that Vendors are somehow products needs to be clarified... They are not, they aretools. If I CREATE a Structure Crafting Tool, and then drop Artisan, guess what? I loose the ability to use an Artisan's tools. Vendors are tools used by the people who spent the skill points to use them. No one is suggesting that all the items you sold, which is the REAL"craft" of the Merchant, notvendor creation, should all come back to you when you drop the skill.
They aren't a backpack designed to hold items. That's called a strawman argument... saying that because I can do A with B therefore I should be able to do X with Y is an irrelevant leap of poor logic.
And I understand perfectly the use of the word use...The fact that is we are playing the "Definiition of use" gameis solely due to the poor choice of words available to describe the skill mod. Eskimoes have fourteen or fifteen words for "Snow"... our language is a poor vehicle for an Eskimo talking about snow. That doesn't mean he doesn' have a concept in mind when he says "snow" in English that is identical to the concept he has when he says something in Eskimo.
This Merchant skill is a difficult skill to describe exactly, since the words maintan are used elsewhere in the game to man something different, etc. To play games withthe meaning of words when the concept is clear is semantics, and one used by children regulary. What the skill mod says is IRRELEVANT, since the Dev's have made the point clear about their intent in their statements. It's a blind for the real issues, andwe need to get over it.
The real issue here was overlooked. Why is Merchant being called "A waste of Skill points, and always was"by people who dropped the class but still want vendors. I don't say that about Creature Handler, or Pistoleer, which are skill I don't have. I like the Merdchant skills, and have vendors on multiple worlds, in several shops. I play the Merchant that I have the skills for, and LIKE it. I don't care for seeing other people competing by abusing the ability to have multiple vendors while looking down their noses at the skills required to use them. Obviously, we aren't calling for Merchant Nerf, we're calling for the class to be the stand-alone that the other classes are. If you don't like the skills, don't get them!