Merchant Archive

Thread: Merchant Top 5 Issues

Wire3k
Wed Mar 24, 2004 7:13 am
#144






Holgerjr wrote:

In that their Merchants want lots of credits and want the devs to make the game more appealing to the startup player. The whole merchant deal comes in after you have played awhile and have decided you want lots of credits. Merchants are an important part of our galaxy and should be an important part of the SWG.








So - I'm greedy and I want a monopoly on the ability to sell things in any amount worth having. Loosely translated - that's exactly what you just said. Doesn't that seem a tad unfair to you? Bear in mind - I HAVE a shop and a master merchant - a very successful shop I might add.


How many crafters you think are going to stick around if all their work has been devalued? How many players you think will stick around if they can't find the goods they need to function? But suppose this all takes place AND they put item limits on vendors. How would a 'pure' merchant have the storage space to hold everything they'd need to buy from others to stock their vendors with?


As someone pointed out a bit earlier in the thread - this is NOT a unique thing in SWG. Schematics allow functionality long after skills are gone - heck - they allow functionality even if you've NEVER had the skills.


It's not like these folks have never HAD the skills - they earned them just as you did. If you keep the skills - there are other benefits, and I'm not arguing there shouldn't be even more tools and benefits to those currently retaining skill. I'm saying as a practical matter this would be a very very bad thing for the game as a whole to have fewer crafters - fewer vendors - less product and money concentrating in even fewer hands.


This whole issue smacks of 'merchants' wanting a slice of everyone else's pie for administrative duties. Kinda like big government - and I don't like that either.



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CarissaLeigh
Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:13 am
#145

My issue is more a Vendor programming issue.


When some offers you and item you are charged City sales tax on the offer. And then when u resell the item it's taxed again.


Thus, the item is double taxed. It is hard to make a profit off double taxiation. The Offers to Vendor should not be taxed!!





Carissa Leigh
Master Smuggler/Commando
Mos Krayta, Tatooine. Mall is Beside Shuttlepad. (Weapons, Resources, Power)
** ALL Vendors registered on Planetary maps **
Holgerjr
Wed Mar 24, 2004 11:14 am
#146

OK 3K then whats wrong with the one vendor per non merchant person plan?


And allow merchants to make the vendors?



Toasted.
I like my piks toasted, with a little butter.
samijx
Wed Mar 24, 2004 4:46 pm
#147

Ok, I've read 3 pages of these and I'm going to put my 2 cents in. Regarding situation #5 Obviously.



"Why does EVERYONE who tries to make an arguement for letting non merchants keep their vendors use such flawed comparisons"


I'm a weaponsmith. Can I make a gun and give it to a friend to sell to a guy on dant? I'm not heading to dant, but since my friend is, can't I let him?....A REAL HUMAN PLAYER do it for me? Might I pay him a few credits for his troubles?



1. If I can pay a real person to do it, what's the big deal letting me use an NPC (Vendor) to do it for me, even if I lack the merchant skills any more?


2. I think that the hiring ability of merchants is just that.... HIRING! I hire three NPC's to be my vendors. I use my skill points to search the galaxy for some highly qualified NPC's to sell my weapons. Due to my merchant skills I'm able to get three random characters to ad bark mymessage andadvertise on the map......OK, skip ahead a month. I need those skill points elsewhere so I decide to drop them. I NO LONGER HAVE THE ABILITY TO HIRE ANY MORE VENDORS OR MAKE DIFFERENT VENDORS, but paying maintenance (salary) is way differentthan the actual act of hiring no?


3. All these complaints about the ability to drop merchant skills and still have a method of selling my weapons, but you have 100% the same ability to drop your merchant skills and do the same. You can persue crafting products to put into your vendors. Instead of becoming a capitolist, and using the market, you simply complain that others have the fortitude to play the game, and operate their business the best they can.


4. Give it a rest.



Sami-jx (Naritus)
Master Weaponsmith, Master Armorsmith, Master Artisan, Merchant 4043

Sambacca (Naritus)
Master Bounty Hunter, Master Combat Medic, Carbineer 0400, Reflexes 0300
JTGAlpha
Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:22 pm
#148

samijx! LEAVE THE DEAD HORSE ALONE! STEP AWAY FROM THE DEAD HORSE! IT IS DEAD! IT IS BEATEN! LET IT ROT IN PEACE! GAH!!!!


Look. We've argued it and argued it. And argued it. How about because if you DO get to keep your vendors because then there's no reason for ANYONE TO KEEP THE PROFESSION. Is that a good reason?


But don't answer that. That's your opinion. This is mine. We will NEVER AGREE on this. There's your side of the room, here's mine. Let it be. Let it go. The dev's will decide. Someone's gonna be pissed when they do. It's unavoidable. Let it go. You're not convincing me, I"m not convincing you. Let the horse just be dead.





Dayasi Vo'Boda CEO of SCUM PA.
Founders of Agrilatia in the Agrilat Swamps Of Corellia (Intrepid).
Taking Scum and Villainy to a new Level to Serve YOU.
Remember: SCUM does it dirty
Another Horseman of the Smuggling Apocolypse

Wire3k
Wed Mar 24, 2004 6:17 pm
#149






Holgerjr wrote:

OK 3K then whats wrong with the one vendor per non merchant person plan?


And allow merchants to make the vendors?







Well, it's much easier to find things on vendors if they were split up - and it's also more of a gold sink for the economy - multiple vendor fees running.


I have nothing against merchants 'crafting' vendors - hell, I'm all for letting ID's change their looks. But if they end up putting severe limitations on # of items on a vendor this problem is only going to get worse. Bottlenecking the distribution methods of getting goods into customer hands has no real benefits - not even to merchants - although many apparently think that will 'fix' their problems.


Come visit my shop sometime and tell me I can run this operation with only 6 vendors - or heaven forbid - one. My electronics/bulk vendor has nearly 2k of crates on it just by himself - and that is even packaging some things in fullrun 40 crate bags. My biowear vendor usually has 500ish and I can never keep that one stocked properly and the accessory vendor handles only boots, hats, backpacks, jewelry, gloves - etc and has nearly 1k at any given time.. I just recently used 3 more vendors to split out medical, tailoring and chef components from my bulk vendor because it was so horribly overcrowded - and it's much easier for my customers to find items. My pet vendor usually has around 300 items on it between pets, food and meds - my decor vendor has nearly 1k of items at any given time - and that's not even all the vendors in my shop.


I have a very large successful store. Even if I JUST did tailoring, there are many professions that benefit from splitting up types of items on different vendors for customer convienence. The system is setup for a large selection of customized product but the sorting system on both vendors and bazaar doesn't support it well.





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Holgerjr
Wed Mar 24, 2004 11:08 pm
#150

OK 3k.


But Merchants would continue to have 6 vendors or whatever the max is set at.


I am just thinking a normal person can have one droid or one per out. So they can also have 1 vendor out. And like a creature handler, a merchant can have multiple vendors out.



Toasted.
I like my piks toasted, with a little butter.
Holgerjr
Wed Mar 24, 2004 11:22 pm
#151

OK all who have responded.


A normal person can have one pet under CL 10. A Creature handler can have many pets because he is a creature handler. If the creature handler drops his skills, guess what he cannot have? Multiple pets out. It is not a flawed argument to say that the merchant benefits should not be allowed to be kept if you drop the skills. Further if you want to pay a player to sell your 150 or so wares all day, go ahead, good luck finding someone who will do that for the same price as a vendor.


You say let it rest, because it sounds like you have dropped the Merchant Skills already to pursue a crafting profession. If you have not, then good for you.


I am both Master Architect and Master Armorsmith with my 6 vendors in 3 shops across the galaxy.


I firmly believe that allowing persons to keep their vendors after they drop their skills is wrong and contrary to all the rest of the game.


The economics of the game would not be severely effected by stopping this allowed error. If merchants sell the one vendor to those that want it, and these person do not have to get any artisan skills, my guess is there would be more vendors than there are now. The only difference is that more players would have vendors instead of a few persons having 6 from using the error in the game. I know lots of purely combat classes that would love to have a vendor to sell their looted items, and not have to give up combat skills to get artisan to get the vendor.


Lastly I will not give it a rest, because vendors and vendor customization is the only thing the Merchant has, and if someone can have these without being a Merchant, then there is no point in having a Merchant Class. In which case give us all free merchants that we can ad bark planetary advertise and put clothes on free as soon as we open account. Save us the hassle of getting merchant first then dropping it to get these vendors.





Toasted.
I like my piks toasted, with a little butter.
Wire3k
Thu Mar 25, 2004 2:19 am
#152






Holgerjr wrote:

Lastly I will not give it a rest, because vendors and vendor customization is the only thing the Merchant has, and if someone can have these without being a Merchant, then there is no point in having a Merchant Class. In which case give us all free merchants that we can ad bark planetary advertise and put clothes on free as soon as we open account. Save us the hassle of getting merchant first then dropping it to get these vendors.






I never did think there was a point in having a merchant class - but there is one. But you are forgetting the most valuable reason to keep merchant - 20% discount on structures. On one house - that's not a lot - add it up over the period of 6 months on a few factories, harvesters - a PA hall or two, it adds up.




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samijx
Thu Mar 25, 2004 7:43 am
#153




JTGAlpha


I know you told me to give it a rest, yet you were compelled to perpetuate this all importantdiscussion. If we can remove (for now) the whole skill point aspect of merchant argurment and just bring up a little realism to the game.



Obviouly there's not many people who purely persue themerchant profession. My guess is 1 merchant per every 10 master crafters. (Insert your best guess if you wish)


1. Those few merchants will become our only source of sellingour products(if we drop merchant and want to display products in a shop)


2. Merchants will then operate in a virtual oligopoly (One of the factors that led to the great depression in the 1930's) - in layman's terms....Price fixing can take hold.


3. Non-mastercrafters will have a horrible time trying to sell their stuff anywhere other than the bazaar.


4. How do you recommend non-merchants interract with merchants? Does the merchant pay up front for all products, and then he sells the products at his price? If he doesn't sell them, then he's screwed. If The crafter gives the merchant the goods, then gets a portion of the proceeds, then that gives the merchant the ability to just steal the goods and offers no protection for the crafter. (Hmmmm a smuggler / merchant class?)


5. If they completely removed the cap on the bazaar then I would agree with with loosing the skills. (This would remove most of the concerns expressed, but then again, will undermine the merchant class)


6. The point that a non-CH can control a level 10 pet....that's a great point! It's a bit interesting that I have the ability to command and control a wild animal, but I can't figure out the incredibly difficult task of paying maintenance foran NPC's salary?


7. If a merchant class is even necessary, then the devs ought to expand on the Merchant's *special skills* but not remove a man's ability to hire an NPC vendor. Think about it. That is such a basic task, hiring some dude for minimum wage to sell a product.


8. We are limited to a very small amount of skill points. (250 isn't much.) It takes 37 skill points for the ability to have three NPC vendors and have them advertised, that's15% of the allotted skill points just to have a minimally successfulshop as things currently are. I don't think that it should take 15% of a person's knowledge just to hire 3 employees.


9. I say let non-merchants keep the ability to operate vendors, but provide merchants with other skills, perhaps enhance the structure discounts, implement the roving NPC advertiser, allow the merchant class to put more items in vendors and on the bazzar than non-merchants, the list can go on.


10. I just needed to come up with a 10th thing to complete Sami's ten commandments!



Sami-jx (Naritus)
Master Weaponsmith, Master Armorsmith, Master Artisan, Merchant 4043

Sambacca (Naritus)
Master Bounty Hunter, Master Combat Medic, Carbineer 0400, Reflexes 0300
Snoogins
Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:33 am
#154

I think what would fix merchant......return the miner class. This would create a great market for resources that all non-miners would buy from rather than ineffectually minning there own stuff. Couple this with limits to vendor capacity and lower the bizaar max back to 3k. The merchant was intended to buy from artisans and crafters and resell, but if everyone can sell to the bizaar for 6k or just run 1 vendor with 8000 items then yes, a merchant is worthless. I have been a dedicated merchant since launch and it is very hard for me to survive. I buy resources at market prices just to make items that I have to sell for less than the resource cost. Either get rid of merchant or make adjustments so that it is useful and not just mildly convinient.
DawnTreader777
Fri Mar 26, 2004 10:30 am
#155

how about an interface that is unwieldly to manage.


why should i have to select one item at a time to enter them into my vendor, AT THE SAME PRICE?


why should i have to sell and item and withdraw the sale TO STORE THE ITEM?


and why should i have to then use a sell box in the STOREroom that works slightly different from the sell box on the selling tab?


how about a STOREroom that doesnt store things.


or better yet, why are things STORED for only 7 days?


obviously the devs dont have the technical expertise to make things work right. they keep writing these letters about how great the game is. have you noticed that each one referes to the same thing? have you noticed how they each mention how the game is getting better? oh, we added mounts and vehicles, the game is better. there maybe more content, and getting around sure has improved, but there are still fundamental problems with combat, the GCW, and professions. smuggler underworld is useless.


even worse, merchants are useless. there are some skills that are neat i must say, but in light of the fact that anyone with artisan and the right amount of business can take all of thier stuff and sell it themselves. there is no place for merchants in the game. they have no niche. and you know what i was doubly screwed cause i took another profession that had no niche, smuggler.


i am done. done like dinner. i sure hope the game gets fixed to what it should have been off the shelf someday, maybe then you will all ba paying for something worth the money.



Understanding is a three edged sword, your side, thier side and the TRUTH
- Captain John Sheridan, Babylon 5

So much for a Smuggler revamp, maybe they should just rename us, it would take less time and be easy to do.
"Useless" would be my first choice as a name suggestion.


of course at this point there is no reason to revamp anything. SOE should just shut the game off.

DawnTreader777
Fri Mar 26, 2004 10:31 am
#156



how about an interface that is unwieldly to manage.


why should i have to select one item at a time to enter them into my vendor, AT THE SAME PRICE?


why should i have to sell and item and withdraw the sale TO STORE THE ITEM?


and why should i have to then use a sell box in the STOREroom that works slightly different from the sell box on the selling tab?


how about a STOREroom that doesnt store things.


or better yet, why are things STORED for only 7 days?


obviously the devs dont have the technical expertise to make things work right. they keep writing these letters about how great the game is. have you noticed that each one referes to the same thing? have you noticed how they each mention how the game is getting better? oh, we added mounts and vehicles, the game is better. there maybe more content, and getting around sure has improved, but there are still fundamental problems with combat, the GCW, and professions. smuggler underworld is useless.


even worse, merchants are useless. there are some skills that are neat i must say, but in light of the fact that anyone with artisan and the right amount of business can take all of thier stuff and sell it themselves. there is no place for merchants in the game. they have no niche. and you know what i was doubly screwed cause i took another profession that had no niche, smuggler.


i am done. done like dinner. i sure hope the game gets fixed to what it should have been off the shelf someday, maybe then you will all ba paying for something worth the money.



Understanding is a three edged sword, your side, thier side and the TRUTH
- Captain John Sheridan, Babylon 5

So much for a Smuggler revamp, maybe they should just rename us, it would take less time and be easy to do.
"Useless" would be my first choice as a name suggestion.


of course at this point there is no reason to revamp anything. SOE should just shut the game off.

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