Merchant Archive

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4. The lack of tools to make good business arrangements with Artisans.

We would love to have more detailed ideas about tools to help with these
arrangements.

5. Currently it is possible to give up practically all of your merchant
skills without having to give up the vendors that you received as a benefit
of those skills.

We would like to see some suggested changes that would address this
situation. We agree in principle that Merchant Skills should not be
surrendered without the loss of the benefits of those skills.

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Both of these issues are very important to the true merchant in the game. So here are my solutions for both:

#4 - I can sum up in one word what merchants really need in this game to help them work better with other classes - consignment. If we had consignment sales someone could use our vendor to sell their stuff, and we would get a cut for having the skill and paying the maintenance on the vendor. This alone would make our class what we should really be - merchants. The problem with merchant at this point is that it is an anciallary skill for so many people - myself included. I make items in my other professions (or on my other characters), and then sell them with my merchant. People who don't have multiple accounts, or who don't want to utilize skill points to place and retain merchants should have an easier way of interacting with me as a merchant to sell their goods.

A simple option to allow your vendor to accept consignment sales (with some permissions in place to restrict who can sell on your vendor as well as each person or group's % that they must pay us for our service) would make a lot of people in the game happier IMHO. The artisans/crafter/whatever wouldn't have to spend skill points on merchant, and we could reap some additional benefit to our class. I foresee this implemented as such:

CrafterX is allowed to sell items on my vendor for a 10% fee. When he comes up to my vendor he has an option to look at the items for sale on the vendor, make an offer to the vendor, or check his stockroom on my vendor as normal - with an addition tab labeled "My Sales" (once consignment is turned on for him at this vendor). This tab would list his agreed upon % (if it's not the % we agreed upon then he can ask me to change it), the items he has for sale, the sale price foreach item, his take home amount for each item, and the amount of money to be paid to the merchant upon sale of the item. Now this person can sell items in a vendor without needing any merchant skill - he's happy, and you can earn money as a merchant now without having to either have another profession that is utilizing your merchant skills, or spending tons of time scouring the galaxy looking for items to sell on your vendor.

NOTE: Other players can/should have different % that they pay to me as a merchant for this service - this allows a more competitive market to exist for this service. Also, this skill should be placed at the top of one of the columns in our skill tree, if not at master. This should be something that is a reward for keeping your merchant skills.

#5 - This is plain and simple to me. If I surrender other skills in the game I lose the special abilities granted by this box. Currently there is no incentive to stay a merchant (other than to be able to rename/move your vendors) and this should not be the case. A vendor is not like a schematic that can be created and kept IMHO once you drop the skill. You no longer have the skill to control vendors - think of them as CH pets - once you drop the CH skills necessary to call a particular pet you can't call/control it anymore. Vendors should be no different. If you drop your merchant skills, see my response to #4 above - there's still hope for you to sell things without spending skill points to do so...

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

Bamf Wole

Rai Cella
The Master Smuggler of Tusken's Bane

The Hidden Fist: Fight Club and Black Market
Spices/Sliced Weapons/Slicer Tools/ & More

Just outside of Tusken's Bane, Tatooine
(-4811, -5652)

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Gui-Jan Itor
Senate President - Avian Technology and Trade
Master Architect
Master Merchant
Master ShipWright
Dark Lord of the Quiche

I have a few problems with issue #5

1) First off, as some of you have suggested, if vendors were to just poof you are going to hear the largest outcry you have ever heard. If this were to be *fixed* then they should only be disabled so that you can retrieve your items. I also think if you reduce number of vendors because of dropping a skill then you should get to choose which to keep based also on what you are qualified to keep. Also, ifthe ability to dress your vendors is droppedI don't agree with taking away the clothing on the current vendor. If that person took the time to get to that point in merchant what does it matter that they have a nicely dressed vendor? You do realize they can't ever change that vendor again if they drop it?I don't understand the bigdeal on that one. The person with that skill has the ability to change the clothes as much as they want, that is their benefit. The person who dropped is forever stuck with that same apparel unless they regain the skill. Thats like saying my clothing i madewith a master colorshould drop to an artisan color if i droptailor.

2) Second, the ratio of crafters vs REAL merchants. I seriously dont' think there are enough real acting merchants to possibly handle all crafters who just want to craft and need a place/merchant to sell their goods. Crafters are forced to become merchants if they want to sell their wares. How many real merchants do you see running around in Theed or Coronet? Please compare this to crafters... If all vendors were taken from artisan like some of you want to do, and then all vendorsfrom those who dropped merchant were to suddenly be gone you are going to see the SWG economy go to complete hell not to mention another huge outcry. I can tell you, with the merchant profession in the state it is now, there is no way that any merchantwho is handling other crafters could possibly handle all the wares i have for sale. It would be an utter night mare. It would either prompt crafters to quit crafting, or quit all together. All crafters should have the opportunity to haveat least one of their own low level terminal type vendors.

TheoreticallyI agree that non merchants should not be able to retain their*Merchant* vendors. I also think Master Merchant has a great potential to be something huge and attractive to potential merchants, but lets face the facts.. it is in need of a serious revamp. If you want me to spend the 92 skill points to have this profession then you had better make it worth it. That is the whole problem with merchant as it is now. There is no big benefit to being master merchant.. what you get a protocol droid?? woowee.What do we do to get more interest in the profession Master Merchant? Givepeoplemore reason/benefits to be one.

I think to make master merchant worth having they should have the opportunity to place a Vendor Mall that can be registered on the map. They should also have more lots available specifically for merchantstructuresand have extra vendors added at master.Also a more effective interface with the crafters including consignment & wholesale purchasing.

Lets think about how the merchant gets the wares for sale currently.. If i am a master tailor and i want to use the service of a master merchant..to stock a vendor at his location... how in blazes am i going to travel with all those supplies, and offer a substantial amount of goods to him under the current state?WillI make 20 trips to his location carting goodsI have made becauseI can only hold so many items? Will i travel to his locationwith crafting droid and offer items to his vendor (limit 24) or if i bag the goods...i then run out of supplies (becausei can only hold so much) and then make repeated trips? This makes no sense to a tailor or any other crafter. That my friends is a huge part of why there is a vendor in every house, not enough storage. I personally make 10-15 items then transfer it to my vendors for lack of storage. I say give the merchant more power by having either.. as someone suggested, upload terminals from his suppliers where they can offer goods from their location as they make them, or cargo containers in which the master merchant can drop off in a crafters house for the crafter to fill,then return to pick up a large shipment.(but i can already see how that could potentially be exploited, and personally i like the idea of an upload terminal which the merchant can access at the other end by purchasing and or consigning,stocking and reselling the items)

As for consignment.. the merchant should be able to either purchase the items from thecrafter or consign them.Giving the merchanta percentage on the sale and the crafter their asked wholesale price. The system should email both the crafter and the merchant whensold with how much they made and whatitem was sold. This alone would be huge for the merchant.

Also for efficency,i think that you should be able to placeone tent at eff 2, then as you go up getreduced fees and be able to placemore tents as you go up.. and finally the master merchant can placeas many as he hasspace available.

There are a lot of good ideas in this thread for a revamp and I seriously think it needs to be done. Maybe some of the smaller bugs can be fixed until then. But I cannot agree with people loosing their vendors the way it is now, it would affect the economy in a huge way. Master Merchants could not handle the load that will be put upon them. And what you will see are either people quitting because they will have to take up merchant and have no skill points left to have a recreation type skill and they will get bored and frustrated,or many people quitting crafting because its too much of a pain under the current system. Only till a revamp is done will MM truly be effective and attractive therefore making it a very useful and desireable profession.

I respect all of you master merchants who are truly merchants. (And I reallydon't see too many of you out there.) Being one under the current state of the profession has to be quite a challenge.I have to add also, not once since I have been playing (since 2 weeks after the game started) has any master merchant ever approached me with the idea of reselling my goods. I'm sure there have been those who boughtstuff from my vendors to resell however, but not too many. I personally had to take merchant because I am a tailor. If MM offered some of the things I and others have suggested my interest would again be sparked in this profession.

My conclusion is this..there are really onlytwo choices for this, that is to fix thesmall bugs and leave people with all or some of their vendors who drop, or give this profession thelove it needs. No matter howI agree theoretically, I don't think it willfix things to take the vendors away as it stands now. A bandaid does no good over an open artery.

Toasted.
I like my piks toasted, with a little butter.

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Elim Garak
Master Tailor

Visit the Promenade (2632 -4427), Mos Eisley's premier shopping destination.

Throwing my .02 in here - and yes, I do indeed have a second account with a master on it - so it's not like I'm just a crafter crying about the possibility of my vendors being taken away.

The way to make Merchant viable as a class - and not as a point sink (which truth be told - was likely what it was designed for) is to ADD things to merchants - not take away functionality of other players.

While many merchants seem to think they are supposed to have a monopoly on being able to sell goods - and that removing vendors from others will increase their chances of having that monopoly - this is going against enlightened self-interest. What a merchant needs even more than vendors is customers. Tick off a vast majority of the playerbase - you ARE going to have far fewer customers.

Players EXPECT - and I daresay - they, IMHO are right - to have the right to sell their own goods if they so desire. Placing a vendor - dressing them up, making them bark isn't the key to merchant as a class. Advertising is far more valuable - and not the piddly overcrowded map we have now. There are things that can be added to the merchant class NEW things that will improve the class - and give merchants with skill an edge over those that give it up without messing with the current system. Remember - changes that drive SOE customers away - drive YOUR customers away as well.

The vendor/bazaar system has been worked on - more than once. It needs a lot more work. In general - categories need a ton of attention - both in how items are being categorized (errors) and in the categories themselves in some cases.

While they are at it - they should move premium sales from the bazaar (which is useless) to private vendors for those merchants with the skill. Since sales cycle off in 30 days - there is your automatic flag that turns 'off' if people no longer have the skill to do it. If premium sales on private vendors showed up on the bazaar - that would be an incredibly powerful tool to draw folks to shops. There are already a few things that make merchant worth keeping in it's own right - if you own a lot of properties, 20% adds up - but this would be a shortterm check - and far far more valuable than being listed on the map. This worked in beta - they turned it off in release.

There needs to be a new kind of vendor - a purchasing agent. I recommend this being added, instead of just throwing it in with current vendor functionality. What this vendor would do is allow the owner to list either specific items, classes of resources - etc - with a purchase price. You fund this vendor and people offer it items that are on the list and are paid immediately. This would work very much like the junk dealers do - but with the owner being able to specify what they buy. You want people to sell to you - make it easier for them to do it. Offers are at the moment linked to the bazaar system so that a player may WANT to sell to a merchant - but if they have any offers of their own on the bazaar - they may not be able to. Taking vendors away from these players is only going to make folks offer LESS to merchants - not more. Be very careful what you ask for - you just may get it. If you want to get really fancy - link the purchasing agent into a new screen on the bazaar - or create a new type of public terminal so folks can find folks that want to buy - instead of sell. This is new functionality - people would accept that one turning itself off without skill - they won't sit still for vendors they may have had going on a year suddenly shutting down. Really - to be truly functional - the offer screen should include both an option for generic type (like meat or iron) and also the option of a specific named resource. If a listing costs and cycles off like sales do - there is your automatic shutdown flag if someone gives up the skill.

There needs to be a public barker - or some kind of bulletin board system in towns that people with merchant skills can interact with. Advertising and getting people into your shop is key for the merchant. Given that the map is so crowded with empty vendors - very few folks use it like it was intended to be used. Having empty vendors autodelete from the map would be another way to solve both that problem - and a check on whether someone has the skills to relist. Another option for the master or highly skilled merchant would be to register your shop - instead of individual vendors. There needs to be an option on the house menu that can be checked for all the various applicable categories and shows up as ONE waypoint on the map.

It's not vendors that will make or breakthe merchant class - it's traffic to their store - and vendor functionality.

But no matter what skills or benefits they eventually add to merchant - merchant is a class that ultimately pivots on the player's own skills. SOE can certainly give more tools for functionality and ease of use - but merchant is and always will be a player skill driven (people and business) profession. Trying to push for a stanglehold on the ability to sell goods is self defeating.

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www.swgbio.com
On-line clothing catalog for tailors, bio-engineers and their customers

www.swgbio.com/mom
MMO Musings - Random Observations and my best advice
www.swgbio.com/myadvice.wav

I saw somewhere where they intend to limit the number of items on a vendor. Has this been implimented yet? Is it unlimited or limited to 150 items?

Ok after some comments from others its seems that Merchants only having shops with vendors might be hard on the economy. As such here is my suggestion.

1) Phase out this business about person keeping vendors and merchant tents after they drop skills. If I drop CH I get a message that saysI have no hope of controlling this. Same thing for dropping merchant skills. The vendor exists and only allows retrieval of items from the vendor by the owner for 30 days. Then it is gone.

2) Thereafter, since every other profession crafts things. Let the merchant craft vendors. Possible schematics to make the robot and machine vendors and some other flora based schematic to make NPC vendors. Then like droids and pets, a non merchant can only have one vendor out at a time. The non merchant goes to a merchant to purchase the vendor.

3) Merchant vendors. I suggest both sell of vendor and maintenance fees to go to vendors for special functions. If you want planetary ad its 20 credits/hr half goes to the merchant half to the system. If you want ad barking, matching vendors, etc.. there is a maintenance fee attached that gets paid to the merchant and to the system. Additionally standard maintenance fees for regular vendors are substantially increased for non merchants. The reason the merchant is paid the maintenance is that in concept the merchant has to coordinate the planetary advertisement and he charges an advertisement fee to the person accessing his services. Ads cost money over time, they are not a one time fee.

4) Business tree in artisan. OK i suggest allowing reduction in the cost of the vendors to exist in this tree. Everyone gets one free vendor to place like they get one CL 10 pet or droid without using any skillpoints. But again the maintenance fee for a person with no merchant or business skills in equivalent to the rate on heavy miners and this rate goes down as the person increases in merchant ability.

This allows the merchant to become an integral part of the SWG system. They now serve a function, as if you need a vendor you have to buy it from them. Also the vendors should be crafted, to tie the merchant into the dependency on resources faced by every other crafting profession. Possibly the best vendors require really nice resources.

OK anyone.... comments.

Toasted.
I like my piks toasted, with a little butter.