Merchant Archive

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Wire3k wrote:

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LonelyGhost wrote:

I bet if we can present our correspondant with a clear and effective tweak to the skills of the Merchant that will help to relieve the inadequecies, the Devs just might do it for us. Commission sales maybe? A "real" stockroom we can use to store hundreds of crates of goods we buy from a crafter (only crates, not resources or singles)?

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My problem with this mess is the order it's being done in.

www.swgbio.com/merch.html

That was MY response - directly to SOE months ago of what I thought needed to be done to justify merchant as a class the first time this subject really reared it's ugly head. Everyone seems to be forgetting - this change has very little to do with anything WE need, it's what THEY need to accomodate a DB that is insufficient to support the need their own systems as designed created. What happens next year - if the game actually makes it thru and people adjust? What gets cut next? Anyone remember house limits being temporary?

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Interestingly enough my biggest arguement about the changes we are seing in Publish 10 was exactly that..it is out of order. We need better tools and we need them before they limit the items and remove the illegal vendors. However the tools take more time to write and this change was in line with the backend rewrite of the bazaar/vendor code so it got done first over my objections.

That doesn't mean that I buy into the doomsday predictions that this thread and others generally fall into. And for the love of god coould you all stop discussing your resumes..bleah..

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DocSavag wrote:

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However the tools take more time to write and this change was in line with the backend rewrite of the bazaar/vendor code so it got done first over my objections.

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I had one little sign hanging over my desk for years, it was the best advice I was ever given.

If you don't have time to do it right, when are you going to find the time to fix it?

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Wire3k wrote:

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DocSavag wrote:

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However the tools take more time to write and this change was in line with the backend rewrite of the bazaar/vendor code so it got done first over my objections.

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I had one little sign hanging over my desk for years, it was the best advice I was ever given.

If you don't have time to do it right, when are you going to find the time to fix it?

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I've had to make those decisions professionally myself. They are always wrong, but they are often the only choice you have at the time. I don't know that this is one of those times but we have to deal with it. One should NOT assume that I agree with everything that is decided by the dev team but (me) bitching about it here doesn't do anyone any good. I choose to make the best of it and adapt! If you can't adapt you don't survive..in life, in business, and in this game.

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DocSavag wrote:

I've had to make those decisions professionally myself. They are always wrong, but they are often the only choice you have at the time. I don't know that this is one of those times but we have to deal with it. One should NOT assume that I agree with everything that is decided by the dev team but (me) bitching about it here doesn't do anyone any good. I choose to make the best of it and adapt! If you can't adapt you don't survive..in life, in business, and in this game.

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Fine advice Doc, however they have demonstrated more times, in more ways than we can count, that they 'fix' things - and never get around to REALLY fixing them.

They've had what 13 months to address the DB - they've known since beta this was going to be a problem. As long as players tolerate this style of management of the game, they have zero incentive to change their ways.

If the mass exodus I forsee in the not so distant future happens, it won't ONLY be because of these specific issues, but it could be the last straw for many folks. People have been actively looking for reasons sufficient to break the inertia of leaving for awhile, if nothing else - people leaving have a cascade effect within communities. This is but one example in a very long list. Changes to individual professions usually don't impact a ton of people outside of their immediate vicinity - these changes affect the game at it's very core.

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Wire3k wrote:

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DocSavag wrote:

I've had to make those decisions professionally myself. They are always wrong, but they are often the only choice you have at the time. I don't know that this is one of those times but we have to deal with it. One should NOT assume that I agree with everything that is decided by the dev team but (me) bitching about it here doesn't do anyone any good. I choose to make the best of it and adapt! If you can't adapt you don't survive..in life, in business, and in this game.

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Fine advice Doc, however they have demonstrated more times, in more ways than we can count, that they 'fix' things - and never get around to REALLY fixing them.

They've had what 13 months to address the DB - they've known since beta this was going to be a problem. As long as players tolerate this style of management of the game, they have zero incentive to change their ways.

If the mass exodus I forsee in the not so distant future happens, it won't ONLY be because of these specific issues, but it could be the last straw for many folks. People have been actively looking for reasons sufficient to break the inertia of leaving for awhile, if nothing else - people leaving have a cascade effect within communities. This is but one example in a very long list. Changes to individual professions usually don't impact a ton of people outside of their immediate vicinity - these changes affect the game at it's very core.

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Hon the problem is I don't agree with your dire predcitions about the results of these changes. There will be changes, some of them not pleasnt, but I just don't buy some of the extremes. We'll see who is right about that. But frankly I can't mold the devs into your way of thinking..I can't even mold them into my way of thinking. What I can do is fight the battles tht I can fight to make things better. Beyond that I just adapt to the game and continue to have fun.

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Bandola wrote:

I agree, I never play my Merchant as a merchant, I have the skills because I chose to get them primarily to get the vendors and the reduced maintenance costs, I no longer worry about the reduced costs, this is peanuts now, but the vendors are there to support my Architect business. I could surrender the rest and just hold onto the business line and keep the vendors (I don't even need the extra Master gives me), but until I can think of something better to use the points for...

It is a choice I made very early on, I want to run a business, ergo I need vendors, so I need some merchant skills, I do not see why anybody should be able to put up a vendor unless they have the required skills, you cannot craft the higher range stuff in any crafting profession without the skills first, so why should just anybody be able to place a vendor?

It's all about choices, you want to do something, you gotta get the skills, that is the backbone of the game. Take that away from ANY part of it and you start the downhill slide.

Just my view. Nobody has to agree with me.

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This is just it though. You don't need merchant. You need the utility of vendors. There is nothing TO merchant. So how exactly is that a choice? What exactly is the point in crafting items if you don't want to sell them?

Merchant is a last carry-over from beta when you even had to have a profession to use harvesters.

Just because they left merchant in game, doesn't mean that it was a 'good' decision or the right one. And if they are going to leave it in the game, and force players to invest 92 skill points into it, then, in my opinion, they should make it a viable, stand-alone profession that vendors are only a small part of.

Vendors should be opened to everyone. They should take up lots, be sold by merchants, and have a fairly low base item limit. Then, if you want to be a merchant, aside from Merchant related skills/abilities/missions -- things like commodities markets, trade between cities and space (when JTLS comes out), auction houses.. stuff like that, that would make a merchant more like Jabba the Hutt than a stock clerk at some retail outlet -- they could also get increases to the amount of items they can sell on vendors, reduced maintenance fees, increased lots or have vendors take less lots for them, etc etc.

If merchant was a viable profession, this argument over vendors wouldn't be an issue. But because vendors are the ONLY thing merchant has.. It becomes one. And that is what needs fixing in my opinion. If there was a 'good' reason beyond the utility of vendors to keep merchant, I don't think people would resent being forced to be one as much. Nor would 'sharing' vendors with non-merchants be such an issue.

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DragonScout wrote:
Crafters definitely have the advantage of factories. But for the most part that isn't because that is their prefered method of creating items. I mean yes, in some cases, it is definitely nice, especially for stocking vendors with a large selection of goods.. but you still have to make the schematic.. get the components get the right materials.. And it is an on going process that changes with each schematic. Also, I think factories would be used less if so many items didn't require identical components for each item. The system forces crafters to use factories.

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Wire3k wrote:

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MaDuece wrote:

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Wire3k wrote:

ROFLMAO! The game is populated by predominately males between the ages of 15 and 35.

Well, this is incorrect - but you probably won't believe that either, most likely because you fall inside this demographic and can't imagine anyone other than those like yourself having any desire to 'game'. I am neither male, nor do I fall inside this age bracket, not by a longshot. If you mean predominately by 50% or more - maybe, but I'll wager the percentage of female players is far higher than you suspect. 30% is conservative - with 40-45% likely being closer to the mark. Female players also tend to be a shade older than their male counterparts.

Believe it or not - females DO play games, and MMOs are a particularly attractive genre for them due to their basically intrinsic social nature. Pick up any industry or gaming magazine going back a year or so - you are likely to see articles puzzling how to attract more female gamers into the market. MMOs are a natural - and they do come, if they aren't driven away.

Females are also likely to find crafter/merchant an attractive playstyle as it allows expression of creativity, building/creation over destruction, nurturing activity and social contact. These are by no means female only motivations, but they do rate far higher on the average female gamer's list of priorities than on the average male's.

I was talking about THIS game. Go to swg-faces(dot)com. I think it is a more than fair representation of the gaming community. The majority of the player base in THIS game can be seen by counting the mugshots submitted by the players. The majority of those mugshots reflect the demographic that I described.

Now you may indeed be correct with the female demographic when taken as a talley in whole to ALL MMOs. However, you are also talking about games like the Sims; which I would imagine would attract more females. SWG, even though it has a social aspect that would attract some females, is predominately combat-centric in nature. Sure, I like to craft as well, but the crafting, in the end supports a combat means.

You predictions of doom and gloom over a vendor issue makes no sense considering the player base in question.

Within your assumptions, you are likely correct - how about within mine?

I think you are missing the point. I don't think your assumptions are correct about the demographic of theplayer base or its demands. Sure, there will be some that will quit over the vendor issue. However, the majority of the player base could care less as long as they get what they need to kill stuff and fly spacecraft. Its simply the genre of the game system in question. The vendor limits are not enough of a dramatic change, IMO, to warrant any concern that there will be an enormous drop in available goods that the player base demands. There will definitely be a period of time of adjustment, but it will find its equilibrium in short order. Players who want to play the game will find a way to adapt. Some of them will even prosper to an even greater degree because of it.

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MaDuece wrote:

I was talking about THIS game. Go to swg-faces(dot)com. I think it is a more than fair representation of the gaming community. The majority of the player base in THIS game can be seen by counting the mugshots submitted by the players. The majority of those mugshots reflect the demographic that I described.

Now you may indeed be correct with the female demographic when taken as a talley in whole to ALL MMOs. However, you are also talking about games like the Sims; which I would imagine would attract more females. SWG, even though it has a social aspect that would attract some females, is predominately combat-centric in nature. Sure, I like to craft as well, but the crafting, in the end supports a combat means.

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I honestly hope that isn't supposed to imply that most female gamers only play "fake" MMO's, like Sims Online...or I'd have to get my girl toon and beat up your boy toon. hehe kidding kidding

I will say this though: Female gamers are much more attuned to knowing about other female gamers. Trust me, there's a whole lot more female gamers out there than you think, and most play all of the same games you do. Gamer men have always displayed great misconception when it comes to the female playerbase. That wouldn't be as obvious to you, because you're not a female gamer.

Also, never base an online pic display as proof of any demographic. All that shows is that men are more likely to put their pictures up, either due to lack of concern of being judged, or the simple likelihood that men are more tech inclined to post them. Female gamers tend to shy away from online pic galleries in general, especially for a MMO. Think about it. Any idea how much crap they get in-game from being misjudged? Many don't feel the need to bring more attention upon themselves for being the elusive female gamer, especially since those pic galleries usually end up being judging contests of who's the hottest, blah blah. IMO, that goes to show that females take their gaming just as seriously as men. I don't play SWG because I need attention from strangers or to cyber. I play it to play. I have 4 accounts, and only 1 is a crafter. I've also never played, nor had any intention of playing Sims Online. If I wanted a chatroom, I'd just find one on yahoo for free and not waste $60 a month playing this game.

I'd agree that female gamers are probably more inclined to be crafters, but they shouldn't be held to that as proof of anything. 90% of the major crafters I know, are men. I know many females in-game who don't craft at all. Many who pvp too, and are damn good at it. We don't all fit the stereotypical female gamer profile that male gamers give us, I can promise you that.

Anyhoo, we got off-topic a bit didn't we? lol Sorry, I just wanted to throw in my side of that particular subject.

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SeraphinAnnie wrote:

I'd agree that female gamers are probably more inclined to be crafters, but they shouldn't be held to that as proof of anything. 90% of the major crafters I know, are men. I know many females in-game who don't craft at all. Many who pvp too, and are damn good at it. We don't all fit the stereotypical female gamer profile that male gamers give us, I can promise you that.

Anyhoo, we got off-topic a bit didn't we? lol Sorry, I just wanted to throw in my side of that particular subject.

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Well, I was trying to express, what in my experience - has been the overriding basic motivations to craft. And it's very true - we can spot each other far easier than men can spot us. There was a study once about motivations for different activities - not only crafting, what was important. The part of it I found most interesting was the older male gamers got - the closer their priority lists started to shift towards their female counterparts. This may not be as much a gender thing as it is an age thing. One thing about crafting - it takes longterm planning and patience. While a 15yr old male certainly CAN display these qualities - he wouldn't be the norm for his demographic.