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Slarus wrote:

These are the two main reasons SWG sux so bad. They seemed to have tried this new approach to gaming, just laying down red carpet and holding the gamers hand, making it real easy to be what the gamer wants to be to basicly give the gamer a false sense of glory.

The problem with this approach is that appeals to a very small crowd of power gaming goons, the rejects of other MMORPGs'

This free ridestyle does not appeal to the normal gamer who seeks a challenge, who likes to combine his characters skills into a strategy with others.

They most certainly did not design the game to intensionally be so easy as you'd like to put it, that is a misleading statement.

Then why is the game the way it is now, short sightedness by the DEV's that players would camp static spawns for the good stuff like fire spider venom or acklay bones....

The DEV's allowed the game to fall into its current state not the gamers.

In EQ's you do this all the time, you don't get some cheat code style health to go solo every mob in the game. This is what made EQ a success. In SWG ninja looting is rampant, KSing, everything that will get you blacklisted in EQ is accepted in SWG because youre not forced to play on any level with other gamers.

Your kidding right? I mean the number one biggest complaint in EQ is that most classes cant solo. Also in City of Heroes which is rivaling SWG in numbers you CAN solo and MOST people have no problem. The real problem is power gamers want to be the only ones who can solo, they dont want anyone else too so they complain here with the same arguement as you. Ninja looting, KSing is a real problem though.

A power gamer will level out thier character then move on to the next game, its what they do blow though a game to the next.

One of the reason I am quiting SWG is the fact I can solo anything in the game given enough time,what is the point in fighting something when you know you will win.

It is to easy at this point.

Its a bunch of scumbags doing whatever they want to do because their is no consequence., They don't have to coexist peacefully with others simply because it does not threaten to hold their character back from mastering. In EQ you cannot master or level without co-oping, and things like ninja looting and KSing will get you blacklisted, and basicly your character is going no where once that happens.

It happens in EQ too as for mastering, you cant "master" unless you have 30-72 people online together for 3-6 hours for raids, which we have found in EQ is impractical and nightmarish, smaller group and solo play is a blessing to all but powergamers.

This I do have to agree with youthough so far I have not run into this in EQ2, my last hallmark mission was a solo one.

It was a pain in the ass to get players up for JTL tier 4 missions esp since they were a hour long.

The devs of SWG made the mistake of assuming by hooking up these types of ass players with an easy ride to the top that they would be attract a multitude and be this huge success in the end. Well you can easily see how wrong their assumption was...

They assumed that everyone is a goon that loves cheat codes so they designed SWG for that type of gamer it seems. The guy who wants to beat every game in a week just to tell ppl he did. They strive to appease those who want very little conflict or tragedy involved with character death, the ppl who like soft ass games.

They failed to attract the majority of gamers who appreciate challenging, conflict ensued games, and failed over all imo. They should have takenthe opposite approach and said screw the goons and lets hook up the gamers. Their whole plan backfired on them. Now we got a yahoo chatroom basicly with star wars graphics with a galaga arcade game grafted on to it.

It could have been so much by simply adding TEFs and such, you know so your not imperial blowing up imperials, and you can protect the imperial fleet if another player attacks imperial NPC's but no.. This would go against their whole philosophy of pro-carebearism.

This is rediculous casual gamers are not the bad guys, they want to be able to progress through in the time they are given, it is powergamers who will figure out how to blow through any MMO in weeks that are most affected by what you'd call an easier game. All I can see is you are trolling to irritate the majority of the crowd, your arguements have no basis in fact.

Slarus SWG creates the power gamer attitiude, since you can not really do well till you mastera proffession, you need money to afford the armor, the weapons, and its a race to Master where your best specials are in the combat proffesions and in the Artisan proffesions where your best skematics are.

Once people found money is what makes the game go they started solo groups, why because at master level most of those missions could be run solo so they could buy the things they wanted, like AV-21's, or high end DOT weapons.

Then the DEV's made missions like DWB and Corvette missions where only the power gamer could excel and the non stacker proffesion players were at a huge disadvantage.

The Devs of SWG have made a lot of bad choices in direction for the game and are now trying to figure out how to reverse some of that but I just feel they waited to long and most players have moved on, there may be a resurgence when the last movie comes out, but that wont last as most people will quickly become aware of the short comings built into the game and move on to more balanced games.

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Slarus wrote:

Then why is the game the way it is now, short sightedness by the DEV's that players would camp static spawns for the good stuff like fire spider venom or acklay bones....

The DEV's allowed the game to fall into its current state not the gamers.

Do you know how many games have camping problems? It is easier to tell which ones dont.

That is a development problem though, Acklay spawns in 1 location ever 2 hours..

They could have had it random spawn anywhere on Yavin 4 but instead they put it on a cave, thus creating a camping situation.

A power gamer will level out thier character then move on to the next game, its what they do blow though a game to the next.

One of the reason I am quiting SWG is the fact I can solo anything in the game given enough time,what is the point in fighting something when you know you will win.

It is to easy at this point.

They gotta show off, whine about lack of content then when it doesnt get handed to them, then they leave. They dont play 3 weeks master all content and go, that is silly.

There is really no way to show off in SWG except the tag above your character and even that does not mater as Jedi was the hardest and now is rather common.

This I do have to agree with youthough so far I have not run into this in EQ2, my last hallmark mission was a solo one.

It was a pain in the ass to get players up for JTL tier 4 missions esp since they were a hour long.

So you need a game you can solo, group and raid in. only know of one that works well on all those and this aint one of em.

SWG used to be fun where you could do all these things though raid was a PvP event normally.

Slarus SWG creates the power gamer attitiude, since you can not really do well till you mastera proffession, you need money to afford the armor, the weapons, and its a race to Master where your best specials are in the combat proffesions and in the Artisan proffesions where your best skematics are.

So does EQ, EQ2, UO, etc..

Not to the extent that SWG does, you can master any profession in the game in under 24 hours with the exceptions of Jedi, merchant, Politician.

Once people found money is what makes the game go they started solo groups, why because at master level most of those missions could be run solo so they could buy the things they wanted, like AV-21's, or high end DOT weapons.

Then the DEV's made missions like DWB and Corvette missions where only the power gamer could excel and the non stacker proffesion players were at a huge disadvantage.

Yes they bow to the small powergamer group, and becuase of those we KNOW Powergamers stick around for more then just mastering.

No they wanted to limit the content more so they increased the mobs, as stackers were able to solo the vette, while normaly players grouped could finish it as well. They made it where a stacker could not finish it solo but that also limited the number of group players who could finish it as well.

The Devs of SWG have made a lot of bad choices in direction for the game and are now trying to figure out how to reverse some of that but I just feel they waited to long and most players have moved on, there may be a resurgence when the last movie comes out, but that wont last as most people will quickly become aware of the short comings built into the game and move on to more balanced games.

We can only hope but as of yet the "fixes" keep the rich, rich and newbies unable to excel.

which will not change due to a player economy, The Weaponsmiths with money can aford the items they need to make strong weapons and sell higher then everyone else, buy the stuff to make them selves 12 point experimenters, afford to keep those trying to join thier ranks as 12 exp from doing so.

The high end stuff will always cost mega money, untill either they become common, or the demand drops.

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Slarus wrote:

Click on this link and read what it says, and you can believe it too! Clicky!

So what, cause SOE calls a multiplayer sim an MMO now we must bow to you, try looking up what an MMORPG is, what the shortened term is MMO, and stop feeding this crap that the maker of the game who is trying to sell a product slings. MMO is short for MMORPG.

Or you can drop it, or we can agree to disagree, or you can prattle on I dont really care I got all day to throw it back to you as well.

you know what everything can be an MMO, pong, chess, taking a wiz standing up, it's all an MMO. lets call it all an MMO till we have no meaning for the word, isn't that rad, dude? The point is now that the term has been created everyone uses it as a selling point it doesnt matter if the term only loosely applies to the game in question or not, but MMO has it roots and is defined by being an Massive Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game, not an Internet game, ther have been many of those before and after MMO term was coined, and before they werent MMOs, but now they'd call themselves that. Internet poker is an MMO if we water down the meaning too.

Message Edited by Slarus on 01-03-2005 07:10 PM

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The only defining factor of a MMOG or MMORPG is Pay to play.

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LRRCP wrote:

The only defining factor of a MMOG or MMORPG is Pay to play.

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Not necessarily. Most of them are pay to play, but there're free MMOGs out there where you can simply download and play. The basicdefining factorof MMOGis theexistence of a persistent world.

Message Edited by Amuro0079 on 01-05-2005 03:04 PM

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Amuro0079 wrote:

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LRRCP wrote:

The only defining factor of a MMOG or MMORPG is Pay to play.

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Not necessarily. Most of them are pay to play, but there're free MMOGs out there where you can simply download and play. The basicdefining factorof MMOGis theexistence of a persistent world.

Message Edited by Amuro0079 on 01-05-2005 03:04 PM

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Starson wrote:

Face it guys noone wants to pvp. No damage, no reward, no reason, no nothing....so what is the point.

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Those reasons are simplistic.

Personally I am one of those that like both PVE and PVP.

There is ground PVP and not space

You fail to point out the glaring reason why people do not space pvp as opposed to ground

Both ground and space pvp have no damage with the small exception that you get wounds in ground (no decay in either)

Both ground and space pvpv have little or no reward

Ground your equipment means seomething to survival

Space your equiment means nothing, everything including the largest player ship with the best equipment is a one shot kill making chassis variation non existant in what will survive in space pvp....... BORING

No one in PVE cares if you get rewards or badges, they get rewards and badges. The problem is the hard core PVP'er are a minority and come up with things that alianate the majority. However there is a large block of players like muself that enjor both pve and pvp. Try not alianating the PVE/PVP players and you would get some support.

Lets look at how the whole kessel situation was handled

The hard core PVP crowd made the incorrect assumption that PVP was required to master. In fact ZERO pvp was ever required to master pilot. What was required was 2 PVE missions loctated in a PVP zone. Then a small minority of the PVP community then though "kill at all costs to gate people" which included load ganking and forming gank squads to jump people when they were in combat with 3 or 4 tier 5's. Basically grieving.

Stop alianating the PVE crowd so you can get the backing of those that enjoy both

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LRRCP wrote:

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Amuro0079 wrote:

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LRRCP wrote:

The only defining factor of a MMOG or MMORPG is Pay to play.

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Not necessarily. Most of them are pay to play, but there're free MMOGs out there where you can simply download and play. The basicdefining factorof MMOGis theexistence of a persistent world.

Message Edited by Amuro0079 on 01-05-2005 03:04 PM

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Amuro make up your mind.... There are no MMO's that i know of that are free because of the economics of running a net work with hundreds of players on a single server,any company that wants to foot the bill of running all the network for a MMOG will not last long.

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You don't know doesn't mean there isn't any;it just shows your lack of knowledgethat's all. Go do yourself a favor, type 'free MMORPG' in a search engine and see for yourself.

Edit

Here's one:

http://www.conqueronline.com/?OVRAW=free%20mmorpg&OVKEY=free%20mmorpg&OVMTC=standard

Got it from searching yahoo.com. And there're tons of other's that are totally free2play; Conquer Online was just the first one on the list.

Message Edited by Amuro0079 on 01-06-2005 10:07 AM

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Scoooter wrote:

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Starson wrote:

Face it guys noone wants to pvp. No damage, no reward, no reason, no nothing....so what is the point.

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Those reasons are simplistic.

Personally I am one of those that like both PVE and PVP.

There is ground PVP and not space

You fail to point out the glaring reason why people do not space pvp as opposed to ground

Both ground and space pvp have no damage with the small exception that you get wounds in ground (no decay in either)

Both ground and space pvpv have little or no reward

Ground your equipment means seomething to survival

Space your equiment means nothing, everything including the largest player ship with the best equipment is a one shot kill making chassis variation non existant in what will survive in space pvp....... BORING

No one in PVE cares if you get rewards or badges, they get rewards and badges. The problem is the hard core PVP'er are a minority and come up with things that alianate the majority. However there is a large block of players like muself that enjor both pve and pvp. Try not alianating the PVE/PVP players and you would get some support.

Lets look at how the whole kessel situation was handled

The hard core PVP crowd made the incorrect assumption that PVP was required to master. In fact ZERO pvp was ever required to master pilot. What was required was 2 PVE missions loctated in a PVP zone. Then a small minority of the PVP community then though "kill at all costs to gate people" which included load ganking and forming gank squads to jump people when they were in combat with 3 or 4 tier 5's. Basically grieving.

Stop alianating the PVE crowd so you can get the backing of those that enjoy both

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Yes it was ment to be simplistic, I to enjoy good pvp, as well as pve. I am just one of those 'good guys' that need a reason to go out and kill. I need a mission, or group function, I just don't go out and random kill, even on the ground.

All they'd need to do is tie PvP kills in space to your PvP ranking, and half of every server would overt in orbit.

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Starson wrote:

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Scoooter wrote:

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Starson wrote:

Face it guys noone wants to pvp. No damage, no reward, no reason, no nothing....so what is the point.

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Those reasons are simplistic.

Personally I am one of those that like both PVE and PVP.

There is ground PVP and not space

You fail to point out the glaring reason why people do not space pvp as opposed to ground

Both ground and space pvp have no damage with the small exception that you get wounds in ground (no decay in either)

Both ground and space pvpv have little or no reward

Ground your equipment means seomething to survival

Space your equiment means nothing, everything including the largest player ship with the best equipment is a one shot kill making chassis variation non existant in what will survive in space pvp....... BORING

No one in PVE cares if you get rewards or badges, they get rewards and badges. The problem is the hard core PVP'er are a minority and come up with things that alianate the majority. However there is a large block of players like muself that enjor both pve and pvp. Try not alianating the PVE/PVP players and you would get some support.

Lets look at how the whole kessel situation was handled

The hard core PVP crowd made the incorrect assumption that PVP was required to master. In fact ZERO pvp was ever required to master pilot. What was required was 2 PVE missions loctated in a PVP zone. Then a small minority of the PVP community then though "kill at all costs to gate people" which included load ganking and forming gank squads to jump people when they were in combat with 3 or 4 tier 5's. Basically grieving.

Stop alianating the PVE crowd so you can get the backing of those that enjoy both

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Yes it was ment to be simplistic, I to enjoy good pvp, as well as pve. I am just one of those 'good guys' that need a reason to go out and kill. I need a mission, or group function, I just don't go out and random kill, even on the ground.

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Well I would very well doubt the PVE'ers will care if there is a kill board, or badges for pvpers

PVP should be encouraged as a choice, its just when the two cross that everyone needs to be more aware of each others side in the issue. Which was the case with kessel. But to tell you the truth Kessel could have stayed as it was if they had just fixed the pvp issues instead but the time required would not stop the grieving in time.