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Thread: Space PvP needs more help

Slarus
Thu Dec 30, 2004 12:55 pm
#92

Leaderboards/ Kill Count listings are completely pointless. I spent 3 months from novice pilot to master pilot. Only took that long because I was unable to find a squad to take out the corvette.


You must be one of the smartest people here. Yes it's true a leaderboard/counter is pointless to a great deal of people, it only has the value you feel it should have and it isnt content, but would it hurt? Would those that like to view and are proud of such stats find use for it. My question is, would it hurt the game to have? No it wouldnt, but some would find it useless.


What JtL needs is two things, in my opinion:


1- Renewable content:(It has some, but is very limited) This is content that has a purpose yet can be done over and over again.


Again great idea, City of Heroes does this... Oh wait some people complain about the endless cookie cutter missions with a few decent orginal ones.


2- Content outside of combat: Space Stations, Smuggling, Bounty Hunting (npc's, not Jedi), Mining, Space Stations and other facilities that the players can walk around in or get mission to dock in.


Again good ideas, these maybe in development or concept, I have heard some rumor to content like this but again some folks will wipe through it in weeks or days, some will find it boring altogether and some will enjoy it.


However, I fully agree that right now, things like this aren't going to happen. The devs are full with the CU and that's just the way it is. I'm glad they got combat in space reasonably correct, this way when it's time for JtL content, it doesn't come at the expense of leaving the combat system in shambles (cough, ground game, cough)


And my point is if you could do everything at once folks will cut through it in days or weeks and be right back here complaining about lack of content or boring content. If you introduce a bit at a time the same folks will complain but casual players (The vast Majority) will not feel overwhelmed and enjoy it.


We need baby steps not huge goals that will be broken, quick to finish or what not. Some folks on these boards will not be pleased EVER. If the devs could do EVERYTHING they ask for, they'd complain about the speed of implementation or quaility or that the "fan" ideas they had, really do suck. Offical and unoffical boards= Complaint fest, they rarely provide actual bankable ideas as someone goes on a rant about anything.


only you can decide if it is worth the investment of time to wait for the game to evlove or quit and come back later when features you want are in place, but dont stay if your unhappy that is rule number 1.
TotalJerk
Sat Jan 01, 2005 12:31 am
#93
I agree with blackjack about an online kill board. I played subspace for years and they had a similar scoreboard. You could track your progress and quality of your kills. It was a lot of fun.
Vicotnik
Sun Jan 02, 2005 3:54 pm
#94




Slarus wrote:

Looking at PS it is a combat simulator game and not much else, all you do is fight. The only reason you can call it an MMO is that it is multiplayer over a network, but it is no where close to SWG or any other MMO that the term actually comes from. MMO is short for MMORPG or Massive Multiplayer Online Rolplaying Game, not a flight sim.



Well, this reply is obviously a few days too late, but you are quite wrong. The reason you can call PS a MMO is because that is just what it is: A Massive Multiplayer Online game. MMO is just a part of any MMOXXX abreviation out there. MMO does not equal a roleplaying game, however MMORPG does.


This is all pretty pointless in this discussion, however.




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Particle effects, BAD!!! Nice, realistic graphics, GOOD!!!
Slarus
Sun Jan 02, 2005 7:59 pm
#95

Well, this reply is obviously a few days too late, but you are quite wrong. The reason you can call PS a MMO is because that is just what it is: A Massive Multiplayer Online game. MMO is just a part of any MMOXXX abreviation out there. MMO does not equal a roleplaying game, however MMORPG does.


This is all pretty pointless in this discussion, however.



For being pointless you seem adamant on continuing to argue, sadly MMO is often used as the shortened version of MMORPG, I havent seen any games refered to as MMO that is not an MMORPG, but you believe it however you want.

LRRCP
Mon Jan 03, 2005 12:14 am
#96




Slarus wrote:


Salars I have better thing to do then argue with fools like you in the forums, you do not seem to understand and refuse to see another point of view, you are closed minded..


They could have done a lot with JTL but they did not, missions that cap off at master become boring and most players only use it now for free transport and loot money.


I want group interaction in PVP combat in space, like many of the flight sims do have and is intresting enough to keep people hooked on it for years.


JTL keep people for weeks before A) they get bored with it, orB) they master it.


And your lag issue will be fixed on its own as more people drop this game for better ones on the market, if the CU is a floop then look for server mergers soon after.



Well takes a fool to spot a damned fool, but I do agree they could have done more with JTL, but the vast majority of players didnt master piloting in the first 3 weeks. If you spend a year developing content and a few players finish it in weeks what can you do?


If you mastered in the first month you will NEVER be satisfied, the devs will never give you enough content on that I am 100% sure of. Even with PvP missions I would bet my paycheck folks like you and others will be right back here in a few weeks after it is implemented complaining about lack of content.


When your only expectation is flying and fighting, why would you want more? SWG is an RPG but people get obsessed with "mastering" getting the good loots, the badges and etc. With more to do, people will find more to complain about. In reality the flight sim may have been around for years but the majority of players come and go just like an MMO, only the hardcores stay for long periods and it doesnt mean they arent shopping for the next great thing so your trying to mislead us into thinking Flight sims are superior in player retension and that is not true. I played Air Warrior till I got bored and moved on as did many more people then those that stayed.







The biggest mistake in life is a assumption...


Most players I knew in SWG are now playing EQ2. some were hard core PvP, but they were that way because that was all SWG had left for them..


They love EQ2 simply because they can not master in a short time period.


The Graphics are far better the SWG, the game has many high level mobs that can not be soloed.


JTL could have had a lot more added in, like asteroid mining, player owned stations, ect, but they did not, now they are offering a free 10 day trial account for JTL.


Point blank SWG is a dead horse that now not even the Combat revamp will save, look for sever consolidation in the near future.


Many of those I know who remained are only working on unlocking thier jedi character and many are getting bored with that grind.

Golrok
Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:15 am
#97







They love EQ2 simply because they can not master in a short time period.


the game has many high level mobs that can not be soloed.





These are the two main reasons SWG sux so bad. They seemed to have tried this new approach to gaming, just laying down red carpet and holding the gamers hand, making it real easy to be what the gamer wants to be to basicly give the gamer a false sense of glory.


The problem with this approach is that appeals to a very small crowd of power gaming goons, the rejects of other MMORPGs'

This free ridestyle does not appeal to the normal gamer who seeks a challenge, who likes to combine his characters skills into a strategy with others.


In EQ's you do this all the time, you don't get some cheat code style health to go solo every mob in the game. This is what made EQ a success. In SWG ninja looting is rampant, KSing, everything that will get you blacklisted in EQ is accepted in SWG because youre not forced to play on any level with other gamers.


Its a bunch of scumbags doing whatever they want to do because their is no consequence., They don't have to coexist peacefully with others simply because it does not threaten to hold their character back from mastering. In EQ you cannot master or level without co-oping, and things like ninja looting and KSing will get you blacklisted, and basicly your character is going no where once that happens.


The devs of SWG made the mistake of assuming by hooking up these types of ass players with an easy ride to the top that they would be attract a multitude and be this huge success in the end. Well you can easily see how wrong their assumption was...


They assumed that everyone is a goon that loves cheat codes so they designed SWG for that type of gamer it seems. The guy who wants to beat every game in a week just to tell ppl he did. They strive to appease those who want very little conflict or tragedy involved with character death, the ppl who like soft ass games.


They failed to attract the majority of gamers who appreciate challenging, conflict ensued games, and failed over all imo. They should have takenthe opposite approach and said screw the goons and lets hook up the gamers. Their whole plan backfired on them. Now we got a yahoo chatroom basicly with star wars graphics with a galaga arcade game grafted on to it.


It could have been so much by simply adding TEFs and such, you know so your not imperial blowing up imperials, and you can protect the imperial fleet if another player attacks imperial NPC's but no.. This would go against their whole philosophy of pro-carebearism.

Slarus
Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:52 am
#98

These are the two main reasons SWG sux so bad. They seemed to have tried this new approach to gaming, just laying down red carpet and holding the gamers hand, making it real easy to be what the gamer wants to be to basicly give the gamer a false sense of glory.


The problem with this approach is that appeals to a very small crowd of power gaming goons, the rejects of other MMORPGs'

This free ridestyle does not appeal to the normal gamer who seeks a challenge, who likes to combine his characters skills into a strategy with others.


They most certainly did not design the game to intensionally be so easy as you'd like to put it, that is a misleading statement.


In EQ's you do this all the time, you don't get some cheat code style health to go solo every mob in the game. This is what made EQ a success. In SWG ninja looting is rampant, KSing, everything that will get you blacklisted in EQ is accepted in SWG because youre not forced to play on any level with other gamers.


Your kidding right? I mean the number one biggest complaint in EQ is that most classes cant solo. Also in City of Heroes which is rivaling SWG in numbers you CAN solo and MOST people have no problem. The real problem is power gamers want to be the only ones who can solo, they dont want anyone else too so they complain here with the same arguement as you. Ninja looting, KSing is a real problem though.


Its a bunch of scumbags doing whatever they want to do because their is no consequence., They don't have to coexist peacefully with others simply because it does not threaten to hold their character back from mastering. In EQ you cannot master or level without co-oping, and things like ninja looting and KSing will get you blacklisted, and basicly your character is going no where once that happens.


It happens in EQ too as for mastering, you cant "master" unless you have 30-72 people online together for 3-6 hours for raids, which we have found in EQ is impractical and nightmarish, smaller group and solo play is a blessing to all but powergamers.


The devs of SWG made the mistake of assuming by hooking up these types of ass players with an easy ride to the top that they would be attract a multitude and be this huge success in the end. Well you can easily see how wrong their assumption was...


They assumed that everyone is a goon that loves cheat codes so they designed SWG for that type of gamer it seems. The guy who wants to beat every game in a week just to tell ppl he did. They strive to appease those who want very little conflict or tragedy involved with character death, the ppl who like soft ass games.


They failed to attract the majority of gamers who appreciate challenging, conflict ensued games, and failed over all imo. They should have takenthe opposite approach and said screw the goons and lets hook up the gamers. Their whole plan backfired on them. Now we got a yahoo chatroom basicly with star wars graphics with a galaga arcade game grafted on to it.


It could have been so much by simply adding TEFs and such, you know so your not imperial blowing up imperials, and you can protect the imperial fleet if another player attacks imperial NPC's but no.. This would go against their whole philosophy of pro-carebearism.


This is rediculous casual gamers are not the bad guys, they want to be able to progress through in the time they are given, it is powergamers who will figure out how to blow through any MMO in weeks that are most affected by what you'd call an easier game. All I can see is you are trolling to irritate the majority of the crowd, your arguements have no basis in fact.
Vicotnik
Mon Jan 03, 2005 5:57 pm
#99


Slarus wrote:


Well, this reply is obviously a few days too late, but you are quite wrong. The reason you can call PS a MMO is because that is just what it is: A Massive Multiplayer Online game. MMO is just a part of any MMOXXX abreviation out there. MMO does not equal a roleplaying game, however MMORPG does.


This is all pretty pointless in this discussion, however.


For being pointless you seem adamant on continuing to argue, sadly MMO is often used as the shortened version of MMORPG, I havent seen any games refered to as MMO that is not an MMORPG, but you believe it however you want.


Click on this link and read what it says, and you can believe it too! Clicky!




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Particle effects, BAD!!! Nice, realistic graphics, GOOD!!!
Slarus
Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:52 pm
#100

Then why is the game the way it is now, short sightedness by the DEV's that players would camp static spawns for the good stuff like fire spider venom or acklay bones....

The DEV's allowed the game to fall into its current state not the gamers.


Do you know how many games have camping problems? It is easier to tell which ones dont.



A power gamer will level out thier character then move on to the next game, its what they do blow though a game to the next.

One of the reason I am quiting SWG is the fact I can solo anything in the game given enough time,what is the point in fighting something when you know you will win.

It is to easy at this point.


They gotta show off, whine about lack of content then when it doesnt get handed to them, then they leave. They dont play 3 weeks master all content and go, that is silly.



This I do have to agree with youthough so far I have not run into this in EQ2, my last hallmark mission was a solo one.

It was a pain in the ass to get players up for JTL tier 4 missions esp since they were a hour long.


So you need a game you can solo, group and raid in. only know of one that works well on all those and this aint one of em.



Slarus SWG creates the power gamer attitiude, since you can not really do well till you mastera proffession, you need money to afford the armor, the weapons, and its a race to Master where your best specials are in the combat proffesions and in the Artisan proffesions where your best skematics are.


So does EQ, EQ2, UO, etc..


Once people found money is what makes the game go they started solo groups, why because at master level most of those missions could be run solo so they could buy the things they wanted, like AV-21's, or high end DOT weapons.


Then the DEV's made missions like DWB and Corvette missions where only the power gamer could excel and the non stacker proffesion players were at a huge disadvantage.


Yes they bow to the small powergamer group, and becuase of those we KNOW Powergamers stick around for more then just mastering.


The Devs of SWG have made a lot of bad choices in direction for the game and are now trying to figure out how to reverse some of that but I just feel they waited to long and most players have moved on, there may be a resurgence when the last movie comes out, but that wont last as most people will quickly become aware of the short comings built into the game and move on to more balanced games.


We can only hope but as of yet the "fixes" keep the rich, rich and newbies unable to excel.

Slarus
Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:55 pm
#101



Click on this link and read what it says, and you can believe it too! Clicky!


So what, cause SOE calls a multiplayer sim an MMO now we must bow to you, try looking up what an MMORPG is, what the shortened term is MMO, and stop feeding this crap that the maker of the game who is trying to sell a product slings. MMO is short for MMORPG.


Or you can drop it, or we can agree to disagree, or you can prattle on I dont really care I got all day to throw it back to you as well.


you know what everything can be an MMO, pong, chess, taking a wiz standing up, it's all an MMO. lets call it all an MMO till we have no meaning for the word, isn't that rad, dude? The point is now that the term has been created everyone uses it as a selling point it doesnt matter if the term only loosely applies to the game in question or not, but MMO has it roots and is defined by being an Massive Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game, not an Internet game, ther have been many of those before and after MMO term was coined, and before they werent MMOs, but now they'd call themselves that. Internet poker is an MMO if we water down the meaning too.

Message Edited by Slarus on 01-03-2005 07:10 PM

Starson
Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:09 pm
#102
A rose, by any other name is still a rose, (and a pile of crap....). I just couldn't help myself guys, yall been going at it on this thread way to long.



Starrwalker, The Barefoot Ranger
MPilot/MRanger/TKM
Awing/Recon "First in, Last out"
Alliance Major
Eclipse (LOK)
Slarus
Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:14 pm
#103



A rose, by any other name is still a rose, (and a pile of crap....). I just couldn't help myself guys, yall been going at it on this thread way to long.


That's cause we're all stubborn as a 4 legged animal.


Sure just one star every post, that makes you right...or pathetic dont remember which.

Message Edited by Slarus on 01-03-2005 09:24 PM

Polku
Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:49 pm
#104
PvP needs balancing. Its just who shoots first, every ship blows up instantly (if you use at least good weapons). Make it so you can have dogfights and have a chance to shoot back. As for reward. If you got blown up in pvp, the other loots your credit ship with what ever is on it.

Things i dream of: Live events in space! I can imagine so much potential there... Just spawn a corvette in a sector, send message to rebel/imp pilots nearby to defend/destroy. Spawn masses of Ties/whatever...
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