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Thread: Good or Bad news.

Kakron21
Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:29 am
#105

It's funny how much response this is getting...



Scylla
Chaak - Jedi Padawan
Ihareo
Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:34 am
#106


Slarus wrote:

Decipher made a SW card game, LA ended the contract but did they use the game decipher sold? No and why is that? They didnt own the intelectual rights to the game, the same thing happen to West End games makers of the SW RPG, when the contract ended LA got WotC to produce both games, and the SW RPG was D20 not D6 from West End, as LA did not own the intelectual rights to that system.




OK...

West End Games did not have the contract pulled, NOR was the contract not renued for any reason.

West End Games went bankrupt. Wizards of the Coast picked up the Star Wars licence.



Desipher Games LOST the contract to the Star Wars card game for REPETED FAILURE TO MEET DEADLINES, just like theyre getting close to losing the StarTrek and Lord of the Rings licences for the same reason. Decipher is notorious for their innability to meet production promises. THAT's why the Star Wars CCG got pulled.


Now that that's out of my system, Lucas Arts isn't taking SWG from SOE. They are hiring a Sr. Director of Star Wars Galaxies. That's all.

EVERYTHING ELSE IS RUMORS.

Message Edited by Ihareo on 10-17-2004 07:39 AM




Ihareo Imtame--Adept of the Force
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Slarus
Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:17 am
#107


And are you a copyright lawyer or a product developer? I can tell you this LUCAS has always been stickler when it deals with intellectual property... and if history repeats itself your assumptions are just that.


Yeah they are sticklers with intellectual property, when it is thiers.


Where have you been? There are so many combat systems that are far superior to what currently exsist so exactly what do really love about the exsisting system.


Oh no mycharacter might be deleted, its a game.


Well then why not cancel your account it's clear really nothing is keeping you here.


Re-read the fine print and do some proper research instead of blowing hot air, unless you can actually show me the signed contract what your saying is simply hearsay.


Touched a nerve did I, sorry. If SWG ends we have no recourse, yep your right, doesnt prove your point, it supports mine, that if LA took over contracted a new company to create a new SWG we would lose all our hard work, you absolutly correct thanks.


I'm not a lawyer, but in order to be a designer you need to know the basics of the law or you get hosed if you dont know what your rights are you WILL be ripped off so we study law even in art classes, shocking.As LordReaver pointed out in that example you can own content but not system. SOE would not have signed a deal handing over ALL rights, not unless LA paid a huge sum of money and then SOE would not have any invovlement past initial design, which does not seem to be the case. Yes there are circumstances when the creator sells his/her art and all rights but you pay through the nose to do it and then the artist goes bye-bye and folks copyright laws are about the same for games as they are for fine art, hard to believe unless you have been educated in this.


Thank you LordReaver, copyrights are a tricky thing but you explained it pretty well.

Slarus
Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:23 am
#108

West End Games did not have the contract pulled, NOR was the contract not renued for any reason.

West End Games went bankrupt. Wizards of the Coast picked up the Star Wars licence, Wizkids picked up all the other licences (hence their butchering ShadowRun and Battletech) and FASA owned Shadow run and Battletech not West end, FASA decided to close shop and Wizkids bought those licences.


Desipher Games LOST the contract to the Star Wars card game for REPETED FAILURE TO MEET DEADLINES, just like theyre getting close to losing the StarTrek and Lord of the Rings licences for the same reason. Decipher is notorious for their innability to meet production promises. THAT's why the Star Wars CCG got pulled.


West End games current offers the d6 system as a one time fee open gaming licence, banruptcy doesnt mean gone, but thanks for pointing out the details, I wasnt positive to the exact reason for the split, which isnt really an issue but thanks anyway. My point anyway wasn't that these systems failed. West End money problems, Decipher deadlines. So if LA buys all rights they could have contracted Wizards to do Star Wars RPG in d6 and used the Decipher system for the CCG, since neither system failed why not you have a fan base already? Well they did not own the systems, that was my point, so they had to design new games.


but thanks again for the corrections, they did help.


C0RAX
Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:45 am
#109








Slarus wrote:


Yeah they are sticklers with intellectual property, when it is thiers.





Maybe you can answer this Slarus, during the 3 years of SWGs development, who financed the project?


The engine, combat system, etc. etc. was developed by SOE around Star Wars content. I could only assume that a large part of the game's proprietary and intellectual property still belong to LUCAS, which includes the development around the Star Wars content. I can only speculate about SOEs position, but I'm 100% certain that LUCAS has always strived to be independent of the corporate conglomerate. Ironically they've become what they most feared, but that's another story.


Fact, a year after release of SWG, SOE announces its release of EQ2. Let us speculate once more, since EQ2 is a direct competitor to SWG and its future expansions doesn't this actually conflict with LUCAS' interests. If you own SWG what would you do when your publisher is 'cutting your grass'?


Since we're all speculating for all we know this was already planned since day one, maybe it was part of the contract, SOE to develop an open code then pass it on after the game went live. This was the only logical recourse for LUCAS since SOE had the know how and previous succesful experience with EQ.


I understand your point of view about SOEs position, but I don't mean to discredit you but your argument is based on a lot of speculation. I'm a practicing Industrial Designer for over 13 years I know all about being hosed... as a product designer you never sign off any intellectual property that belongs to you... art class does not really speak on how much experience you really have in the real world.


And please Slarus spare me your poor attempts in provoking me to rant about your nonsense.

Message Edited by C0RAX on 10-13-2004 11:24 PM



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Slarus
Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:29 pm
#110

I dont appriciate you insulting me then agreeing with me in your posts.



Maybe you can answer this Slarus, during the 3 years of SWGs development, who financed the project?


The engine, combat system, etc. etc. was developed by SOE around Star Wars content. I could only assume that a large part of the game's proprietary and intellectual property still belong to LUCAS, which includes the development around the Star Wars content. I can only speculate about SOEs position, but I'm 100% certain that LUCAS has always strived to be independent of the corporate conglomerate. Ironically they've become what they most feared, but that's another story.


You say it right here "The engine, combat system, etc. etc. was developed by SOE"SOE developed the engine, the combat system, they then as per the licence matched it with Star Wars content, which is names, titles, locations and some professions. There is a difference between content and the engine and combat system both realistically and legally. It doesnt matter who finaced it unless LA bought or owns ALL RIGHTS associated with the game mechanics and content. Your arguning with yourself, and you clearly have no clue about game rights. You cant say someone is wrong out of conveience, Jedi were approved by LA and impletmented by SOE, to say LA is gonna take over because of Jedi and after one year of operation and steal SOEs intellectual property to support this absurd rumor is insulting to all of us.


Fact, a year after release of SWG, SOE announces its release of EQ2. Let us speculate once more, since EQ2 is a direct competitor to SWG and its future expansions doesn't this actually conflict with LUCAS' interests. If you own SWG what would you do when your publisher is 'cutting your grass'?


But see what is funny is SOE is competeing against itself if you put ALL MMORPGs in one catagory. EQ, EQ2 and SWG all under SOE all competitors, so I dont know where you intended to go with this, but it doesn't support any position you seem to take.


Since we're all speculating for all we know this was already planned since day one, maybe it was part of the contract, SOE to develop an open code then pass it on after the game went live. This was the only logical recourse for LUCAS since SOE had the know how and previous succesful experience with EQ.


This clearly did not happen since SOEs design team produces the expansions, designs and implements updates, performs CSR dudties. If it was all owned by LA, code and all, there would be no need for SOEs continued interaction, plus the fact I know of no game that this has happened, even if the compnay that makes the game shutdowns, all another company does is buy the rights to the code, engine however you want to call it. Most buy the copyrights and develop thier ownengine for a new game. The way the game works, the combat system is a different entity then the content contained in the game, there is a difference. Fabricating a rumor that only promotes Jedi hatred doesn't make this any less true.


I understand your point of view about SOEs position, but I don't mean to discredit you but your argument is based on a lot of speculation. I'm a practicing Industrial Designer for over 13 years I know all about being hosed... as a product designer you never sign off any intellectual property that belongs to you... art class does not really speak on how much experience you really have in the real world.


And please Slarus spare me your poor attempts in provoke me to rant about your nonsense.


If by speculation you mean industry standards and the obvious fact SOE has continued invovlement in the mechanics of this game, and runs the infrastructure then I guess those FACTS are what you call speculation, but I don't understand the dictionary's definition of Fact doesn't mention the word speculation so I think your confused.


"as a product designer you never sign off any intellectual property that belongs to you"


Which of course supports exactly why SOE did not sign off thier rights, they own the combat game system, not Lucas who owns Star Wars. SOE can make another game using the same combat/skill system, LA cannot, but SOE can't run SWG without LAs good graces I cant dumb this up anymore and for 13 years of ID I am not sure what kind of design you do but it is clearly not art, print, or multimedia as you clearly dont know anything about rights of intellectual property with creative medias.

Slarus
Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:17 pm
#111

From SOEs website:


Sony Online Entertainment Inc. (SOE), the online gaming division of Sony Pictures Digital Entertainment, is a worldwide leader in massively multiplayer online gaming that creates, develops and provides online entertainment for the personal computer, console, wireless, and online markets.
CitizenErased
Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:20 pm
#112

if lucas arts takes over and wants to restore continuity... and deletes all the jedi... what else would they delete? theres a lot of stuff in game that breaks continuity. would it all get deleted too?


sorry if this has been brought up but a lot of stuff has been said and im sick so im lazy



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KzinKiller
Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:09 pm
#113

Ok as it has been proven may times, this is a rumor.


It's been said a lot, it hasn't been proved once. You keep using that word, but I do not think it means what you think it means.




*
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CU-1 ... CU-2 ... CUL8R
Slarus
Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:13 pm
#114

Oh yes it has, there is a quote from SOE posted in this thread, and the absurdity of the reasoning behind the "Split" is as faulty as the thought of you keeping your character in SWG if SOE was indeed dropped.
KzinKiller
Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:14 pm
#115

You don't grasp that for many of us, a quote from an SOE exec is not credible. It's certainly not 'proof' of anything.




*
The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them
Albert Einstein

CU-1 ... CU-2 ... CUL8R
Slarus
Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:27 pm
#116

You don't grasp that for many of us, a quote from an SOE exec is not credible. It's certainly not 'proof' of anything.


Ahh so you believe in Aliens at White house dinners and that the 2004 election is about a war on terror and not the Supreme court. I understand now.


I live in reality the reasons behind the rumored split dont make sense, and the promise that Only Jedi will be affected when this take over occurs is the proof that it is rumor as Lucas doesn't own the game system, so they can't produce this game we play right now, SOE owns the system, the servers, and the staff for this game. If the rumor had said that Lucas was taking over, and the redesigned game would not have Jedi in it, then it would have been remotely credible, but it didnt, it said they would revamp this game, and only by removing Jedi.


I am sorry you believe this rumor, it's kinda sad but it's the 12% rule. the 12% rule states you can say anything off the wall and 12% of the people will believe it, welcome to the few, the proud the gullible.
Caine_Chapel
Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:33 pm
#117

If an SOE exec's word on this matter means nothing to you... then nothing will convince you from this rumor otherwise will it?

Thats' kinda funny... you'd believe a rumor started by some random guy on the internet over the world of someone who RUNS THE GAME...funny and kinda sad



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