Jump To Lightspeed Archive
Thread: Concerning the Pro's of Forced PvP Mastership......
Main Entry: pri·va·teer
Pronunciation: "prI-v&-'tir
Function: noun
****** : an armed private ship licensed to attack enemy shipping; also : a sailor on such a ship *******
In the case of what is enemy shipping. in the eyes of a privateer, its whatever his employer paid him to attack
Lets use the movies to help this out
Han Solo was a privateer and initially not involved in either side of the GCW. He decided to accept passengers who were wanted by the Empire and made a choice to evade the Imperial forces and attack them, all for some credits. Naturally he was open to attack by Imperial forces.
But all that aside, do not forget, yes you are open to PvP BUT SO IS THE OTHER GUY!!! he gives you crap take him out. This isnt like the ground war. All the buffs and Jedi dont mean squat. IF you beat him on the stick YOU win, not him! For the first time in this game you have near equal odds of winning in a PvP an encounter.
Hell, if you are good on the stick but have a weak ship, you have a real good shot at beating a guy who sucks on the stick but has a nice ship. Get yourself a good wingman and you could rule the roost.
The social values gained by team work to defeat players in a PVP zone will not be higher than the social values lost by PVE players getting killed in PVP when they absolutely don't want to.
Naquiel wrote:
Well it all depends one how you implement team work to defeat your simular problems with others in a social gathering of friends. Learn to deal with the problem and try to beat it. But if getting the master box was made really easy, then whats the point of a challanging game.
Vicotnik wrote:
TEAM WORK, SOCIAL VALUES, GAINING FRIENDS.....Will this due.
Nothing of the above justifies these missions. Hell, it doesn't even justify PVP at all. Teamwork, social values and gaining friends is as easy with PVE as with PVP. If not easier.
Kinshi wrote:
Well the case for imposed PvP for a Privateer isnt as clear cut as Reb or Imp but then again I consider the historical defintion of a privateer.
Main Entry: pri·va·teer
Pronunciation: "prI-v&-'tir
Function: noun
****** : an armed private ship licensed to attack enemy shipping; also : a sailor on such a ship *******
Too bad they are actually called Freelance pilots now, huh?
In the case of what is enemy shipping. in the eyes of a privateer, its whatever his employer paid him to attack
Lets use the movies to help this out
Han Solo was a privateer and initially not involved in either side of the GCW. He decided to accept passengers who were wanted by the Empire and made a choice to evade the Imperial forces and attack them, all for some credits. Naturally he was open to attack by Imperial forces.
He made the choice, yeah. We don't make similarchoices when we buy JTL. We have to PVP period. We don't make similar choices for our master box. We have to PVP. Period.
But all that aside, do not forget, yes you are open to PvP BUT SO IS THE OTHER GUY!!! he gives you crap take him out.
But people who don't like PVE wouldn't even want to do this. That is one of the many points.
This isnt like the ground war. All the buffs and Jedi dont mean squat. IF you beat him on the stick YOU win, not him! For the first time in this game you have near equal odds of winning in a PvP an encounter.
If you beat him, he comes back. For a PVE player it means NOTHING to win, they just wanna get their missions done and leave this behind them.
Hell, if you are good on the stick but have a weak ship, you have a real good shot at beating a guy who sucks on the stick but has a nice ship. Get yourself a good wingman and you could rule the roost.
Nah. A weak ship won't do much against a strong ship. It will take you too many shots to take them down, when all they need is one.
And once again: Nothing, I repeat: NOTHING of this justifies these missions.
Dolgan wrote:
Slarus, you dont seem to grasp it at all. PvP is NOT required to play the game. They have not misguided anyone. IFYOU CHOOSETO GO FOR MASTER WHICH IS A CHOICE NOT A FRIGGIN LAW! Then you have to abide by the rules in the game i.e PVP. You bleat on about it all you want, and make irrelevant analogys all you like, but thats how the game is now. Like it or lump it. It's your choice.
p.s maybe you need to keep that dictionary. It's drivers, not driers.
Nacoa wrote:
What, did you stay in one place the entire time? There's always Rebel and Imperial NPCs hyperspacing into the zone. Fly around and you'll find 30 fairly quickly. It'll take a while but most definately not hours.
Oh? Then explain to me why so many people doing the master missions spent HOURS just looking for enough ships to kill? Either you happened to get lucky, or you're remembering things wrong.
And since all you do after that is claim I'm lying, then I really don't see the point in responding to you. You do nothing but say "NUH UH!!!!" and make some claims that don't make sense. For example, killing a Corvette only takes about a minute once you know what you should be shooting at, so your claim that you'd run out of time is just dumb. The danger is the volume of fire against you, which can kill you in a few seconds, as well as the usual escorts of several fighters and gunboats.
Killing the Corvette is quick, yes I have never said anything else. However, each time you return to the zone its escorts are back. And that's the real problem: The escorts. Only thing you can do with these is to lure them off (at least as a rebel, the imperial bomber strike might keep them occupied), lure them a fair bit away and go in for an attack run on the Corvette.
Further the time you've got to kill the Corvette is not much, I think it stayed exactly one hour in Kessel when I did the mission. Also: The time you've got to kill it depends very much on when you find it. If you find it when it's newly spawned, you've got plenty of time. However, if you get killed you will have to respawn and repair. As a rebel, you respawn in Dantooine. (Which can't repair you fully), so you'll have to go to another system to repair fully. This means lost time, and lost time means that the Corvette has moved. The /way you did at death is not exactly accurate, so you will have to spend a few minutes locating it again.
So no, that claim is not dumb. Plenty of people ran out of time.
Look, there will be PvP people in the zone. They'll be fighting mission takers and other PvP'ers. There also will be non-PvP people in the zone. They're pretty easy to identify. If you don't want to PvP, don't fly within about 2km of an enemy PC. If they likewise don't want to PvP they'll ignore you. If they do want to PvP, you've got time to get ready for it.
That does absolutely nothing to justify this moronic mission design. "Get ready" and "bring friends" is the most common reply I find by pro people in threads like this. It's does ABSOLUTELY nothing to justify it.
And I still don't think it'll end up as a major gank fest, simply because there are going to be hardcore PvPers on both sides. They'll have to spend some time fighting each other and thus the players themselves will solve the problem by playing the game. The only danger I see is if the spawn points are not random or random enough so that they can be camped. They were pretty random when I did the master missions, and the devs also made all players invulnerable during loading and a few seconds after.
We'll see how this turns out. Maybe it will become a festival of grief, maybe not. What is certain though, is that it will be percieved as griefing by PVE players, and plenty of innocent PVPers will become branded as griefers.
Basically, I'm uneasy about master missions in a PvP zone, but I also think the anti-PvP people are overstating the potential griefing by several magnitudes.
The humorous thing here is that I'm a pro-PVP person, and these missions will do nothing to promote PVP -just hurt it.
I'm STILL waiting for someone to answer me this:
What is the point of these missions?
Is it some demented idea that it's supposed to promote PVP?
Is it so that there will be easy targets in the PVP zones?
Is it to make masters rare and hard to get? - And if so, what's the damn justification for not actually making a hard PVE mission?
Is it supposed to be fun?
What the heck are these missions ment to accomplish?
Vicotnik wrote:
The social values gained by team work to defeat players in a PVP zone will not be higher than the social values lost by PVE players getting killed in PVP when they absolutely don't want to.
Naquiel wrote:
Well it all depends one how you implement team work to defeat your simular problems with others in a social gathering of friends. Learn to deal with the problem and try to beat it. But if getting the master box was made really easy, then whats the point of a challanging game.
Vicotnik wrote:
TEAM WORK, SOCIAL VALUES, GAINING FRIENDS.....Will this due.
Nothing of the above justifies these missions. Hell, it doesn't even justify PVP at all. Teamwork, social values and gaining friends is as easy with PVE as with PVP. If not easier.
Well then you loose, if you dont like the way the devs make the game then move onif you and friends cant overcome a simple problem of going into a pvp zone to do one mission to become a master than that is your fault. The devs are making a game that is to be challenging and if you want something in the game bad enough you will have to work at it even if its doing something you dont like. Now if the game was dumbed down so that you can complete everything in the game then the game will be boring.
But there is 2 things i get from this thread.
1. Ppl are to set in there ways and will refuse to see what is in front of them.
2. You have a choice to get the master title or not, you can get alot of ppl together and just get it over with.
And to let you know I really dont pvp ether. I mostly stay covert the whole time im in the game and tend to pvp with guild mates from time to time. I dont take any death i get from the enemy as a grief because i chose to go to a battle ground to fight in a battle.
When i go to get my master title i will perpare my self to fight in an area like if i was going to the corvette or the DWB, i will expect to die a few times and i know im not going to get griefed because i will be in a zone with many ppl fighting. i will expect to fight the enemy just like i do when npc's attack me. I will fight back and help others fighting to finish my goal of getting my master title.
You see im a true gamer. I dont let things like pvp get in my way, i find it a challenge the devs put in front of me to try and complete.
Well im off to have more fun in the game and to make more ships and parts as a master shipwright. good luck and i hope you see that not everything in the game will be easy and some things will be so hard thet you will have to take a chance and just do it.
Eldana wrote:
And no one here can tell me that I as a 4/4/4/4 pilot have a chance against a master
Ya know, I see this over and over and over again. And it's just not true. At tier 4 you have a very, very good chance against a master. Yes, mark 5 equipment is better than mark 4, but it's not that much better. And the best PvP fighters are awarded before master.
Tier 1 vs master? no chance.
Tier 3 vs master? slight chance, if the tier 3 is good.
Tier 4 vs master? nearly equal chance of winning.
Naquiel wrote:
Well then you loose, if you dont like the way the devs make the game then move onif you and friends cant overcome a simple problem of going into a pvp zone to do one mission to become a master than that is your fault.
Lovely. The rather juvenile"It's your fault!"-response. I was waiting for that one. No, it certainly is NOT our fault. It's not our damn fault that the developers have decided to do something that will hurt the game. It is most certainly not our fault that the developers ignored this issue despite countless threads and mentions of this problem in daily issues threads during beta. It's most certainly NOT our fault that not one single person has been able to justify this yet. They all tend to come up with responses like the one above.
The devs are making a game that is to be challenging and if you want something in the game bad enough you will have to work at it even if its doing something you dont like. Now if the game was dumbed down so that you can complete everything in the game then the game will be boring.
I don't find PVP challenging at all. In fact players are often easier than NPCs in JTL. However, this is all beside the point as this will HURT SWG because THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO JUST DON'T LIKE PVP AT ALL. Saying that this is the way the developers made the game challenging is rather silly. It's kinda like saying that: "Well, the developers wanted the game challenging, so they made sure everyone must be master shipwright in JTL". Now this wouldn't work, because it would CHANGE the fundamental idea of SWG. Then again, these missions do the same.
But there is 2 things i get from this thread.
1. Ppl are to set in there ways and will refuse to see what is in front of them.
Yep. On both sides. Except one side tend to bring up no good arguments, and can't justify these missions.
2. You have a choice to get the master title or not, you can get alot of ppl together and just get it over with.
Sorry, wrong. It's not a choice. Not at all. Getting the master title is the core of the pilot professions. If you don't get it, don't expect ever to find any content at all. It's not realistic to say that it is a choice. It's somewhat like if all the dungeons and other content in the ground game would only become avaliable after you had spent all your SP to master a few professions, and after you had done a similar mission set like these master missions. Would you say that it was a choice if that were so?
And to let you know I really dont pvp ether. I mostly stay covert the whole time im in the game and tend to pvp with guild mates from time to time. I dont take any death i get from the enemy as a grief because i chose to go to a battle ground to fight in a battle.
Of course not. You can't take it as grief because you CHOSE to go into battle. In JTL there is no choice.
When i go to get my master title i will perpare my self to fight in an area like if i was going to the corvette or the DWB, i will expect to die a few times and i know im not going to get griefed because i will be in a zone with many ppl fighting. i will expect to fight the enemy just like i do when npc's attack me. I will fight back and help others fighting to finish my goal of getting my master title.
Good luck.
You see im a true gamer. I dont let things like pvp get in my way, i find it a challenge the devs put in front of me to try and complete.
If there only WAS a challenge. All I can see is a poor excuse of a mission development.
Well im off to have more fun in the game and to make more ships and parts as a master shipwright. good luck and i hope you see that not everything in the game will be easy and some things will be so hard thet you will have to take a chance and just do it.
That's not the friggin point. Sheesh.
PVP != hard.
PVP != Challenge.
PVP != fun for people who dislike it.
If JTL is not fun, people will complain. The sad thing here is that most people aren't even aware of these missions yet. Once they reach them you'll see more angry people, trust me.