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Thread: Ok I have been saying this in Beta for the past week so here it goes.....Forced PVP in JTL
Vicotnik wrote:
Pay attention, I will say this again: This has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with people wanting to solo these missions. Period. They are already almost impossible to solo, unless youwould happen to bea uber leet powergamer. Most people WILL need groups for these missions. THIS IS NOT THE POINT OF THIS THREAD HOWEVER. THE POINT IS ABOUT PVP, WHICH IS ALREADY STATED IN THE ABOVE REPLY.
BrotherDavius wrote:
Vicotnik wrote:
It already isn't quite realistic to try and solo these missions, not after the latest upgrades to NPC stats (The developers call it AI, but it completely lacks the I) and the Gunboats. This issue has nothing to do with soloing or grouping for these missions.
If one person can get a group of people together to complete the mission why can everyone else not do that?
My god man i did not mean it that way, get a group to help you against the other players and there is no need to shout if you had read the thread you would have understood what my posy ment.
Y'know what, I'm Gonna be one of those Bastages in Kessel with a B-wing killing all the 4/4/4/4s just because I can, and i am uber, and i will kill you 1000 times before you get a B-wing, HAHAHAHAHA.
/sarcasm off
if it bothers you so much that you gotta defend yourself from players attacking you, just cancel you account, because no one wants to hear your whining...
I can't wait to get tells from those stupid people whining when i blow them outta the sky when they need to kill 2 more TIEs to finish their mission.
AODExarch wrote:
oh and HOW THE HELL DO YOU GRIEF IN SPACE? YOU CANT TRIPLE INCAP, I JUST SHOOT YOU DOWN AND YOU CLONE
I can't wait to get tells from those stupid people whining when i blow them outta the sky when they need to kill 2 more TIEs to finish their mission.
True you can not grief in space it is just win the fight or lose the fight.
AODExarch wrote:
People seem to run away from PVP..... I don't get it. I think its fun shooting at other people's ships
Y'know what, I'm Gonna be one of those Bastages in Kessel with a B-wing killing all the 4/4/4/4s just because I can, and i am uber, and i will kill you 1000 times before you get a B-wing, HAHAHAHAHA.
Oh, it's fun shooting at other peoples ships indeed. But the master missions don't even requires you to shoot other people's ships, they just make you a target for other people to shoot at.
Good luck killing anythingwhile flyinga B-wing. You're going to need it!
AODExarch wrote:
oh and HOW THE HELL DO YOU GRIEF IN SPACE? YOU CANT TRIPLE INCAP, I JUST SHOOT YOU DOWN AND YOU CLONE
I can't wait to get tells from those stupid people whining when i blow them outta the sky when they need to kill 2 more TIEs to finish their mission.
Vicotnik wrote:
AODExarch wrote:
People seem to run away from PVP..... I don't get it. I think its fun shooting at other people's ships
Y'know what, I'm Gonna be one of those Bastages in Kessel with a B-wing killing all the 4/4/4/4s just because I can, and i am uber, and i will kill you 1000 times before you get a B-wing, HAHAHAHAHA.
Oh, it's fun shooting at other peoples ships indeed. But the master missions don't even requires you to shoot other people's ships, they just make you a target for other people to shoot at.
Good luck killing anythingwhile flyinga B-wing. You're going to need it!
True but its not like you have to wait for poeple to shoot you in a pvp zone, so if you and your group sees a person who looks like they might attack you chase them off.
BrotherDavius wrote:
Vicotnik wrote:
Pay attention, I will say this again: This has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with people wanting to solo these missions. Period. They are already almost impossible to solo, unless youwould happen to bea uber leet powergamer. Most people WILL need groups for these missions. THIS IS NOT THE POINT OF THIS THREAD HOWEVER. THE POINT IS ABOUT PVP, WHICH IS ALREADY STATED IN THE ABOVE REPLY.
BrotherDavius wrote:
Vicotnik wrote:
It already isn't quite realistic to try and solo these missions, not after the latest upgrades to NPC stats (The developers call it AI, but it completely lacks the I) and the Gunboats. This issue has nothing to do with soloing or grouping for these missions.
If one person can get a group of people together to complete the mission why can everyone else not do that?
My god man i did not mean it that way, get a group to help you against the other players and there is no need to shout if you had read the thread you would have understood what my posy ment.
Yet again: Pay attention. This is NOT about getting a group to finish the missions. This is not about getting a group to cover your back while you finish your missions.
This is about the fact that these missions are absolutely ruined by PVP. This is about the fact that PVP will be hurt by these missions. This is about the fact that these missions will hurt JTL.
Vicotnik wrote:
BrotherDavius wrote:
Vicotnik wrote:
Pay attention, I will say this again: This has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with people wanting to solo these missions. Period. They are already almost impossible to solo, unless youwould happen to bea uber leet powergamer. Most people WILL need groups for these missions. THIS IS NOT THE POINT OF THIS THREAD HOWEVER. THE POINT IS ABOUT PVP, WHICH IS ALREADY STATED IN THE ABOVE REPLY.
BrotherDavius wrote:
Vicotnik wrote:
It already isn't quite realistic to try and solo these missions, not after the latest upgrades to NPC stats (The developers call it AI, but it completely lacks the I) and the Gunboats. This issue has nothing to do with soloing or grouping for these missions.
If one person can get a group of people together to complete the mission why can everyone else not do that?
My god man i did not mean it that way, get a group to help you against the other players and there is no need to shout if you had read the thread you would have understood what my posy ment.
Yet again: Pay attention. This is NOT about getting a group to finish the missions. This is not about getting a group to cover your back while you finish your missions.
This is about the fact that these missions are absolutely ruined by PVP. This is about the fact that PVP will be hurt by these missions. This is about the fact that these missions will hurt JTL.
That is what i am saying you should at some point need to fly in places where you will need your mates to protect you againts other players. If you had read my past posts you would have known this so you pay attention.
If no one can do it then yes then it needs fixing, but if some it dose not matter who can do it then thats how it should be.
If you have enough mates then this will not be a problem, it is that simple.
Vicotnik wrote:
Most likely, you won't have much chance to see the person(s) charging youamong the many others in the zone before they are over you. The time it takes to fly from max radar range to dogfighting range is minimal, which makes detecting them in time hard at best. This is especially true when you are also concentrating on your mission targets.
BrotherDavius wrote:
True but its not like you have to wait for poeple to shoot you in a pvp zone, so if you and your group sees a person who looks like they might attack you chase them off.
That is what your mates or for.
Felinae wrote:
In order to become a master in any of the pilot professions you must enter the Kessel system, all of the master missions take place there. The problem with this is you have no choice whether or not to PVP in the kessel or deep space system, if you enter those system you are PVP fodder.
Now consider that and think about this.... rebel master mission 1, kill 30 ties.... they are not very fast spawns and hard to get to anyways because of the gunboats all around that can really mess you up, if you hyperspace out to repair, reload you fail the mission, if you die you fail the mission and you have to go get the mission again and then head back to start over.... now add in on all of that you are now a PVP target whether you want to be or not.
I tried this mission a few times then quit beta because of the PVP, I had maybe a few minutes in the zone but every time I was attacked by a PC, my choices where to die (restart mission) hyper out (restart mission) try to kill the guy shooting me...(no I refuse to take part in PVP). In just the past week alone I have counted in about 10 different threads about this issue, and there have been post after post about the possible griefing once this in live, yet all those posts have been ignored, not one dev comment.
Firespray by the way is the AV21 of JTL you have to gather 8 fragments that you can make a schem from that you can make 8 ships from.
Oh and the multiplayer ships are just taxi's, from the drivers seat thats all you can do, if you want your YT to be able to do your solo smuggling, forget it... you cant shoot without leaving the drivers seat and going to a turret.
please add you comments about the forced PVP issue, also those of you that support forced PVP think about this first, what would you do if I took PVP completely away from you? would you like being forced to do nothing but PVE? That is the same way we feel about being forced to take part in PVP.
Message Edited by Felinae on 10-22-2004 09:59 AM
Okay get ready cause I'm not really happy about this post. I really have a problem with people who join an online multi-player game but don't want to play AGAINST other people. Look there are LOTs of space combat sims that don't support PvP and I encourage you to look into them if you really can't hack it in JTL. Bottom line: JTL is the great equalizer that this game needs. I'm tired of 12-year-olds mashing buttons on their TKMs and owning me in PvP. There's no skill in that. JTL will finally pit player against player and only the ones with skills will survive. Yes yes I know what you're saying already: yeah well a tricked-out B-wing will always own my starter TIE in PvP. I agree you'd have a pretty hard time winning that fight no matter how good a pilot you are, but in most cases a good pilot can outfight even a superior ship piloted by a novice.
I've heard the argument that the game needs to be fair for all players and exculding a group of players who don't want toPvP is wrong. Well, I disagree. I think the required PvP is just realistic and it adds a LOT to the overall feel of space combat. Yes let's be honest, none of us like to die or be beaten but it's going to happen. Some people will never be good at JTL and I can understand their frustration, but at the same time this JTL model is the game I've been waiting for since 1995. FINALLY a game that completely immerses me in the star wars universe, both in space and on the ground. It's not perfect... no game is, but it's goes lightyears beyond any other Star Wars game in what it does.
[FLAMEON] So to all you players who love to complain, and who seek "balance and fairness" I'd like to say this: People who complained that getting to jedi was too hard and it needed to be "fair", or the ones who moaned about bounty hunters being too powerful have ruined a large part of this game. Well now we have the new jedi system and bounty hunters were nerfed to death (but are now being fixed).They claim to be looking for fairness but all they really want is to be is "uber" and couldn't care less about how it affects the experience forthe rest of us.Those button-mashers who grind out experience just to geta jedi sothey can stand in Coronet and show offtheir lightsaber are the problem with SWG.They don't want to play,they just want to win.
So guess what, JTL is not "fair". It's not "balanced". It's not "X-wing" or "Jedi Starfighter" or "Wing Commander" or "Battlefront". It's not a PvE environment. PvP is what JTL was built for. Player vs. player in space combat. We're tired of firing on wave after wave of mindless AI TIEs. So if you really have a problem with that, then JTL is not for you. But if you paid any attention to the development notes and the TONS of user discussions online, you would already know this. And I just have to comment on this last piece.
> please add you comments about the forced PVP issue, also those of you that support forced PVP think about this first, what would you do if I took PVP completely away from you? would you like being forced to do nothing but PVE? That is the same way we feel about being forced to take part in PVP.
Okay, first of all, you're not being forced. Don't want PvP? Stay out of Kessel. You won't get master pilot, but you won't HAVE to PvP. Secondly, if you took PvP out of the ground game I think people would miss it, but the ground is really geared for PvE to beging with. JTL is allabout eventual PvP. That's really a silly comparison anyway since taking PvP out of the ground game removes a feature thatsome players might enjoy. Keeping PvP in JTL just gives players more options, so how can you even suggest the two scenarios are equal?
Let me finish by saying, I'm not happy about EVERY little thing in SWG, but I play it anyway because I believe in the concept of the game. Some of the people who comment on these boards feel that they deserve a game that adapts to their personal wants. Well, in a multi-player environment its never going to happen. There will always be conflict of opinions and the Devs do a pretty good job of taking all the sides into account while at the same time trying to keep the original spirit of the game intact. But its just foolish to suggest the DEVs remove an element of the game that other players HAVE BEGGED FOR just becuase you don't want to participate. [FLAMEOFF]
fav wrote:
Felinae wrote:
In order to become a master in any of the pilot professions you must enter the Kessel system, all of the master missions take place there. The problem with this is you have no choice whether or not to PVP in the kessel or deep space system, if you enter those system you are PVP fodder.
Now consider that and think about this.... rebel master mission 1, kill 30 ties.... they are not very fast spawns and hard to get to anyways because of the gunboats all around that can really mess you up, if you hyperspace out to repair, reload you fail the mission, if you die you fail the mission and you have to go get the mission again and then head back to start over.... now add in on all of that you are now a PVP target whether you want to be or not.
I tried this mission a few times then quit beta because of the PVP, I had maybe a few minutes in the zone but every time I was attacked by a PC, my choices where to die (restart mission) hyper out (restart mission) try to kill the guy shooting me...(no I refuse to take part in PVP). In just the past week alone I have counted in about 10 different threads about this issue, and there have been post after post about the possible griefing once this in live, yet all those posts have been ignored, not one dev comment.
Firespray by the way is the AV21 of JTL you have to gather 8 fragments that you can make a schem from that you can make 8 ships from.
Oh and the multiplayer ships are just taxi's, from the drivers seat thats all you can do, if you want your YT to be able to do your solo smuggling, forget it... you cant shoot without leaving the drivers seat and going to a turret.
please add you comments about the forced PVP issue, also those of you that support forced PVP think about this first, what would you do if I took PVP completely away from you? would you like being forced to do nothing but PVE? That is the same way we feel about being forced to take part in PVP.
Message Edited by Felinae on 10-22-2004 09:59 AM
Okay get ready cause I'm not really happy about this post. I really have a problem with people who join an online multi-player game but don't want to play AGAINST other people. Look there are LOTs of space combat sims that don't support PvP and I encourage you to look into them if you really can't hack it in JTL. Bottom line: JTL is the great equalizer that this game needs. I'm tired of 12-year-olds mashing buttons on their TKMs and owning me in PvP. There's no skill in that. JTL will finally pit player against player and only the ones with skills will survive. Yes yes I know what you're saying already: yeah well a tricked-out B-wing will always own my starter TIE in PvP. I agree you'd have a pretty hard time winning that fight no matter how good a pilot you are, but in most cases a good pilot can outfight even a superior ship piloted by a novice.
I've heard the argument that the game needs to be fair for all players and exculding a group of players who don't want toPvP is wrong. Well, I disagree. I think the required PvP is just realistic and it adds a LOT to the overall feel of space combat. Yes let's be honest, none of us like to die or be beaten but it's going to happen. Some people will never be good at JTL and I can understand their frustration, but at the same time this JTL model is the game I've been waiting for since 1995. FINALLY a game that completely immerses me in the star wars universe, both in space and on the ground. It's not perfect... no game is, but it's goes lightyears beyond any other Star Wars game in what it does.
[FLAMEON] So to all you players who love to complain, and who seek "balance and fairness" I'd like to say this: People who complained that getting to jedi was too hard and it needed to be "fair", or the ones who moaned about bounty hunters being too powerful have ruined a large part of this game. Well now we have the new jedi system and bounty hunters were nerfed to death (but are now being fixed).They claim to be looking for fairness but all they really want is to be is "uber" and couldn't care less about how it affects the experience forthe rest of us.Those button-mashers who grind out experience just to geta jedi sothey can stand in Coronet and show offtheir lightsaber are the problem with SWG.They don't want to play,they just want to win.
So guess what, JTL is not "fair". It's not "balanced". It's not "X-wing" or "Jedi Starfighter" or "Wing Commander" or "Battlefront". It's not a PvE environment. PvP is what JTL was built for. Player vs. player in space combat. We're tired of firing on wave after wave of mindless AI TIEs. So if you really have a problem with that, then JTL is not for you. But if you paid any attention to the development notes and the TONS of user discussions online, you would already know this. And I just have to comment on this last piece.
> please add you comments about the forced PVP issue, also those of you that support forced PVP think about this first, what would you do if I took PVP completely away from you? would you like being forced to do nothing but PVE? That is the same way we feel about being forced to take part in PVP.
Okay, first of all, you're not being forced. Don't want PvP? Stay out of Kessel. You won't get master pilot, but you won't HAVE to PvP. Secondly, if you took PvP out of the ground game I think people would miss it, but the ground is really geared for PvE to beging with. JTL is allabout eventual PvP. That's really a silly comparison anyway since taking PvP out of the ground game removes a feature thatsome players might enjoy. Keeping PvP in JTL just gives players more options, so how can you even suggest the two scenarios are equal?
Let me finish by saying, I'm not happy about EVERY little thing in SWG, but I play it anyway because I believe in the concept of the game. Some of the people who comment on these boards feel that they deserve a game that adapts to their personal wants. Well, in a multi-player environment its never going to happen. There will always be conflict of opinions and the Devs do a pretty good job of taking all the sides into account while at the same time trying to keep the original spirit of the game intact. But its just foolish to suggest the DEVs remove an element of the game that other players HAVE BEGGED FOR just becuase you don't want to participate. [FLAMEOFF]
/agree.