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Thread: Space PvP needs more help

LRRCP
Wed Dec 29, 2004 10:24 pm
#79






Slarus wrote:

I made my point LRRCP, you can have your fantasies about what an MMORPG is. The term was coined by games made in 96 and 97, Air Warrior was a flight sim with multiplayer capability, it really doesnt matter if it came out in 1802 or 1992 or whatever, it was not called an MMORPG, it isnt, an RPG it is a flight sim. Dont bother saying anything more about this, if you want the final word be my guest, anyone can look it up. A cell phone is a marketing term but that doesnt mean a cordless phone that uses a ground line in a home is a cell phone, but go right ahead and act like a fool tring to prove a flight sim is an MMO.


As for the differences between a live player and an NPC, you know what, who cares again I guess a Player TIE is a TIEPC and an NPC TIE is a TIENPC, I never see either when I target someone or something I see a TIE.


You want to player developer as well, ok fine you think it is easy to code a badge for you ego that records each individual kill for each PvP player on each server and this will cause no problem and be seemless, then by all means write it up and send it in to SOE, and while your at it, tell em how to make the game less laggy, I mean if you can solve you ego stroking badge issue a brillant multi-talented jer..person like yourself should have no problem out doing the devs at SOE, in fact just write your own Star Wars MMO, the way only you could make it work, get Lucas to give you production rights and make us all happy so we may thank you.


I am sure on some planet your ramblings are impressive and would work, but you major problem is this is planet Earth.







Salars I have better thing to do then argue with fools like you in the forums, you do not seem to understand and refuse to see another point of view, you are closed minded..


They could have done a lot with JTL but they did not, missions that cap off at master become boring and most players only use it now for free transport and loot money.


I want group interaction in PVP combat in space, like many of the flight sims do have and is intresting enough to keep people hooked on it for years.


JTL keep people for weeks before A) they get bored with it, orB) they master it.


And your lag issue will be fixed on its own as more people drop this game for better ones on the market, if the CU is a floop then look for server mergers soon after.

LRRCP
Wed Dec 29, 2004 10:45 pm
#80






Slarus wrote:

Aces need a kill board. That includes both PvEers and PvPers. Somewhere in their, that fact seemed to become blurred. For PvEers kill counts are a motivater. Call it a reward , call it a trophy, all the same it is a motivater. It would not be exclusive to people who PvP, it is available to all players. Wheww now let move on!


Not sure what you mean by Aces, but the rest is spot on grats.







Ace is the moniker given to both imperial and rebel master pilots.


A kill board that list the top 300 players in their field, PVE and PVP would be good, those not on the board have something to shoot for.


Problem though with kill boards the players who tend to do nothing but play the game tend to be the top rankers, and they would need to be reset in a decent interval.


though a Faction kill board posted in all the bases would also be nice also, listing number of Imperials and Rebels both player and NPC's shot downthe day before would be interesting stats.


CyberData4
Wed Dec 29, 2004 10:47 pm
#81

Most PvPers left a long, long time ago. I know many don't want to hear this but SWG and JTL are linked, theya re one in the same. And if a player is having a huge distaste for one, they aren't going to want to play it.


If JtL was more than a "shooter" I think there would bu much more space activity period. It's a shame that so much effort went into such a shallow product. I mean, the ship customization is phenominal, but that's about it.Think about it:


-Small Space Sectors: At master level I can travel from on end of a star system to another in moments. All these sections should be at least four times as large. Space is suppose to be vast. Being close enough to a ship to see it should have alarms going off left and right.


-Only Space in Space: I see starbases, orbital facilities, star destroyers, corvettes.....etc. And the play can't even walk around in those places. Such a thing would have people loving the fact that they can go into space and land somewhere and do business, fight, purchase things...you name it. It might seem trivial, but it makes space that much more deep than just a shooter


-No non-combat space activities: Where is the space mining, starbase owning, and space bounty hunting? We see players on the ground all the time, but how many of them are engaged in combat at any given moment? Not many. If players are to go into space, they need a reason besides combat. Do that and those same people will be more than willing to PvP when the occasion arrises.


-Too much of a pain in the arse to declare or travel to a starbase to enter deep space. Seriously, players are lazy. It's a game. Why can't I hyperspace directly to deep space or kessel? Why do I need a starbase to get me there?


In the end, I think the one thing responsible for this mess of lack of PvP is lack of overall population across all servers. I mean, it's no ghosttown, but MANY hardcore PvPers left for better games already.
LRRCP
Wed Dec 29, 2004 11:40 pm
#82






CyberData4 wrote:

Most PvPers left a long, long time ago. I know many don't want to hear this but SWG and JTL are linked, theya re one in the same. And if a player is having a huge distaste for one, they aren't going to want to play it.


If JtL was more than a "shooter" I think there would bu much more space activity period. It's a shame that so much effort went into such a shallow product. I mean, the ship customization is phenominal, but that's about it.Think about it:


-Small Space Sectors: At master level I can travel from on end of a star system to another in moments. All these sections should be at least four times as large. Space is suppose to be vast. Being close enough to a ship to see it should have alarms going off left and right.


-Only Space in Space: I see starbases, orbital facilities, star destroyers, corvettes.....etc. And the play can't even walk around in those places. Such a thing would have people loving the fact that they can go into space and land somewhere and do business, fight, purchase things...you name it. It might seem trivial, but it makes space that much more deep than just a shooter


-No non-combat space activities: Where is the space mining, starbase owning, and space bounty hunting? We see players on the ground all the time, but how many of them are engaged in combat at any given moment? Not many. If players are to go into space, they need a reason besides combat. Do that and those same people will be more than willing to PvP when the occasion arrises.


-Too much of a pain in the arse to declare or travel to a starbase to enter deep space. Seriously, players are lazy. It's a game. Why can't I hyperspace directly to deep space or kessel? Why do I need a starbase to get me there?


In the end, I think the one thing responsible for this mess of lack of PvP is lack of overall population across all servers. I mean, it's no ghosttown, but MANY hardcore PvPers left for better games already.





Many PvP players are grinding jedi at the moment, most other games of this venue do not have PvP built in yet.


Many still have active accounts and check back in every once in a while or are waiting on the combat revamp to decide if they will cancel or not.


TotalJerk
Thu Dec 30, 2004 12:14 am
#83


I'd say well over half the PVP guilds on my server have moved on to other games. I attribute most of this to balance issues after talking with their leaders.
Amuro0079
Thu Dec 30, 2004 12:16 am
#84











LRRCP wrote:



Amuro0079 because it applies as much to them as any other game and giving me a link to some place called PJ-Gaming does not make your case.

MMOG=Massive (no limit given by the industry) Mulitplayer (more then one), On-line (of course on-line) Game...

You keep stating that there is some minimum limit for a game to be called MMO yet the industry has no standard on what a MMOG really is.. even the link I gave you from game spy said more then 16 could be called a MMO.

The term MMOG and MMORPG are not standardized and can be applied to any on-line game as they are nothing more them marketing terms.

One thing your definitions tend to neglect is Pay to Play




Then why don't we just go ahead call every single game that has multiplayer support MMO since you believe MMO and multiplayer are pretty much interchangeable? (MMOis three letter word, so actually save me some typing). BTW, when did I even give you acomplete definition of MMO?MMO games have to be run on proprietary servers too, if you must know. There are lots of sitestalking aboutMMO, if you don't like the one I gave you, go search google yourself. And the Gamespy article never ever said that more than 16 players could be called MMO, it just quoted some unknownguy as saying 16player was MMO backthen (probably referring to the80s or earlly 90s), so it was just that guy'sown opinion, like 100+ playerswas yours. Marketing terms? No, I wouldsay it started out as agaming concept, notsome meaningless buzzword. And while there's no limit given to the the world Massive or Massively, there's currently a debate going on as to whether massive shouldrefer toactual headcountsor thenumber of supported players.

Message Edited by Amuro0079 on 12-30-2004 04:03 PM



Giovane - Imperial Pilot Ace | Jedi Master
Guo - Freelance Master Pilot | Master Medic
Rong - Alliance Ace Pilot | Master Trader (Shipwright/Architect)


Drop-off vendors: 3895 -6157, roughly 1250m from Mos Eisley starport


((((Official Thread about Jedi Innate Armor))))
TotalJerk
Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:47 am
#85

Yeah i totally agree. When we all first started out, in a time before armor and buffs, it was like that. Good combat, long battles, lasers flying everywhere. Then came the combat medic, then came the defense stacker, then came the jedi horde. Right now you need to have a template to compete. Thats just wrong.
S-1-l2-H-C
Thu Dec 30, 2004 7:12 am
#86

get overload commands and a good re'd lvl7-8 gun for your awing. also you will need a pre-nerf reward engine, a lvl7 crafted shield, and lvl1-2 for the rest of the gear.

once you start using overloads and nice parts there will be a point where your awing will start outdamaging larger ships with alot more firepower just because of your hit percentage. combine that with the small profile and you have a ship that can solo anything, and i do mean anything; from an ISD to a group of 20 tier5 ties, nothing can touch my awing.



____________________________
Starsider:
Harotak, Imperial Ace, pilot of the RGI "No Quarter" and the "ISS Enforcer"
Katorah, Corsec Security forces, Captian of "The Unrelenting
Harotak', Rebel Terrorist
Coran_Sienar
Thu Dec 30, 2004 7:42 am
#87






TotalJerk wrote:


I'd say well over half the PVP guilds on my server have moved on to other games. I attribute most of this to balance issues after talking with their leaders.






Not just PvP players. My guild lost a lot of active members to WoW and EQ2. On any given night, it wasn't unusual to see 15-20 guild members on guildchat. Now, we're lucky to have 6. Not a flame. Just stating the facts.



Modus Sienar
Master Shipwright
Master Smuggler (Hope > Logic)
Aced all 9 Squadrons
Slarus
Thu Dec 30, 2004 9:41 am
#88


Salars I have better thing to do then argue with fools like you in the forums, you do not seem to understand and refuse to see another point of view, you are closed minded..


They could have done a lot with JTL but they did not, missions that cap off at master become boring and most players only use it now for free transport and loot money.


I want group interaction in PVP combat in space, like many of the flight sims do have and is intresting enough to keep people hooked on it for years.


JTL keep people for weeks before A) they get bored with it, orB) they master it.


And your lag issue will be fixed on its own as more people drop this game for better ones on the market, if the CU is a floop then look for server mergers soon after.



Well takes a fool to spot a damned fool, but I do agree they could have done more with JTL, but the vast majority of players didnt master piloting in the first 3 weeks. If you spend a year developing content and a few players finish it in weeks what can you do?


If you mastered in the first month you will NEVER be satisfied, the devs will never give you enough content on that I am 100% sure of. Even with PvP missions I would bet my paycheck folks like you and others will be right back here in a few weeks after it is implemented complaining about lack of content.


When your only expectation is flying and fighting, why would you want more? SWG is an RPG but people get obsessed with "mastering" getting the good loots, the badges and etc. With more to do, people will find more to complain about. In reality the flight sim may have been around for years but the majority of players come and go just like an MMO, only the hardcores stay for long periods and it doesnt mean they arent shopping for the next great thing so your trying to mislead us into thinking Flight sims are superior in player retension and that is not true. I played Air Warrior till I got bored and moved on as did many more people then those that stayed.

Slarus
Thu Dec 30, 2004 9:47 am
#89


Ace is the moniker given to both imperial and rebel master pilots.


A kill board that list the top 300 players in their field, PVE and PVP would be good, those not on the board have something to shoot for.


Problem though with kill boards the players who tend to do nothing but play the game tend to be the top rankers, and they would need to be reset in a decent interval.


though a Faction kill board posted in all the bases would also be nice also, listing number of Imperials and Rebels both player and NPC's shot downthe day before would be interesting stats.


Very true but this is no different then what would happen with and badge or reward, the consistant players would get ALL rewards first, then complain and diminish the value of the reward or work to prevent anyone else from getting it, plus it is easiest for these players to find short cuts and exploits for any content. No system is perfect I just think a kill counter/leaderboard is the safest route to go. TotalJerk sees no problem with badges, but I do. TotalJerk and I agree on Kill counter/leaderboard so right there which sounds better to do? The only complaint about the counter/leaderboard is some hardcores dont think it is enough but they tend to like it, so my though is, It's a start, try it then talk about adding. It seems alot of folks want a whole new expansion to fix a problem, rather then baby steps to the solution. Call it closed minded if you will but I believe in small changes towards greatness rather then huge monster like steps that are doomed to fail.

CyberData4
Thu Dec 30, 2004 11:30 am
#90

Leaderboards/ Kill Count listings are completely pointless. I spent 3 months from novice pilot to master pilot. Only took that long because I was unable to find a squad to take out the corvette.


What JtL needs is two things, in my opinion:


1- Renewable content:(It has some, but is very limited) This is content that has a purpose yet can be done over and over again.


2- Content outside of combat: Space Stations, Smuggling, Bounty Hunting (npc's, not Jedi), Mining, Space Stations and other facilities that the players can walk around in or get mission to dock in.


However, I fully agree that right now, things like this aren't going to happen. The devs are full with the CU and that's just the way it is. I'm glad they got combat in space reasonably correct, this way when it's time for JtL content, it doesn't come at the expense of leaving the combat system in shambles (cough, ground game, cough)
Blackjack_Nova
Thu Dec 30, 2004 12:28 pm
#91


Cyber - Every professional sports team maintains stats. A kill board is no diffirent. When they are done right, they are one of the best motivators invented.


A good stats system will track continous totals and track totals for a certain period of time. The section of time is called a Season. The NFL, NBA, NHL and hundreds
of other athletic leagues all have seasons and track stats.

Twitch games use stats like "frag counts" , base kills , assisted kills and a whole host of other stats. Jumpgateand PlanetSidewhich are bothMMORPH have websites that

track all kinds of stats, kill counts being only on of them. SWG combines RPG as well as Twitched based combat, it really is cutting edge in that these two play styles are combined within the same game.

Not having Stats for space is a MAJOR mistake because they do and would keep people around for a very long time and would allow for PA's to form that would
be focused on getting good stats for the "season". There is a great oppertunity here I hope that it is not missed...




Blackjack Nova

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