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garvin wrote:

Ok...here is what I've gathered so far (lots and lots of back reading) and I can't confirm any of it for sure because of it being the Weekend...

TH's post about the "Friday Feature" meant NEXT friday and not this one, although I too thought he meant this past Friday...

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garvin wrote:

And remember...This upcoming Thursday I will be Face 2 Face with TH and the rest of the SOE staff getting the real scoops at the Correspondent Summit in Austin...

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Couple of things...

Punch them in the throat

Kick them in the nuts

As they are doubled over,take all 9 of my swg disks and shove them up their collective asses...Sideways...After making the edges jagged

I apologize, Garvin, for my hostility, however the constant lying HAS to end somewhere...

TH on vacation? Maybe he got fired and this is the story thats getting out...

bring your flamethrower with you...say "Im gonna use it if Im not hearing something I like"

The "Bait and Switch" didn't work.

For it to work.... Promise one thing... like the combat revamp,

then switch it to JtL coming out and having more priority...

And people go... AWWW SHINY!

Alas guess people around here are a bit smarter than the average Ewok.

Its horrible that they drop real crap on us on Friday. Everything should happen Monday, or at least Wednesday or Thursday. Friday's are nice, but like the Merchant "REVAMP" you get people freaking out over the weekend, and I am PO'ed because I went to bed early Friday because I had work really early today Saturday and knowing you guys tend to post crap as late as possible and at PST gets annoying living on the East Coast. It would be nice to get feedback for a couple of hours after you post stuff, and not you guys leave the office for the weekend.

I expected a writeup about the professions Friday, even a one word writeup would be great, and then maybe expand it to a paragraph, and give a date saying "One Month from now" and keep to it.

And "Next Friday" means The very next friday that occurs in the calender not the friday after next.

I really hope TH has some type of emergency or is at least working hard to deliver something extraordinary, because this gets boring fast. And what stops them from doing a double FF?

I'll have to post in red since my post was replied to in such a methodical way.

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Brilyn wrote:

< What has been done to the player base is unethical. >

Step back and look at it dispassionately. It's only unethical if it was *planned* this way.

All big business works the same. The Marketing department decrees that such and such a thing will be ready by next Tuesday, without actually talking to the people who do the work, who *actually* know that such a statement is true *only* if "next Tuesday" is a euphimism for "sometime next year".

It had to become obvious to TH that the devs had not done a single thing to get the Sandbox started. When the devs start talk in October about the CB/Sandbox, TH says only a few months more in December, and in June nothing has been done on either front and still the CB is spouted I fail to see how it has not been planned to keep misleading the community. TH is not blind. Either he saw nothing being done and said oh well, or he was so out of the loop that he never saw the work had not started. I do not believe he was out of the loop that much.

< Is it so much to ask that we as a community not be lied to and treated like children?>

First off: it's only a lie if they planned it that way.

Secondly (and this isn't aimed at you): I'm sure they wouldn't treat us like children if the vocal minority didn't *act* like children. Read the CH forum. Read the Merchant Forum. Read the responses to *any* positive statement that TH makes.

SOE are dealing with the community on the community's terms: as children.

First off: see above. :}

Secondly: I see what you are saying, but when they treat the minority of the vocal minority that can post logically, passionately, and without flames as children also there is something wrong. When bombshells hit, there is a kneejerk reaction no doubt about it. But this reaction happens on the forums, and would happen in the game itself if no reaction happens on the forums. Most times when TH posts something positive, there is always wiggle room for the devs to say oh we really didn't mean that at all, and those that question that wiggle room are shouted down as childish. As you said in your previous post about holding views different from your peers, that is what happens to those that question things TH says.

< backstabbing the community >

C'mon. Seriously.

You'd swear he killed your dog or something.....

Well they did kill my childhood..... With things that TH does, I fail to find another term that expresses my thoughts that backstabbing does. I see many underhanded things they have done, and most of the community is so happy the nerf bat looks to be held back they don't see it. See below :}

< it makes NO sense as to why he would take a break. >

I dunno. Has he suffered a heart attack? Medical emergeancy? Family issues? Parents died?

I mean, c'mon. There's a *hell* of a lot of reasons as to why it *does* make sense as to why he'd take a break.

And, frankly, most of them are none of our business.

If it's just a holiday, well..... so what? It's his job. Much like you and your job, he's entitled to take holidays.

I know when I took holidays in work, I sure as hell didn't contact all the people on the other end to let them know whyI'd be away, as it was none of their business.

There are reasons, but why would he or any other dev notalert us to his absence. I don't want to know the details, it'd just be nice to know that the silence we usually get has a reason this time. I know he is entitled to take a break, but the timing of the break is odd. If I was in my job, had a huge deadline due, and took off a few days which would likely make me miss the deadline that is a problem. A simple message something like"due to unavoidable circumstances, I will be out of the office until Monday" would have done the trick. Adding in something about the promised Friday Feature being delayed should also have been mentioned. He works for us. He works with us. You probably weren't responsible (assuming here, forgive me if you were) to as many people as TH is, nor would it be as easy to contact them as it would be for him. I don't care the WHY he is gone, I care that he didn't let us know at all.

< First the CH by misleading you after you were nerfed, telling you that CHs would only be under powered for a few months until the end of the CB.>

It's quite possibly that the original intent of the reduction was for it to be temporary. But the business plan changed, and SOE chose not to direct resources to pump the CH back up.

Yes, that's crap. I'm not going to debate that.

But that does NOT mean TH lied.

If the original intent was for it to be temporary, there had to be dev milestones missed to indicate this would not be temporary. The lack of CB/Sandbox for instance, but that does not remove the responsibility for addressing his previous comments. If it was true at the time and circumstances dictated it would be otherwise, then one would assume that the situation should be updated.

< he never addressed the bombshell of patch notes that included a stealth nerf to the entire base of players that sold things in the game >

Ok, this is a merchant issue. I've spoken about this with the kiddies on the Merchant forum at length.

I'm only gonna make a single point regarding this here, as it's off-topic for this forum:

This was going onto Test Center. To be Tested. Don't lose focus. Test Center, not Live. It's not a Nerf til it hits Live. SOE are entitled to do *whatever* the heck they like on TC. That the whole point of TC's existance.

I understand the point of the TC. The point of TC is for those on Live to find out about changes before it hits Live. They planned the changes on TC to go Live. Those that the changes would affect did not like them. They voiced their displeasure. What is wrong with this?

< Somebody deleted the patch notes >

People said that. I logged into TC (for the very first time, I must say), and saw the Patch Notes immediately. This is (yet again) an example of Chiken Little syndrome. People repeat things that they've heard that the haven't verified for themselves, and the panic spreads. (not aiming this at you, just stating generally)

Then you did not see that Rogue_5 had posted them on the forums here, and then minutes later the post was deleted.

< I believe that they must be held responsible for their words, actions, and lack thereof.>

Posting complaints on a public forum is not holding them responsible. It's simply posting on a public forum, that gets ignored in the general morass of posts on these forums.

True, but where else are we supposed to post complaints? Last time the players took their complaints to the "outside world" Haden showed up, shoved a load of PR spin, lied about previous dev statements, called the players participating on the forum a bunch of whiners, and then weeks later posted an "apology" that addressed none of the concerns the players had about his statements. TH would not address his statements either, the only thing we got out of him ona Sunday was he had talked to Haden a few times and thoughthe had already posted to us. What other recourse is there for those that like the game, don't want to or can't quit, but want to make it better? Should we all just shut up and not voice our displeasure because it might be ignored? I'm sure TH would love that since his job would be infinately easier, but it would not make the game one bit better. Pointed questions and sharp barbs are sometimes the only thing available to the frustrated player.

< When a dev promises something on a certain day to a certain group of people and does not produce, let alone make a comment why it makes a person wonder why that dev has a job after this is an established andrepeated pattern. >

The simple answer is: because it's not necessarily their fault or their decision for it to be pushed back.

After this happens time and time again, there must be accountability. If not the person responsible, then his boss. If not him, then maybe his boss. TH has a record of these things. Do you remember the BE Friday Feature he promised a dev was working on for weeks? How about when it was finally released, and it was merely a copy/paste of the BE FAQ, the exact same typos included.

< When instead his job has become misleading the players and running interferance for developer decisions coming out of thin air, he has stopped being our representitive. >

Really? Unless you're far far better connected than I believe, I don't think you know what he's saying to the Devs? Do you?

Here'ssome simple rules for being the poor git stuck between the rock and the hard place:

Always do what your told by your superiors. Always exaggerate the problem to the people who have to deal with it. Always exaggerate the complaints coming back the other way. Pray to whatever deity you hold dear that your exaggerations will lead to most people getting what they want.

TH is pretty much following these to the letter.

When talking to us, he claims the problem is huge. Tells us that Merchants getting limits, and they're tiny. Behind the scenes, he pushes for more. Claims the outcry is 10x what it actually is. Limits get pushed in the direction of something reasonable. Most Merchants satisfied. SOE satisfied that limits were instituted. TH goes for anti-stress counseling....

I'm not saying that it played out that way. I'm simply suggesting a reasonable possiblity.

I'm not more connected, not saying I am. I do know that the outcry from the community never seems to get to the devs in a timely fashion. Either TH is inept at providing information to the devs, or they never ever ever act upon information given to them. I'm sorry, but the various professions can only be asked for top 5's that never change so many times, because the bugs from the previous top 5's have never been addressed. Remember what happened with housing? We had 250 items in the most basic of houses, which was then nerfed to 25 items per lot. And graciously it was upped to 75 items. If they came to us with 75 originally, they would've had to give us more than that. 75 is what they wanted, so they lowballed us. If you think TH and crew wasn't following this script.......

It is a reasonable possibility, but previous actions show us that it is NOT a likely possibility.

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Message Edited by BaalZamon on 08-21-2004 07:07 PM

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RankorCity wrote:

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garvin wrote:

Ok...here is what I've gathered so far (lots and lots of back reading) and I can't confirm any of it for sure because of it being the Weekend...

TH's post about the "Friday Feature" meant NEXT friday and not this one, although I too thought he meant this past Friday...

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Garvin,

I dont buy it.

Call me a pessimist (with regards to this game, anyway), but the fact that TH(and others)has BLATANTLY lied to us (and everyone else) over and over, makes it difficult for me to believe anything they say.

EVER.

It would have been naive of me to think that the FF was to be specifically about Commandos, as there are a few profs that are just as broken (or more) than Commando is. Sooner or later, they have to be shown some love as well.

When the next Friday Feature rolls around, if it at least doesnt make my eye twinkle, or if its the least little bit vague in its target date, My alt will no longer be a Master Commando...Screw it...I have played a Commando for about 11 months, of 13 months playing this game. Have always been a Master, and never a dabbler. I have partnered it withrifles, pistols, carbines, tkm, and fencer.I know the prof inside and out. But I cannot justify the skill point sink into a prof that simply is not competitive in either pve or pvp...

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Kalano wrote:

If you reread TH post, he said he is trying to get it done maybe next friday. He never said that it will be next friday. He didn't lie at all. He was trying to get something out that probably got axed before he could. Probably waiting for the conferance to finish before making a final draft for us, maybe not at all. but before calling them liers, first reread the post and see if he stated he will or say he will try too.

take a chill pill, they didn't lie, they were just optimistic.

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Taken from Thunderheart's post verbatim:

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*comandeers the sockpuppet*