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I can definetely say at tier 4 RSF privateer, the ships are just too fast, and turn too quickly....

I initally started last week with my kimo.. ok, thing handles like a brick, but hey, went thru all of tier 3 with it, can't be too bad? Ended up playing spin and shoot. ok, have a slow engine and such, can understand that.

I wait for yesterday's patch, make an Ixgen, drop my 92 speed engine in it, and fill in the rest of the slots around that.

Didn't do too bad, but still having to spin and shoot got very annoying.

Typical 4-ship wave, on the Endor destroy duty mission.... first, take out the 2 bombers. They're easy enough, no issues there. Target the first fighter, it's a nice challenge to keep up with, but it can be done.. mis-throttle one turn, and it's away from you, but you CAN catch up with it. Then the last fighter.... cut to half throttle, spin and shoot. I can turn fast enough to watch it turn around (about 700m away)... I've seen missiles with bigger turn radiuses! That last ship needs to be brought down to where the 3rd ship is, at least. somehow, it gets some super-bonus. I'm a fairly decent pilot (I'll say good if I win alot in PvP) and for some people, that last ship will just be impossible as it stands now.

Message Edited by Trystim on 11-17-2004 10:46 AM

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Trystim wrote:

Well, I just signed on to test out these new A.I. changes that for some reason

the devs feel was necessary. Two skills away from Master Pilot and nearly

a year of being a faithful player

Here's what I think .....

*Uninstalls game* - Good Riddance!

Note: Maybe next time you will develop a game design that

caters to all of your playerbase types, not just the FPS shooter

gods who say it's too easy. I'd like to say it's been fun. But

when I look back, I don't think I'veever been more frustrated,

disappointed, or upset with a game. All of that just to fly an

iconic multiplayer ship. Seems like a big waste of time and

money...well, not anymore.....

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If you don't want to play in a system that caters to the skilled in FPS/flight-sim games, may I humbly suggest that JtL was never for you? It's not a question of easy/hard. You're complaining about a core aspect of the game mechanics for JtL; the flight-sim AI. Personally, I want the AI to be as close to a human as possible. I want it to be tough to beat. I wish the AI was better and their ships not so bloody tough. If I had a ship with that much armor and shielding, I'd be able to solo the Death Star.

Seriously, though- if you're having problems with the AI getting better or harder to beat, then you shouldn't have played JtL in the first place.

Well, I wouldn't call names, but your speed estimates in the Awing are incorrect.

I HAVE that engine in my Awing (the reward for the tier III missions I believe), and the "cruise" speed (max throttle) is 921. With full booster (I have a max speed 35 booster) I can get to 1204.

I see no way that you can get 1200+ cruise and 1500+ with booster unless I'm bugged...

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swgdevmbogue wrote:

We are aware of all the concerns and opinions about the AI.

Oh no! This change was intended and isnot a bug. I was sure I wouldwake up today and see a reply from the dev team that this was a bug and a hot fix was in the works. *sighs*

We are constantly adjusting the AI to make it challenging and fun.

Then this change is a complete failure if those werethe goals.

Is the new AI more challenging? No, it is not. "Longer" does not equate to "challenging." It makes space combat completely one dimensional. All the enemy npc ships use the same exact tactic over and over, whatever you want to call it... jousting, playing chicken, hit and run, straffing,etc. It took me 5 minutes to adjust to this new tactic so now I only use one tactic, which is blast away at them head on, turn, blast at their rear, wait..... wait.... wait.... wait... repeat. In fact, if it was technically possible to macro the moves required to battle in this new system, I could afk macro all my space combat until master. Did I take more damage to my ship or die more often after the patch? No. Does this new system reward pilot skill and quick thinking? No. Does this new system require the player to learn and usenew tactics as he progresses in skill level? No, once you learn how to compete against this single tactic, all that is required is to upgrade your components. Is it more realistic? No, if you have many ships attacking one or a fewtargets, why on earth would they all continue to straffe and run awayout of range? The new system makes it so battles against multiple ships are watered down into a series of one on ones.

If the new AI more fun? No, it is not. It is repetitive, mind numbingly dull and frustrating. And most of all, it doesn't feel like Star Wars anymore. The "beehive"effect did feel like Star Wars... it made me feel like I was Luke sitting in the gunner turret of the Millenium Falcon in Episode 1, with Tie Fighters buzzing all around and more targets in range thanI could shakea light saber at... getting pounded from all sidesand hearing in my head "stay on target" as I tried to pick off one enemy at a time.

Do you realize what this "super speed" does? It takes any percieved "realism" out of the game. By that, I mean that we obviously know that they are AI controlled, npc enemiesand now they are classed so far beyond the limitations of player ships that when we destroy them, it was not because of our ability but because the computer let us win.

For the first time since I installed JTL and went into space, I lost my desire to play the game. Instead, I just wanted to log off.

If you have concerns about the current state of the space AI, please continue to voice your opinion. Just saying it sucks and you are going to quit your account does not get anything accomplished. If you would like to help test our AI changes, please go to Test Center and play a little (there are ship AI changes on Test Center).

Am I mistaken that this current AI was already tested at the end of Betaand was removed after a large player outcry that the system was terrible?

After playing on Test Center please, come back by, say you played there, and voice your thoughts on what you liked, did not like, and any opinions on how it should be. This will help us the most in making the AI fun for everyone.

The live game is a test center, right now. That's the way it always is in any MMORPG after a new expansion comes out, especially one as revolutionary as JTL where, in essence, it's a whole new game.

I know some of you will complain that you have to start from scratch on Test Center. Honestly, it does not take very long to get through the first few tiers of JTL. Thanks for playing.

I don't have time to play test center. The hours I devote to playing my online game are not going to be wasted playing on a test center. I play for fun. And as I said, as of last night JTL was no longer fun for me.

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Iawalein wrote:
Well, I wouldn't call names, but your speed estimates in the Awing are incorrect.

I HAVE that engine in my Awing (the reward for the tier III missions I believe), and the "cruise" speed (max throttle) is 921. With full booster (I have a max speed 35 booster) I can get to 1204.

I see no way that you can get 1200+ cruise and 1500+ with booster unless I'm bugged...

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Engine overload droid commandswill put you up in those speeds.

Message Edited by Trystim on 11-17-2004 11:14 AM

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swgdevmbogue wrote:

We are aware of all the concerns and opinions about the AI. We are constantly adjusting the AI to make it challenging and fun.

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Suggestion: If you want to make the AI challenging and fun, do so by increasing their intelligence/ AI routines, NOT their statistics.

You can have a dumb AI and soup up their stats, and all you'll have is a really dumb AI with super stats - kinda like what we have now with these ultrasonic jousting bots.

Message Edited by Ducimus on 11-17-2004 11:16 AM

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Vicotnik wrote:

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Iawalein wrote:
Well, I wouldn't call names, but your speed estimates in the Awing are incorrect.

I HAVE that engine in my Awing (the reward for the tier III missions I believe), and the "cruise" speed (max throttle) is 921. With full booster (I have a max speed 35 booster) I can get to 1204.

I see no way that you can get 1200+ cruise and 1500+ with booster unless I'm bugged...

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Engine overload droid commandswill put you up in those speeds.

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Yes, I believe it was with the imperial-burned chip.

• If you read the first 30 posts in the thread you will see very specific comments about why the AI change is not viewed favorably. Personally I think it's just horrible how a tier 2 ship can out run my x-wing with the 92.2 speed engine - and I'm talking in the straight away.


• It takes more than 2 hours to get to 1111 on a server where you cannot buy a chasis or pay for the blueprint. At the end of 1111 you might just has enough cash to buy the ship you get attier 1 ship (not talkingz-95.) I'm sure the ability to sell loot doesn't change this equation much (as my test pilot sold what meger loot was aquired over the grind to 1111 and was faced with having to collect 15k credits for administrive fees generating the tier 1 ship.)


• All the time spent grinding on TC is grinding we have done on live. Most players have community they interact with on live servers and I for one wont spend my time grinding alone when I could spend it grinding with friends, or actually enjoying content (for the 50th time.)