Jump To Lightspeed Archive
Thread: SKILL POINTS
Gunnex
Mon May 24, 2004 12:25 am
#79
entered to soon in the last post, hehe....was still editing
I just want to reply with this comment: In real life a surgeon isn't a commando and a fighterpilot and a bioengineer too. To keep de balance in the game I think it's neccesary to limit the amount of skillpoints, it will be much more like in the movies. A hunter could use a pilot to get to other planets, a freighterpilot could do jobs for artisans to bring massive loads of resources to other planets.
Gnuut
Tue Jun 29, 2004 4:43 pm
#80
Alot of classes have requirements from their Basic profession that simply don't carry over into their Elite profession. Bounty Hunters most notably are having their requirements lifted in effect giving them 48 more points with which to work with. Smugglers and Commandos have requirements for the unarmed tree of brawler even though their respective Elite classes don't use these skills.
As a Master CM I almost never use any of the Organic Chem tree since Doctors can make medical supplies which are infinitely superior to mine. The Org Chem tree was useful back in the day when Advanced CM components were part of that tree. However that has changed and it is time to re-evaluate how useful the Organic Chem tree is to the CM profession.
My suggestion is to make CM require:
Medic 4440
Marksman 0004
Post your thoughts...
oblivion3134
Tue Jun 29, 2004 5:10 pm
#82
Water walking would be nice...
Edit: Just remembered....we already can attack from water
Message Edited by oblivion3134 on 06-29-2004 08:11 PM
vortexala
Tue Jun 29, 2004 5:12 pm
#83
oblivion3134 wrote:
Water walking would be nice...
Edit: Just remembered....we already can attack from water
Message Edited by oblivion3134 on 06-29-2004 08:11 PM
No, actually, we can't.
Gnuut
Tue Jun 29, 2004 5:21 pm
#84
oblivion3134 wrote:
Water walking would be nice...
Edit: Just remembered....we already can attack from water
Can't use offensive meds while swimming anymore
Pahdbacca
Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:46 pm
#85
I know it would be almost impossible to do, but any one line from either brawler or marksman would be optimal. I do believe that CMs that want to go melee get a VERY short end of the stick. I like melee very much (mastered both TKA and fencer) and hope it would be possible to do.
I'm kinda on the fence about organic chem. Part of me feels that a good Combat medic should have the same training as a master medic. On the other hand, however....organic chem is pretty worthless unless you are a Doc...in which case you would take it anyways.
Mild-Breeze-Trooper
Wed Jun 30, 2004 1:29 am
#86
Sounds nice to me, but if Doctors get area cures or ranged cures for poison then I want the Combat Support line prereq dropped.
Brainplay
Wed Jun 30, 2004 5:20 am
#87
Pahdbacca wrote:
I know it would be almost impossible to do, but any one line from either brawler or marksman would be optimal. I do believe that CMs that want to go melee get a VERY short end of the stick. I like melee very much (mastered both TKA and fencer) and hope it would be possible to do.
I'm kinda on the fence about organic chem. Part of me feels that a good Combat medic should have the same training as a master medic. On the other hand, however....organic chem is pretty worthless unless you are a Doc...in which case you would take it anyways.
Would also very much like to go melee as well. Right now its very hard for a ranged other than rifleman to stand up to ANY melee profession. Maybe if the ranged was increased or they were more suceptible to states from ranged weapons that would be different. Although I hear melee mitigation is being removed.
As to the point scale. Yes why should we have an organic chemistry tree when we cant even make our ranged stims without either A) Compromising the effectiveness by using sub-par subcomponents (5exp points) B) Buy them by the crate from Doctors who get a full 10 exp. points to use on them.
You can argue that "organic chemistry" is like biology and you need to know biology to make an effective biological poison/disease but that still doesn't address the stim problem. If you're going to take away our ability to devestate a vulnerable MIND and even potentially our ability to be the only ones to heal the mind what are we getting in return? Will it be worth the points if we HAVE to turn to doctors for our state cure, poison/disease cures, fire suppresion, resurrection, our own stim subcomponents, and of course BUFFS while we get to choose a regular poison (i.e. health or action since mind will be the same) or ranged healing?
Still cant believe that a medical profession that uses 30 points less than us has more battlefield support potential than we do.
jason67
Wed Jun 30, 2004 5:40 am
#88
Brainplay wrote:
Still cant believe that a medical profession that uses 30 points less than us has more battlefield support potential than we do.
Sorry but if you can't figure out how to make CM effective in PvP then your clearly doing something wrong. A doc may be able to cure states, heal disease/poison etc... but they are clearly not more powerful than a CM. The only really truely useful skills a Doc has while in PvP(assuming 1vs1) is that they are buffed(which anyone can be) and they have the ability to heal large amounts of damage(which a CM also can do). Under certain circumstances being able to heal a poison/disease is beneficial but if you are taking the time to heal states while in the middle of a battle with me, then you have already lost. In large scale PvP a doc's ability to cure becomes more useful as those people that need it can come to you. However even then they almost always have another disease/poison put on them within seconds of re-joining battle. A doc has to be right next to you in order to heal, which means he has to be within range of the battle. However a CM can heal from a distance, and can use area heals to heal large groups of players at once. If you are within range then you also have the ability to heal the mind which is a huge advantage in PvP.
Aside from just the healing aspect is the more important difference that Doc's have absolutely NO combat skills. A doc can not defend himself at all while a CM has the ability to use devastating poisons/diseases on their attacker.
Sorry for this rant but I just am tired of hearing everyone complain that their character/profession is the most worthless POS in the game and needs dire attention now. Perhaps it's not the build but the player instead!!! If you can't figure out how to use CM in PvP then I'm sorry but you're simply not cut out for PvP then. CM is clearly the strongest single PvP class in the game at the moment. I did a 2 vs 1 duel we were all unbuffed(meaning I had 400health/action), I was wearing nothing but a fleshwrap and my current skill set at the time was master combat medic/master artisian. I won the duel against two other opponents who were fully armored in composites while I was wearing a fleshwrap. Both were master Melee professions, one a fencer and I don't recall what the other was and I was only using poisons and an uncertified scout blaster.
jkray8472
Wed Jun 30, 2004 5:56 am
#89
There had been some talk a while back about moving the CM subcomponents back into the Organic Tree line. Then making those subcomponents necessary in the creation of Cure Poison/Cure Disease packs for doctors--thus making them partially dependant upon CMs. It would leave doctors in the same boat that CMs are in--either use sub-par subcomponents, or buy them from the profession that gets full experimentation.
Personally I liked the idea. It would actually give CMs some sort of cash flow. :/
Personally I liked the idea. It would actually give CMs some sort of cash flow. :/
Happymob
Wed Jun 30, 2004 6:35 am
#90
Brainplay wrote:
Would also very much like to go melee as well.
I agree that flxibility would be nice. Problem is, ranged support really does make the most sense as a pre-req tree (it's the same way with squad leader - it would be nice if they couldchoose abrawler line instead of the ranged support line, but...).
As to the point scale. Yes why should we have an organic chemistry tree when we cant even make our ranged stims without either A) Compromising the effectiveness by using sub-par subcomponents (5exp points) B) Buy them by the crate from Doctors who get a full 10 exp. points to use on them.
The exact same argument could be made for bio-engineers (who need doctor subs to make the best pet stims). Dependency on doctor is not a bad thing. I agree that a little reverse dependency (for poison and disease cures) would be nice as well.
If you're going to take away our ability to devestate a vulnerable MIND and even potentially our ability to be the only ones to heal the mind what are we getting in return?
I'm not really worried about this. I have little doubt that the combat rebalance will effectively nerf our offense (if only because mind won't be special). But I have a feeling that once mind is healable, our area stims will become the single most useful item on the battlefield. One combat medic will be worth 3 or 4 doctors in terms of damage healing (though doctors are still needed for things like rez). Our offense will go down and our defense support will go up. It may be that we won't be worth 169 skill points after the rebalance, but I suspect that we will be.
Of course, I could be very wrong.
jfang
Wed Jun 30, 2004 8:35 am
#91
The reason why BH's were having their SP requirements changed was they have significant problems and balance issues which could not wait for the combat revamp or a BH specific revamp. I would ask of any profession that wants to have an SP requirement changed "do you have similar pressing issues?" I can not speak for other professions, but I think combat medics can not in good faith say they areexceptionally underpowered for the SP requirements they have.
My second concern is that the SP requirements were instantiated such that people couldn't do everything they wanted to. In essence SP is the limitation on power. I do not think that they should be changed lightly (and I expect a great deal of fallout, a significant amountnegative,from the BH SP change). The goal of an SPchange such as this would be to both allow master combat medics to also master a crafting profession or a melee profession, which I am not convinced is a good thing. A secondary result would be that the cry for "let CM's fully experiment subcomponents" (as 1 experimentation point is basically worthless)will become even more pressing which will likely eventually make CM's more independent. While this might be good for the combat medics, I think fostering profession independence is ultimately detrimental to the health of a *MM*ORPG.
Third, I would say that organic cemistry is very used by combat medics. I use it whenever I craft wound packs, for example. I used it extensively when climbing the combat medic skill tree, and when crafting the majority of my stims (until I had mastered combat medic and made my "final schematics"). Not to mention that it makes logical sense, as a battlefield medic would need to be able craft medical supplies in an emergency situation. Finally, a combat medic should be the best type of medic around (read: at least a master medic), assuming you subscribe to the battlefield healers vision of combat medics. Alternatively, a biological warriorwould also also need to know organic chemistry to craft effective poisons and diseases.
By using the "you don't use it" argument, If anything I would say that a doctor should be able to get by with organic chemistry and pharmacology... But for balance issues that should not happen.