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Thread: SKILL POINTS
MonsofoLexius
Wed Jun 30, 2004 10:24 am
#92
I do not have confirmation of this, but I read on another board that Master Scout is being removed in TC as a requirment for BH, I don't know if this will go live or not (or if it is even true) but what would be the implications to total skill points spent to power ratio for us? Looks like commando, BH and CMwould be close to the same skill points (one more tree than us) then us and Docs.
TheDarkTrumpet
Wed Jun 30, 2004 10:28 am
#93
All was discussed here: http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=ranger&message.id=55716
and yes, it's being removed, 3 of the trees.
and yes, it's being removed, 3 of the trees.
Calculus_Entropy
Wed Jun 30, 2004 10:28 am
#94
There is a post from JustG in the Dev Tracker that state just that. There is also a thread in this (ranger) forum that discusses the topic 
.
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Gnuut
Wed Jun 30, 2004 11:01 am
#95
I can live with the SP requirements but the problem is that whilw other classes are looking for ways to "trim the fat" then so should we. What would happen if the DEVs come to us and ask "CM community, we are looking for ideas on how to cut down on your SP cost, what do you suggest?" I would like us to be prepared with an answer.
As for as the "you don't use it" argument, while you may make some woundpacks every once in a while to supplement yourself, not every CM does. The fact is that because Organic Chem uses Medical Experimentation, we are limited to the quality we can obtain on these meds. I don't mind being dependant on Docs. What I do mind is having to pay a point cost and on top of that be dependant on them. That is like requiring Doctors to have Hunting 4 in the Scout tree on the justification that they need this skill to acquire meat for their meds. We know all too well Rangers are by far better at acquiring meat anyway.
What I'm asking is all or nothing. Make us fully dependant on Doctors and Master Medics to obtain the best components for our stims. Or make the Organic Chem tree worth keeping on its own. An idea for this would be to give the Org Chem tree a full 10 points of Medical Experimentation and give the Doctor tree a full 10 points of Doctor Medical Experimentation.
As far as being a better medic by crafting in real life...I was a firefighter and a paramedic, both volunteer and military. I never once had to craft anything short of a sling and a tourniquet in the field to excel in my job. Hell this one time I used the cellophane wrapper off my pack of smokes to help a patient with a sucking chest wound.
BHs have gone on and on about the RP value of their Scout requirements. I've always understood that they are supposed to excel at being "Manhunters". Yet they are losing the requirement for the Hunting tree? They are supposed to be loners in any environment yet they have no use the Survival tree? Lastly I can agree unless BHs are given traps that work on humanoids then they truly have no use for the trapping tree.
Other classes are in the same situation where their skills from their basic profession don't carry over into their Elite profession. Good or bad, right or wrong some classes have this disadvantage and others don't.
jfang
Wed Jun 30, 2004 11:20 am
#96
Gnuut wrote:
I can live with the SP requirements but the problem is that whilw other classes are looking for ways to "trim the fat" then so should we. What would happen if the DEVs come to us and ask "CM community, we are looking for ideas on how to cut down on your SP cost, what do you suggest?" I would like us to be prepared with an answer.
There in lies the problem I have with this idea. I don't think other classes are "trimming the fat", or at least they should not. The BH requirement change is more of a stop-gag exception than a rule for the future. Otherwise the idea of hybrid classes somewhat goes out the window, as you are right in that most hybrid professions have only limited use for one of their skill trees.
I would prefer most SP costs were not touched until a few months after the combat revamp, as that is going to have wide spead implications. However, assuming a dev said "we are getting rid of some skill trees, choose which you want", I would actually say that pharmacology is as little use as crafting. There is a Combat Medic Use skill already, and knowing how substances affect the body is as important/unimportant as being able to craft said substances.
Another possibility which I think is more creative would be to change the requirements for CMto something like2222 medic. "Part way through your medical education, you stop formal training and concentrating on technique (doctor) and move into a more applied field of medicine (combat medic)". That of course won't happen, but...
Just to reiterate, my personal view is that SP is supposed to be a bottleneck though, and I think that lowering SP requirements encourages solo play and is thus bad for the long term health of a multiplayer game, whether it helps combat medics or hurts commandos, or helps TK, or what not. The BH should be considered a special case and not taken as a sign that other hybrid classes should change requirements (especially as once SP costs are reduced they will never be able to convince the players to raise them again).
eapers
Wed Jun 30, 2004 12:09 pm
#97
Without getting into a talk about combat medic roles or visions, here's what I think.I don't think any combat medic ever usesmedic crafting, as we are unable to craft decent components with only 5 experimentation points. It comes down to if we need as large a skill point sinkthan we currently have. If the Devs are trying to reduce skill point sinks, this is the first place to start with combat medic.
Gnuut wrote:
Medic 4440
Marksman 0004
sounds good. As it currently stands, we are not elite master medics.. thats what doctors are.
oblivion3134
Wed Jun 30, 2004 5:56 pm
#98
jfang wrote:
The reason why BH's were having their SP requirements changed was they have significant problems and balance issues which could not wait for the combat revamp or a BH specific revamp. I would ask of any profession that wants to have an SP requirement changed "do you have similar pressing issues?" I can not speak for other professions, but I think combat medics can not in good faith say they areexceptionally underpowered for the SP requirements they have.
My second concern is that the SP requirements were instantiated such that people couldn't do everything they wanted to. In essence SP is the limitation on power. I do not think that they should be changed lightly (and I expect a great deal of fallout, a significant amountnegative,from the BH SP change). The goal of an SPchange such as this would be to both allow master combat medics to also master a crafting profession or a melee profession, which I am not convinced is a good thing. A secondary result would be that the cry for "let CM's fully experiment subcomponents" (as 1 experimentation point is basically worthless)will become even more pressing which will likely eventually make CM's more independent. While this might be good for the combat medics, I think fostering profession independence is ultimately detrimental to the health of a *MM*ORPG.
Third, I would say that organic cemistry is very used by combat medics. I use it whenever I craft wound packs, for example. I used it extensively when climbing the combat medic skill tree, and when crafting the majority of my stims (until I had mastered combat medic and made my "final schematics"). Not to mention that it makes logical sense, as a battlefield medic would need to be able craft medical supplies in an emergency situation. Finally, a combat medic should be the best type of medic around (read: at least a master medic), assuming you subscribe to the battlefield healers vision of combat medics. Alternatively, a biological warriorwould also also need to know organic chemistry to craft effective poisons and diseases.
By using the "you don't use it" argument, If anything I would say that a doctor should be able to get by with organic chemistry and pharmacology... But for balance issues that should not happen.
Quoted for truth. Listen to this guy plz.
TsunamiKata
Fri Jul 09, 2004 1:02 pm
#99
The only thing I will add to this is, Master Combat Medic is now the most expensive profession in this game and most difficultprofession to diversify.
Hmm.......
Chew on that for a while.
jkray8472
Fri Jul 09, 2004 1:19 pm
#100
Lol, to be fair--it's a 3-way tie between CM, Commando, and BH.
Although Jedi Knight requires all skillpoints in the Jedi trees.
TsunamiKata
Fri Jul 09, 2004 1:22 pm
#101
jkray8472 wrote:
Lol, to be fair--it's a 3-way tie between CM, Commando, and BH.
When is the last time you saw a Master Commando or a Master BH?
jkray8472
Fri Jul 09, 2004 1:31 pm
#102
Have some in my guild. Was both of those on my holo-grind.
Really...none of the three professions are worth that many skillpoints. BH might be worth it, except with the new weapon-switching delay, their profession got hurt pretty badly.
jfang
Fri Jul 09, 2004 1:34 pm
#103
I just thought of something. Not including bleeds (which do less damage over time now), and not including CH's pet's (because we know how... consistent those are), those three classes are the ony three which have access to DOT attacks, right?
I wonder if that is purely coincidence...
jkray8472
Fri Jul 09, 2004 1:37 pm
#104
Well, the BHs have various bleeds, and they have one fire shot (TorsoShot). Their LightningCone2 is supposed to have an "electricity" based dot, which I think is totally broken.
Don't forget about all the dot weapons however. :/