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Thread: An attempt at reasonable pricing JerGo Spacecraft Sales Ship Pricing/Resource Info. NDA Lifted
BrotherDavius
Sat Oct 23, 2004 9:45 am
#79
DingoBoi wrote:
Duhauste wrote:
I think the poster was just posting a friendly EXAMPLE silly ppl thinking the poster took the time to do it and didnt know cpu was low its a EXAMPLE fools besides ...he didnt list the ship parts / equipment so...get over it and why blast him if he was really selling that low.
a typical conversation:
CheapArse1: Hey, how much is XXX ship?
Shipwright: It's 300K for the blueprint.
ChearArse1: 300K? Are you crazy.. It's not worth that... Jergo sells them for 140K.
Shipwright: Then go buy one from Jergo.
CheapArse1: He doesn't have any and his order list is a mile long.
Shipwright: then wait or buy one at my price. Resources are valuable.
CheapArse1: No they aren't. Jergo sells his at 1cpu.
Shipwright: Why would I make ships that use resources worth 3cpu and sell them at 1cpu? Easier to just sell the resources then.
CheapArse1: Because Jergo does
Shipwright: Then go buy one from Jergo.
CheapArse1: But he doesn't have any.
Shipwright: /addignore cheaparse1
For all you know this guy could be the richest person in this game for all you know he dose not care about cash.
Let me ask you are holos worth 10 mill are crystals worth 3-10 mill should armor and weapons sell for millions? the answer to that is no so why should ships?
Also it depends on how much he will sell the parts for them ships, so in the end he could still make a profit.
jackylstar
Sat Oct 23, 2004 9:53 am
#80
The reason why a lot of shipwrights are complaining about this is, that it is in reality dirt cheap. To the point of being so cheap its actually costing the shipwright money. I for one will be charging on average 4 cpu, which I have to state will be based on the quality of resource. If they are grind material resources and thats all thats available at the time I will lower the price. However if by chance there are top notch resources then my price will effect that also.
For instance I am a master Architect and only sell at 4cpu, where as I know another architect that sells way above my prices at about 8 or 9 cpu. Ppl continue to buy from him because they have no insight as to how many resources go into making certain furniture. I however do not feel justified in selling that high and in turn I still make a lot of sales and more importantly do profit from my products.
IMO this is how it will always be, when the ship market settles, you will get ppl that overcharge but for the most part ppl will set a fair price. The main issue with this thread is that the prices are low, too low. Lets all hope that whome ever crafts our ships they all set a fair price for themsleves as well as the customer.
I think for the most part ppl that havernt beta tested will be shocked as to how much goes into crafting an average ship. Let alone a very good one.
tIme2DiE
Sat Oct 23, 2004 10:30 am
#81
jackylstar wrote:
The reason why a lot of shipwrights are complaining about this is, that it is in reality dirt cheap. To the point of being so cheap its actually costing the shipwright money. I for one will be charging on average 4 cpu, which I have to state will be based on the quality of resource. If they are grind material resources and thats all thats available at the time I will lower the price. However if by chance there are top notch resources then my price will effect that also.
For instance I am a master Architect and only sell at 4cpu, where as I know another architect that sells way above my prices at about 8 or 9 cpu. Ppl continue to buy from him because they have no insight as to how many resources go into making certain furniture. I however do not feel justified in selling that high and in turn I still make a lot of sales and more importantly do profit from my products.
IMO this is how it will always be, when the ship market settles, you will get ppl that overcharge but for the most part ppl will set a fair price. The main issue with this thread is that the prices are low, too low. Lets all hope that whome ever crafts our ships they all set a fair price for themsleves as well as the customer.
I think for the most part ppl that havernt beta tested will be shocked as to how much goes into crafting an average ship. Let alone a very good one.
I see many shops that sell resources at 1 cpu-2cpu. So 1 cpu plus "Labor Cost" doesn't sound like such a good deal as some of these people are making it sound like.
What architect sells for 8 cpu? wow, When I was an architect I would get about 2 cpu.
BrotherDavius
Sat Oct 23, 2004 10:33 am
#82
What server you on (i hope it is farstar)
CarpetGunk wrote:
Below is a list of ships, grouped together according to the resources required to make them. Ships from different factions that require the same amount and type of resources are priced equally as to not show any favoritism to a specific faction. Please allow time for me to master Shipwright to have access to all ship blueprints.
* All resources cost 1cpu except siliclastic ore and copper, and those are only 2cpu.
** Total cost = Resource cost + plus an incremental increase of 20k in labor per level of ship
*** When you buy a particular ship blueprint - you still have to take it to a Starship Chassis Broker (NPC) located in most major starports for him to turn it into an actual chassis. Shipwrights have no control over this. A reactor and engine must be equipped on the ship in order to at least get it into space and must be purchased/looted/acquired seperately. You have to be certified to fly these ships, so don't waste money now, on a ship you won't be able to fly for some time to come (if money is an issue).
Ship Faction Color Key
Privateer (Neutral) Ships
Rebel Ships
Imperial Ships
1) Syck (Both Styles)
2) Z-95 Headhunter
3) TIE Light Duty
Frame: 2k Steel @ 1cpu
Structural Support: 1k Low Grade Ore @ 1cpu
Base Chassis Plating: 1k Low Grade Ore @ 1cpu
Aluminum Ship Skin: 1k Aluminum @ 1cpu
________________________________________
TOTAL COST: Above resources = 5k + 20k labor = 25,000 Credits
4) Dunelizard (Both styles)
5) Y-Wing (NOT Longprobe version)
6) TIE Fighter
Frame: 5k Steel @ 1cpu
Advanced Chassis Frame Infrastructure: 2k Steel @ 1cpu
Structural Support: 2k Low Grade Ore @ 1cpu
Base Chassis Plating: 2k Low Grade Ore @ 1cpu
Basic Heat Shielding: 2k Inert Petrochemical @ 1cpu
Aluminum Ship Skin: 2k Aluminum @ 1cpu
________________________________________
TOTAL COST: Above resources = 15k + 40k labor = 55,000 Credits
7) Kihraxz (All 4 Styles)
8) Kimogila (Both Styles)
9) Y-Wing "Longprobe" Version
10) TIE/In Space Superiority Starfighter
Frame: 9k Steel @ 1cpu
Advanced Chassis Frame Infrastructure: 3k Steel @ 1cpu
Structural Support: 3k Low Grade Ore @ 1cpu
Base Chassis Plating: 3k Low Grade Ore @ 1cpu
Basic Heat Shielding: 3k Inert Petrochemical @ 1cpu
Aluminum Ship Skin: 3k Aluminum @ 1cpu
Chassis Shock Absorption Layer: 3k Iron @ 1cpu
Cockpit Insulation: 3k Fiberplast @ 1cpu
________________________________________
TOTAL COST: Above resources = 30k + 60k labor = 90,000 Credits
11) Ixiyen Fast Attack (All 4 styles)
12) X-Wing
13) TIE Bomber
14) TIE Interceptor
Frame: 18k Steel @ 1cpu
Advanced Chassis Frame Infrastructure: 6k Steel @ 1cpu
Structural Support: 6k Low Grade Ore @ 1cpu
Base Chassis Plating: 6k Low Grade Ore @ 1cpu
Basic Heat Shielding: 6k Inert Petrochemical @ 1cpu
Aluminum Ship Skin: 6k Aluminum @ 1cpu
Chassis Shock Absorption Layer: 6k Iron @ 1cpu
Cockpit Insulation: 6k Fiberplast @ 1cpu
________________________________________
TOTAL COST: Above resources = 60k + 80k labor = 140,000 Credits
15) Rihkxyrk (All 4 Styles)
16) A-Wing
17) TIE Advanced
18) TIE Aggressor
Frame: 24k Steel @ 1cpu
Advanced Chassis Frame Infrastructure: 8k Steel @ 1cpu
Structural Support: 8k Low Grade Ore @ 1cpu
Base Chassis Plating: 8k Low Grade Ore @ 1cpu
Basic Heat Shielding: 8k Inert Petrochemical @ 1cpu
Aluminum Ship Skin: 8k Aluminum @ 1cpu
Chassis Shock Absorption Layer: 8k Iron @ 1cpu
Cockpit Insulation: 8k Fiberplast @ 1cpu
________________________________________
TOTAL COST: Above resources = 80k + 100k labor = 180,000 Credits
19) YT-1300
20) VT-49
21) YKL-37R
22) B-Wing
23) TIE Oppressor
Frame: 60k Steel @ 1cpu
Advanced Chassis Frame Infrastructure: 10k Steel @ 1cpu
Structural Support: 10k Low Grade Ore @ 1cpu
Base Chassis Plating: 10k Low Grade Ore @ 1cpu
Basic Heat Shielding: 10k Inert Petrochemical @ 1cpu
Aluminum Ship Skin: 10k Aluminum @ 1cpu
Chassis Shock Absorption Layer: 10k Iron @ 1cpu
Cockpit Insulation: 10k Fiberplast @ 1cpu
Advanced Chassis Structural Support: 10k Siliclastic Ore @ 2cpu
Pulse Shielding: 10k Copper @ 2cpu
________________________________________
TOTAL COST: Above resources = 170k + 120k labor = 290,000 Credits
.
Nicro
Sat Oct 23, 2004 10:53 am
#83
those would be cheap if he didnt harvest his own resorces. and even if on most servers it wont be posible to get ships at 1 cpu at lest this gives us an idea of what some one should charge at 2 or 3 cpu just by pluging the numbers in, im not a crafter and those prices i can affored. maybe. so i hope they dont go above 2 or 3 cpu on my server+labor
Diorchas
Sat Oct 23, 2004 11:09 am
#84
A fair price for starships would be 2-4cpu for lower quality ships and 4-6cpu for higher quality.
mkummer
Sat Oct 23, 2004 1:55 pm
#85
No he will for sure make a profit. When he harvests everything himself the ressource costs are around 0.25-0.3 cpu. When he charges 1 cpu for essources then he makes 200-300% profit on them plus what he charges for his work. So at the end it will not bea loss for him, it will be a profit, around 500-600% or more from the pure ressource cost (of course he has to work for that). He is just not making the 1600% or more profit you get with selling the ressources for 4 cpu or more.
BrotherDavius wrote:
For all you know this guy could be the richest person in this game for all you know he dose not care about cash.
Let me ask you are holos worth 10 mill are crystals worth 3-10 mill should armor and weapons sell for millions? the answer to that is no so why should ships?
Also it depends on how much he will sell the parts for them ships, so in the end he could still make a profit.
BrotherDavius
Sat Oct 23, 2004 1:57 pm
#86
mkummer wrote:
No he will for sure make a profit. When he harvests everything himself the ressource costs are around 0.25-0.3 cpu. When he charges 1 cpu for essources then he makes 200-300% profit on them plus what he charges for his work. So at the end it will not bea loss for him, it will be a profit, around 500-600% or more from the pure ressource cost (of course he has to work for that). He is just not making the 1600% or more profit you get with selling the ressources for 4 cpu or more.
BrotherDavius wrote:
For all you know this guy could be the richest person in this game for all you know he dose not care about cash.
Let me ask you are holos worth 10 mill are crystals worth 3-10 mill should armor and weapons sell for millions? the answer to that is no so why should ships?
Also it depends on how much he will sell the parts for them ships, so in the end he could still make a profit.
So why is everyone saying that he will not?
mkummer
Sat Oct 23, 2004 2:13 pm
#87
BrotherDavius wrote:
So why is everyone saying that he will not?
Because it is not even half of what they think would be a good profit.
RazBlack
Sat Oct 23, 2004 2:16 pm
#88
are these ships smaller than a land speeder or swoop... ?????????
the amount of resources for some of the lower end ships is way less than it takes to make a swoop...LOLOL
DingoBoi
Sat Oct 23, 2004 3:33 pm
#89
CarpetGunk wrote:
- Dingoboi - I've admitted to nothing. Don't put words in my mouth ok cool guy? actually, I thought we already covered this: I wrote:
My point is that he is claiming these are 'reasonable' prices when they are anything but. He is attempting to set market expectations and he is woefully low by the vast accounts of the majority (the majority being the many pricing threads on beta forums). And anyone selling below the range of fair market value for the resources cannot claim these are reasonable expectations of pricing. They are extremely low-balled, cut rate and an attempt to bottom out the market.
and you wrote:
"How many times do I have to say I don't care what *resources* are worth!?
There is no "fair market value" for SHIPS yet- I am trying to influence what the ship market STARTS out at, so people likeDingo won't screw over their servers..."
I really grow weary of pointing out your lies.
- Since the selling of these resources in this GAME don't affect my real LIFE, I don't care what they sell for. I'm starting aSHIP market, not a resource market. kthx /sigh. again, yes this is a game but the game is based upon a virtual economy. You need resources to make product. Your resources have an inherent value and if they are 4 to 5 star like you always feel the need to proclaim, then they would sell on open market for 5+cpu. and you plan on selling them for 1cpu? /giggle. Whether or not this is real life is not the point. The point is that you are trying to fark with an economy and crash the market.. BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION.
- I've said this a million times and I'll say it again. I have millions and millions in resources, and I've been constantly harvesting since April and am continuing to harvest. just like everyone else...
- You don't need to worry about me not being able to supply people with ships. believe it when it see it. Demand at 1cpu.. mmmkay... you'll be busy that's for sure... busy paying other people to buy your product.. and that's what you are doing.. selling a 5cpu value resource at 1cpu is a 4cpu loss... in essense, paying others to buy your product.
- Oh, and don't worry about the other major shipwrights buying me out. They're good people, I know them. I've been playing since launch. Besides, if some buyout attempts are made, I'll catch on to it quickly.
- Well, I think we're about done here Dingoboi - you're going to flame me some more and call me an idiot again, and flame me a little more, and tell me I admiited to something else that I DIDN'T, but that's ok...already caught you in that lie.
- Your posts reveal how unprepared you are, and that is a very funny thing. This is now starting to interest me. You always seem to want to say i'm unprepared and greedy. I'd really like to see you break down points of each in a serious manner. How have my posts indicated i'm not prepared. How is wanting a fair return on worth of resources plus labor greedy? I really am interested here... because you can't do it... whoops.. another lie you were caught in?
Nothing but love for you Dingo!
It's a vicious cycle. Dingoboi flames because he's unprepared, oh, and because he think's I'm messing up the ship market (that doesn't exist yet) and then I go, no, no, you're just unprepared. more rhetoric... put up or shut up
CHECK IT OUT EVERYONE! HERE COME THE FLAMES!
Please Dingo! Respond! I can't wait to continue putting up with your incessant and annoying blabber!
/sarcasm off I'm waiting for you to respond with anything other than your own blabber.. you spew rhetoric and make no valid points.
Edit: Why are you selling your power resources at 1.5cpu!?!? THAT'S TOO CHEAP! YOU'RE GOING TO CRASH THE ENERGY MARKET! YOU MUST RAISE THEM NOW FOR STAR WARS GALAXIES TO SURVIVE!! I know this was a weak, very weak, attempt at sarcasm, but since you don't understand the power industry, much like you don't understand the concepts of 'opportunity cost' or resource value, I'll explain. First off, I sell at 1.5cpEu, not 1.5cpu. Sales price after adjusting for pe is between 1.5 and 3cpu. The net average sales prices is less than mine on eclipse. I'm the largest power broker in the galaxy and spend alot of time on the business. I was the largest power broker in all the galaxies for at least 9 months, but I haven't kept up on other galaxies. How did i do it you ask? Cross server lot trades or some exploit you are thinking i'm sure.. but no. I *gasp* employed real players on eclipse to harvest for me and resold at a markup. If I was greedy like you seem to think i am, i would have done the best minerals each cycle with my 26 employees and made much much more than I did in power. And if you must know.. I actually doubled the cost of power overnight on our server when the mineral harvester buff went in. See, that's an example of opportunity cost. The mineral buff was much more an encouragement to stop harvesting power and switch to minerals. In order to keep harvesting power, it had to be more on par with minerals.. so i increased the price. The value of a product/resource is what people will pay for it. The value THEY place on it is dictated by their demand for it. There is no gouging here.
ROFFLE!@!@!
Message Edited by CarpetGunk on 10-23-2004 08:25 AM
DingoBoi
Sat Oct 23, 2004 3:46 pm
#90
BrotherDavius wrote:
mkummer wrote:
No he will for sure make a profit. When he harvests everything himself the ressource costs are around 0.25-0.3 cpu. When he charges 1 cpu for essources then he makes 200-300% profit on them plus what he charges for his work. So at the end it will not bea loss for him, it will be a profit, around 500-600% or more from the pure ressource cost (of course he has to work for that). He is just not making the 1600% or more profit you get with selling the ressources for 4 cpu or more.
BrotherDavius wrote:
For all you know this guy could be the richest person in this game for all you know he dose not care about cash.
Let me ask you are holos worth 10 mill are crystals worth 3-10 mill should armor and weapons sell for millions? the answer to that is no so why should ships?
Also it depends on how much he will sell the parts for them ships, so in the end he could still make a profit.
So why is everyone saying that he will not?
I'll chime in here. The reason being is that it does take time, quite a bit of time for some to harvest resources. I've spent many times over 3.5 hours surveying an entire planet for the best spot locations for a single resource. Not just plunking down on the first spot I found. There is the time cost, the equipment cost, the opportunity cost, the salary and maintenance costs. Being a serious miner incurs serious expenses. But the utmost is time. Time is valuable. I provide a service that my customers don't want to perform themselves... or that they feel they can bettermake profit by buying my power and using that harvester spot to harvest minerals.
We run psuedo business' here. And yes, it still works on real work principles. To make Jergo's business model valid.. Lamborghini would have to start selling their vehicles for the price of a yugo. The comparison there is perfect and I hope you see it. Now Jergo doesn't care about profit really. And that's fine, but he is purposely trying to set an advance expectation of pricing that does not fit within any market parameters that exist in SWG. Namely, resources that would most easily sell at 3cpu, andmore likely much higher if he is to be believed they are all 4-5 star resources, should not be sold as finished product at 1cpu. That goes against all reason and business sense.. but then again, he is just trying to screw the fair market, much like architects.
CarpetGunk
Sat Oct 23, 2004 3:56 pm
#91
DINGO, I never said the word admit. I sure as heck didn't admit to "trying to ruin" the resource market.
But, yes, I have said, I don't care about the resource market. I harvest my own.
I'm going to build ships, and sell the SHIPS at what I want to, I AM NOT IN THE RESOURCE MARKET...
So anyway DINGO, I didn't really read much of your response, because as predicted, it was the same stuff...
And by the way, YOU are the one with incessant blabber. I posted my ship prices, you chose to respond, which caused your ludicrous chain of annoying responses...
So, again, do you have to respond again? Or... are you just going to repeat yourself?
Your arguments against the prices I CHOOSE TO CHARGE FOR MY SHIPS THAT I HAVE PLENTY OF QUALITY RESOURCES TO BUILD AND WILL CONTINUE TO HARVEST MY OWN QUALITY RESOURCES FOR, ARE INVALID - YOU DO NOT DICTATE WHAT ANYONE CHARGES FOR THEIR OWN PRODUCTS. HOW MUCH OF A MORON ARE YOU? STAY ON YOUR SERVER AND RIP OFF YOUR CUSTOMERS THERE!
I AM NOT IN THE RESOURCE MARKET - I AM GOING TO SELL SHIPS
I AM NOT IN THE RESOURCE MARKET - I AM GOING TO SELL SHIPS
I AM NOT IN THE RESOURCE MARKET - I AM GOING TO SELL SHIPS
I AM NOT IN THE RESOURCE MARKET - I AM GOING TO SELL SHIPS
I AM NOT IN THE RESOURCE MARKET - I AM GOING TO SELL SHIPS
I AM NOT IN THE RESOURCE MARKET - I AM GOING TO SELL SHIPS
I AM NOT IN THE RESOURCE MARKET - I AM GOING TO SELL SHIPS
I AM NOT IN THE RESOURCE MARKET - I AM GOING TO SELL SHIPS
I AM NOT IN THE RESOURCE MARKET - I AM GOING TO SELL SHIPS
I AM NOT IN THE RESOURCE MARKET - I AM GOING TO SELL SHIPS
I AM USING MY OWN RESOURCES
I AM USING MY OWN RESOURCES
I AM USING MY OWN RESOURCES
I AM USING MY OWN RESOURCES
I AM USING MY OWN RESOURCES
I AM USING MY OWN RESOURCES
I AM USING MY OWN RESOURCES
I AM USING MY OWN RESOURCES
I AM USING MY OWN RESOURCES
I AM USING MY OWN RESOURCES
Ooohhhh... I get it.. You're being so idiotic about this because your potential customers are also reading this... LOL - I get it.
Edit: BTW, this "resource economy" that you refer to is something that was virtually defined on servers, the servers do not define what *I* will charge for ships that I make.
Have fun ripping off your customers.
But, yes, I have said, I don't care about the resource market. I harvest my own.
I'm going to build ships, and sell the SHIPS at what I want to, I AM NOT IN THE RESOURCE MARKET...
So anyway DINGO, I didn't really read much of your response, because as predicted, it was the same stuff...
And by the way, YOU are the one with incessant blabber. I posted my ship prices, you chose to respond, which caused your ludicrous chain of annoying responses...
So, again, do you have to respond again? Or... are you just going to repeat yourself?
Your arguments against the prices I CHOOSE TO CHARGE FOR MY SHIPS THAT I HAVE PLENTY OF QUALITY RESOURCES TO BUILD AND WILL CONTINUE TO HARVEST MY OWN QUALITY RESOURCES FOR, ARE INVALID - YOU DO NOT DICTATE WHAT ANYONE CHARGES FOR THEIR OWN PRODUCTS. HOW MUCH OF A MORON ARE YOU? STAY ON YOUR SERVER AND RIP OFF YOUR CUSTOMERS THERE!
I AM NOT IN THE RESOURCE MARKET - I AM GOING TO SELL SHIPS
I AM NOT IN THE RESOURCE MARKET - I AM GOING TO SELL SHIPS
I AM NOT IN THE RESOURCE MARKET - I AM GOING TO SELL SHIPS
I AM NOT IN THE RESOURCE MARKET - I AM GOING TO SELL SHIPS
I AM NOT IN THE RESOURCE MARKET - I AM GOING TO SELL SHIPS
I AM NOT IN THE RESOURCE MARKET - I AM GOING TO SELL SHIPS
I AM NOT IN THE RESOURCE MARKET - I AM GOING TO SELL SHIPS
I AM NOT IN THE RESOURCE MARKET - I AM GOING TO SELL SHIPS
I AM NOT IN THE RESOURCE MARKET - I AM GOING TO SELL SHIPS
I AM NOT IN THE RESOURCE MARKET - I AM GOING TO SELL SHIPS
I AM USING MY OWN RESOURCES
I AM USING MY OWN RESOURCES
I AM USING MY OWN RESOURCES
I AM USING MY OWN RESOURCES
I AM USING MY OWN RESOURCES
I AM USING MY OWN RESOURCES
I AM USING MY OWN RESOURCES
I AM USING MY OWN RESOURCES
I AM USING MY OWN RESOURCES
I AM USING MY OWN RESOURCES
Ooohhhh... I get it.. You're being so idiotic about this because your potential customers are also reading this... LOL - I get it.
Edit: BTW, this "resource economy" that you refer to is something that was virtually defined on servers, the servers do not define what *I* will charge for ships that I make.
Have fun ripping off your customers.
Message Edited by CarpetGunk on 10-23-2004 04:02 PM