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Zahrin wrote:

I spend more time than you, play better, and know the game better. Of all of these, playing the most, sadly enough, is the most important factor in an MMO. Simple fact. Maybe the analogy was poor, but it illustrates why time invested is so important. You spend more time, you get more rewards. I camp Axkva Mihn more than you do, I get more shot at loot. I spend more time killing Krayts than you do, I get more pearls. You spend more time RP'ing...I guess...you entertain yourself...but you're going to lose in PvP to me, which IS the end-game, whether you like it or not.

Read back to the original Jedi archives...it was said a few times that Roleplayers would be discouraged with the life of a Jedi and would not do well.

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1. How would you know that with me being on Chilastra and you being on Ahazi?


2. Even if the two of us were on the same server, what would be the criteria to determine who 'plays better' than the other?


3. What in the Hell do you know about the game that isn't being made readily availible to anyone with displaying real intelligence and reviewing the tons of information readily availible to anyone via the forums. Including people not playing SWG.

If you want to make comparisons based on time investment, fine. You spend3-6 hourshitting the same key repetively to receive a text message food pellet pat on the back. I spend3-6 hours withmy girlfriend doing things the board filters and mods won't let me describe to receivea nice,pleasantly exhausted feeling, a satisfied smile on my face and a 10.0 for Originality from the judges.

Sorry bub, only in a game can you believe you are better than that. Everywhere elseIR T3H Winneh!

You seriously need to both grow up and reevaluate priorities. Only a seriously delusional person would believe that their advancement in a game makes them better in anything except situations where direct competition is involved. Which with you being on Ahazi and me being on Chilastra automatically renders impossible and makes you deserving of the not-so-subtle flame inherent in this post.

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Eked wrote:

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Joukahainen wrote:

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Eked wrote:

Just wait til the casual gamers sees how expensive and tedious being a jedi really is.. crystals and pearls dont grow on trees and they decay faster than michael jackson.

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I'd guess that it's all relative. If they are not power grinding they won't level as fast, but they also won't go through crystals and pearls as fast. I consider myself in between a power gamer and a casual gamer. But, crystals aren't really that hard to come by. Maybe the very good ones are... But, once again, some people won't be bothered by not having all premium stuff.

Power gamers have this illusion that casual gamers don't have access to the same content that they do. This isn't the case. It just takes them a bit longer to get to the same level.

Message Edited by Joukahainen on 12-01-2004 10:57 AM

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This is true.. but they will more than likely shelve their jedi after either they die too many times from bh's and get in a deep fxp hole or get tired of only doing 150dam on low level mobs.. of all the casual jedis i know not one is on his jedi more than a couple times of week and they regret the grind they went through for it.

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But casual players may not die so much from BH because they will play smart and not be on the terminals so much. Also, their less frequent times online gives BH less time to hunt them, so Jedi who are online more will be hunted more. Finally, the Jedi grind does not concern me. I'm grinding to Jedi so I can play a Jedi and not grind. It's the character I want, not the power. As for doing 150 dam on low level mobs, as a casual player, we spent more time doing that working up our original characters anyway, so we're used to it.

EDIT: Anyone notice a trend? Powergamers say how much casual players will hate Jedi because of the long grind, the difficulty, and such, while casual players usually say they want a Jedi to PLAY a Jedi?

Message Edited by DRWolfe on 12-01-2004 01:24 PM

I guess what should happen is when you start playing the game, if you play more than 50 hours a week you should be given a Jedi, since you deserve it more and will be able to play it better than someone that plays 20 hours a week. In fact if you play less than 50 hours a week you should just go buy KOTOR and Jedi Academy and play those games by ourselves, because you just don't deserve to play in the MMORPG worlds. Go find something to do where you don't bother the power gamers and get in the way of their content. I mean if you play less than 50 hours a week all you are really doing is lagging the server when you are on. You don't contribute to the game in anyway. The only people who do are people that hologround out 32 professions! Those people are the best and should be rewarded by SOE. What you have a life outside of a video game? Well go get a game to play by yourself!!! In fact it is probably just best if you step away from the computer before you hurt yourself. You probably can't even type better than someone who plays 50 hours a week!!

/sarcasm off...


I am not trying to flame anyone, but listen if you think you are better than someone because you play more hours a week than someone, your wrong.

If this game starts catering only to powergamers and all of the casual gamers are left with no content they will leave, and the game will die. Powergamers tend to jump from one new game to the next. They may come back to one game or another but as new games come out they jump all over them. Leaving the old game behind with the casual players left. I have played many online role playing games and have seen it happen. DAOC came out and the game I was playing lost over half of its players, you know who was left? The casual gamer that was their to roleplay and slowly build up their characters.


Also endgame is word that should never be used with a RPG. That is the point there is no end game. There is just what you decide to do after you have created your ultra-I-can-own-everyone character. Then what? You PvP for a while get bored with the game and move on to the next game.

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Rhysen wrote:

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Zahrin wrote:

I spend more time than you, play better, and know the game better. Of all of these, playing the most, sadly enough, is the most important factor in an MMO. Simple fact. Maybe the analogy was poor, but it illustrates why time invested is so important. You spend more time, you get more rewards. I camp Axkva Mihn more than you do, I get more shot at loot. I spend more time killing Krayts than you do, I get more pearls. You spend more time RP'ing...I guess...you entertain yourself...but you're going to lose in PvP to me, which IS the end-game, whether you like it or not.

Read back to the original Jedi archives...it was said a few times that Roleplayers would be discouraged with the life of a Jedi and would not do well.

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You play better than me?

1. How would you know that with me being on Chilastra and you being on Ahazi?


2. Even if the two of us were on the same server, what would be the criteria to determine who 'plays better' than the other?


3. What in the Hell do you know about the game that isn't being made readily availible to anyone with displaying real intelligence and reviewing the tons of information readily availible to anyone via the forums. Including people not playing SWG.

If you want to make comparisons based on time investment, fine. You spend3-6 hourshitting the same key repetively to receive a text message food pellet pat on the back. I spend3-6 hours withmy girlfriend doing things the board filters and mods won't let me describe to receivea nice,pleasantly exhausted feeling, a satisfied smile on my face and a 10.0 for Originality from the judges.

Sorry bub, only in a game can you believe you are better than that. Everywhere elseIR T3H Winneh!

You seriously need to both grow up and reevaluate priorities. Only a seriously delusional person would believe that their advancement in a game makes them better in anything except situations where direct competition is involved. Which with you being on Ahazi and me being on Chilastra automatically renders impossible and makes you deserving of the not-so-subtle flame inherent in this post.

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Dont take it personally but Im willing to bet he is better, he could probably kill krayts faster, pvp better, sell more high end loot, make more money faster, etc.... There will always be someone better than you, just learn to live with it.

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Zahrin wrote:

Unless you guys can show me what RP content there is in SWG, I suggest you just chill and realize that the only content after you reach the end is PvP. That's it. And yes, powergamers deserve it more than you do and are just plain better. Not an insult, just facts.

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Puhhhhlease. Get over yourself mate. "Better" a bit subjective.

See here again you dont get it.PvP maybe yourend game, and if it is your a supreme chump for playing this particular game because it has about the worst PvP system in any pvp mmog Ive played.

Point is that there is no endgame. Its an MMOG, its an expansive persistant and evolving universe. See you and your powergamer mates just dont get it, there is no end in an MMOG. So go off and kill your kryats and play your little duels and enjoy the pitifiul pvp system for what its worth but please dont try to patronize us, as far as pure game players go were in an entirely different class than you and your sort.

-Gooney

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DRWolfe wrote:

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Eked wrote:

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Joukahainen wrote:

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Eked wrote:

Just wait til the casual gamers sees how expensive and tedious being a jedi really is.. crystals and pearls dont grow on trees and they decay faster than michael jackson.

---

I'd guess that it's all relative. If they are not power grinding they won't level as fast, but they also won't go through crystals and pearls as fast. I consider myself in between a power gamer and a casual gamer. But, crystals aren't really that hard to come by. Maybe the very good ones are... But, once again, some people won't be bothered by not having all premium stuff.

Power gamers have this illusion that casual gamers don't have access to the same content that they do. This isn't the case. It just takes them a bit longer to get to the same level.

Message Edited by Joukahainen on 12-01-2004 10:57 AM

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This is true.. but they will more than likely shelve their jedi after either they die too many times from bh's and get in a deep fxp hole or get tired of only doing 150dam on low level mobs.. of all the casual jedis i know not one is on his jedi more than a couple times of week and they regret the grind they went through for it.

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But casual players may not die so much from BH because they will play smart and not be on the terminals so much. Also, their less frequent times online gives BH less time to hunt them, so Jedi who are online more will be hunted more. Finally, the Jedi grind does not concern me. I'm grinding to Jedi so I can play a Jedi and not grind. It's the character I want, not the power. As for doing 150 dam on low level mobs, as a casual player, we spent more time doing that working up our original characters anyway, so we're used to it.

EDIT: Anyone notice a trend? Powergamers say how much casual players will hate Jedi because of the long grind, the difficulty, and such, while casual players usually say they want a Jedi to PLAY a Jedi?

Message Edited by DRWolfe on 12-01-2004 01:24 PM

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Eked wrote:

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Rhysen wrote:

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Zahrin wrote:

I spend more time than you, play better, and know the game better. Of all of these, playing the most, sadly enough, is the most important factor in an MMO. Simple fact. Maybe the analogy was poor, but it illustrates why time invested is so important. You spend more time, you get more rewards. I camp Axkva Mihn more than you do, I get more shot at loot. I spend more time killing Krayts than you do, I get more pearls. You spend more time RP'ing...I guess...you entertain yourself...but you're going to lose in PvP to me, which IS the end-game, whether you like it or not.

Read back to the original Jedi archives...it was said a few times that Roleplayers would be discouraged with the life of a Jedi and would not do well.

---

You play better than me?

1. How would you know that with me being on Chilastra and you being on Ahazi?
2. Even if the two of us were on the same server, what would be the criteria to determine who 'plays better' than the other?
3. What in the Hell do you know about the game that isn't being made readily availible to anyone with displaying real intelligence and reviewing the tons of information readily availible to anyone via the forums. Including people not playing SWG.

If you want to make comparisons based on time investment, fine. You spend 3-6 hours hitting the same key repetively to receive a text message food pellet pat on the back. I spend 3-6 hours with my girlfriend doing things the board filters and mods won't let me describe to receive a nice, pleasantly exhausted feeling, a satisfied smile on my face and a 10.0 for Originality from the judges.

Sorry bub, only in a game can you believe you are better than that. Everywhere else IR T3H Winneh!

You seriously need to both grow up and reevaluate priorities. Only a seriously delusional person would believe that their advancement in a game makes them better in anything except situations where direct competition is involved. Which with you being on Ahazi and me being on Chilastra automatically renders impossible and makes you deserving of the not-so-subtle flame inherent in this post.

---

Dont take it personally but Im willing to bet he is better, he could probably kill krayts faster, pvp better, sell more high end loot, make more money faster, etc.... There will always be someone better than you, just learn to live with it.

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Sorry, I've played since Day 1 and know the tricks as well, so no he isn't better. More time online gives him more loot, money, etc, but that is no measure of greatness. My question is, can he spend more than 2 seconds in-character, in fact is his character more than just a "toon"? Does he have a good written Bio for his character? Can he make a new player's first experience in-game something to remember by RPing through a scenario with him? I have done all these things, and this is the mark of greatness in a ROLE PLAYING GAME!

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DRWolfe wrote:

---

Eked wrote:

---

Rhysen wrote:

---

Zahrin wrote:

I spend more time than you, play better, and know the game better. Of all of these, playing the most, sadly enough, is the most important factor in an MMO. Simple fact. Maybe the analogy was poor, but it illustrates why time invested is so important. You spend more time, you get more rewards. I camp Axkva Mihn more than you do, I get more shot at loot. I spend more time killing Krayts than you do, I get more pearls. You spend more time RP'ing...I guess...you entertain yourself...but you're going to lose in PvP to me, which IS the end-game, whether you like it or not.

Read back to the original Jedi archives...it was said a few times that Roleplayers would be discouraged with the life of a Jedi and would not do well.

---

You play better than me?

1. How would you know that with me being on Chilastra and you being on Ahazi?


2. Even if the two of us were on the same server, what would be the criteria to determine who 'plays better' than the other?


3. What in the Hell do you know about the game that isn't being made readily availible to anyone with displaying real intelligence and reviewing the tons of information readily availible to anyone via the forums. Including people not playing SWG.

If you want to make comparisons based on time investment, fine. You spend 3-6 hours hitting the same key repetively to receive a text message food pellet pat on the back. I spend 3-6 hours with my girlfriend doing things the board filters and mods won't let me describe to receive a nice, pleasantly exhausted feeling, a satisfied smile on my face and a 10.0 for Originality from the judges.

Sorry bub, only in a game can you believe you are better than that. Everywhere else IR T3H Winneh!

You seriously need to both grow up and reevaluate priorities. Only a seriously delusional person would believe that their advancement in a game makes them better in anything except situations where direct competition is involved. Which with you being on Ahazi and me being on Chilastra automatically renders impossible and makes you deserving of the not-so-subtle flame inherent in this post.

---

Dont take it personally but Im willing to bet he is better, he could probably kill krayts faster, pvp better, sell more high end loot, make more money faster, etc.... There will always be someone better than you, just learn to live with it.

---

Sorry, I've played since Day 1 and know the tricks as well, so no he isn't better. More time online gives him more loot, money, etc, but that is no measure of greatness. My question is, can he spend more than 2 seconds in-character, in fact is his character more than just a "toon"? Does he have a good written Bio for his character? Can he make a new player's first experience in-game something to remember by RPing through a scenario with him? I have done all these things, and this is the mark of greatness in a ROLE PLAYING GAME!

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Guess its all subjective, hard to say whos "better" unless you are more clear.... I dunno if I'd go as far as saying RPing or biomakes one better but like I said its all subjective... IMO who has the best weapons, best loot, amount of credits, number of badges and even LEETnessmakes one better... but thats justMHO.

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Gooney wrote:

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Zahrin wrote:

Unless you guys can show me what RP content there is in SWG, I suggest you just chill and realize that the only content after you reach the end is PvP. That's it. And yes, powergamers deserve it more than you do and are just plain better. Not an insult, just facts.

---

Puhhhhlease. Get over yourself mate. "Better" a bit subjective.

See here again you dont get it.PvP maybe yourend game, and if it is your a supreme chump for playing this particular game because it has about the worst PvP system in any pvp mmog Ive played.

Point is that there is no endgame. Its an MMOG, its an expansive persistant and evolving universe. See you and your powergamer mates just dont get it, there is no end in an MMOG. So go off and kill your kryats and play your little duels and enjoy the pitifiul pvp system for what its worth but please dont try to patronize us, as far as pure game players go were in an entirely different class than you and your sort.

-Gooney

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I'm not trying to be egotistical, really. I'm just giving you the simple facts. Don't get me wrong...I'd MUCH rather see quests, some sort of RP element to the Jedi progression, etc. But that has NEVER been a part of SWG. This game is about PvP as far as Jedi goes. There is no RP or questing element to it. If you try to do it yourselves, you are going to find a lack of support from players, and more importantly the Devs. I myself don't mind trying to be 'uber' if you want to call it that, at PvP. I find it a rewarding challenge. That's just me though, but the simple fact is that when you enter the arena of Jedi in SWG, you are basically committing yourself to becoming the best PvP'er if you want to go to the very end of the road.

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DRWolfe wrote:

---

Eked wrote:

---

Rhysen wrote:

---

Zahrin wrote:

I spend more time than you, play better, and know the game better. Of all of these, playing the most, sadly enough, is the most important factor in an MMO. Simple fact. Maybe the analogy was poor, but it illustrates why time invested is so important. You spend more time, you get more rewards. I camp Axkva Mihn more than you do, I get more shot at loot. I spend more time killing Krayts than you do, I get more pearls. You spend more time RP'ing...I guess...you entertain yourself...but you're going to lose in PvP to me, which IS the end-game, whether you like it or not.

Read back to the original Jedi archives...it was said a few times that Roleplayers would be discouraged with the life of a Jedi and would not do well.

---

You play better than me?

1. How would you know that with me being on Chilastra and you being on Ahazi?


2. Even if the two of us were on the same server, what would be the criteria to determine who 'plays better' than the other?


3. What in the Hell do you know about the game that isn't being made readily availible to anyone with displaying real intelligence and reviewing the tons of information readily availible to anyone via the forums. Including people not playing SWG.

If you want to make comparisons based on time investment, fine. You spend 3-6 hours hitting the same key repetively to receive a text message food pellet pat on the back. I spend 3-6 hours with my girlfriend doing things the board filters and mods won't let me describe to receive a nice, pleasantly exhausted feeling, a satisfied smile on my face and a 10.0 for Originality from the judges.

Sorry bub, only in a game can you believe you are better than that. Everywhere else IR T3H Winneh!

You seriously need to both grow up and reevaluate priorities. Only a seriously delusional person would believe that their advancement in a game makes them better in anything except situations where direct competition is involved. Which with you being on Ahazi and me being on Chilastra automatically renders impossible and makes you deserving of the not-so-subtle flame inherent in this post.

---

Dont take it personally but Im willing to bet he is better, he could probably kill krayts faster, pvp better, sell more high end loot, make more money faster, etc.... There will always be someone better than you, just learn to live with it.

---

Sorry, I've played since Day 1 and know the tricks as well, so no he isn't better. More time online gives him more loot, money, etc, but that is no measure of greatness. My question is, can he spend more than 2 seconds in-character, in fact is his character more than just a "toon"? Does he have a good written Bio for his character? Can he make a new player's first experience in-game something to remember by RPing through a scenario with him? I have done all these things, and this is the mark of greatness in a ROLE PLAYING GAME!

---

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Rhysen wrote:

---

Zahrin wrote:

I spend more time than you, play better, and know the game better. Of all of these, playing the most, sadly enough, is the most important factor in an MMO. Simple fact. Maybe the analogy was poor, but it illustrates why time invested is so important. You spend more time, you get more rewards. I camp Axkva Mihn more than you do, I get more shot at loot. I spend more time killing Krayts than you do, I get more pearls. You spend more time RP'ing...I guess...you entertain yourself...but you're going to lose in PvP to me, which IS the end-game, whether you like it or not.

Read back to the original Jedi archives...it was said a few times that Roleplayers would be discouraged with the life of a Jedi and would not do well.

---

You play better than me?

1. How would you know that with me being on Chilastra and you being on Ahazi?


2. Even if the two of us were on the same server, what would be the criteria to determine who 'plays better' than the other?


3. What in the Hell do you know about the game that isn't being made readily availible to anyone with displaying real intelligence and reviewing the tons of information readily availible to anyone via the forums. Including people not playing SWG.

If you want to make comparisons based on time investment, fine. You spend3-6 hourshitting the same key repetively to receive a text message food pellet pat on the back. I spend3-6 hours withmy girlfriend doing things the board filters and mods won't let me describe to receivea nice,pleasantly exhausted feeling, a satisfied smile on my face and a 10.0 for Originality from the judges.

Sorry bub, only in a game can you believe you are better than that. Everywhere elseIR T3H Winneh!

You seriously need to both grow up and reevaluate priorities. Only a seriously delusional person would believe that their advancement in a game makes them better in anything except situations where direct competition is involved. Which with you being on Ahazi and me being on Chilastra automatically renders impossible and makes you deserving of the not-so-subtle flame inherent in this post.

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BTW...wtg on the rl personal insults...what's that about? I have a job and go to school, but I still have plenty of time to game. So now we're turning this into 'I'm a better person in life than you are!!!!' Wow...get a grip. I'm giving you facts...powergamers play more and get better equipment/loot, and therefore are better than you. That's just how MMO's are, whether you like it or not. If you want to be better than someone with skill, go play CS or Halo.

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DRWolfe wrote:

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Eked wrote:

Guess its all subjective, hard to say whos "better" unless you are more clear.... I dunno if I'd go as far as saying RPing or bio makes one better but like I said its all subjective... IMO who has the best weapons, best loot, amount of credits, number of badges and even LEETness makes one better... but thats just MHO.

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Definitely a difference of opinion. My original character is a Triple Master - MSmuggler/MPistoleer/TKM, has every badge obtainable, best weapons for my professions, a large house full of stuff, millions of credits, plus a full written Bio and RPd a nice Smuggling scenario for a new player who was asking for credits for travel so he could get where he was going, and get a hefty tip for his "work", all without just handing over credits and/or calling him "noob", for which I got RP fun and the pleasure of making his first experience in-game very enjoyable (which he told me).

My second character is a MFencer/TKM who's sole purpose is to become a Jedi. I still role-play this character, though I haven't put up his Bio or wear tags because he is a Jedi student in hiding. My RP suffers with this character because all I have time for is grinding, but it will improve once I have reached my goal. He also has armor, weapons, badges, credits, etc.

I am NOT "LEET".

So, as a casual gamer who plays maybe 10 hours a week on average, I meet your criteria for "better", so I guess time doesn't matter, does it, casual gamers can be just as "good" as powergamers. Plus I also work to be a good Role Player, which meets my criteria for being "better". If more people did this, the game would be so much more than it is.

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You sound pretty LEET to me.. inthe pve sense anyway.