Jump To Lightspeed Archive

Who said casual players can't pvp? RPG are about the journey not the end. Even old pencil and paper d&d was about building your character. If your only goal is to get a great character that can beat anything or anyone in game you will be bored when you get there.

I have a job, and raise two kids on my own, so I am limited by life (not by choice) as to when I get to play. This is not a complaint just a fact of life.

Beyond a shadow of a doubt the power gamer will get the experience quicker for their grind, will get their jedi ground out to their 'final' template quicker, as they should since they play more. However, the casual gamer deserves to be able to get a Jedi too. Yes it will take the casual gamer longer, as it should, since as you most elequently put it, you work "harder" at it. I will also submit to you that a casual gamer will play his/her Jedi longer than a power gamer. Power gamers will get bored with a jedi quicker once they finished template, except to take it out to PvP once in a while.

Why does everything in this game have to be someone v someone. Combatants vs Crafters (argue all the time) Power gamers vs Casual Players (argue all the time). Jedi vs Bounty Hunters (at least this makes sence since they are pitted against each other in game). How about this...

IT IS A GAME! Everyone who plays this game PAYS to play this game. Therefore, everyone who plays has a right to have fun playing this game in whatever style they want to play it in.

I am sick and tired of the same canned responce if you don't like it go play KOTOR or Jedi Academy or blah, blah, blah. I bought the game same as you did, I pay my monthly fee the same as you do, and have every right to play a Jedi just the same as you do.

---

YuthuraMan wrote:

if the current jedi of the game r jerks and mercenarys, thats why they re real ppl with power in their hands, everyone would do the same. is wrong but its a human condition. u ll never see a wise , peace loving master jedi in SWG.

---

Wrong. How would you know how other people will play their jedi. Obviously the type of jedi your talking about here won't exist for a very long time because of the type of player the system is geared for. "Most" of the people who would really like to "roleplay" a jedi aren't power gamers. Notice I say "most". There are some out there that do. Unfortunately those are the people who you hardly ever see. The l33t players who just want the "power in their hands" are the ones who show off in town and duel people.

I personally would like to be the jedi who mysteriously appears to assist another person in their time of need. I want to play a light jedi. I don't have much desire to run around showing off my saber or challenge people to duels. It's unfortunate that the only way I can become a jedi is by slaughting thousands of creatures. I'd almost prefer that there was a weekly "jedi quest" that didn't require mass destruction. Just a jedi quest that I have to accomplish once a week for the desired period of time (maybe 3 - 6 months). Once I completed all the quests for this period of time, I would unlock. Why the endless combat grind? There's no point to it. Yes I'm doing it, but It's going to take me a very long time because I want to have fun playing this game.

Another point is the means of becoming a Master Jedi? Why should a jedi have to kill more jedi than someone else to become a master? I don't see combat as the main purpose of a jedi. Even in the movies someone said (I think it was Mace Windu) something to the effect that they were peace keepers, not soldiers.

*edit*
Now that I think about it... They SHOULD make the quickest/easiest way to become a dark jedi include the massive slaughter of creatures. Give light jedi a different route that would be longer and require more patience. The light jedi path should be one of wisdom and avoiding conflict if possible. Good luck with that though. It seems that MMORPG's aren't possible of creating a system like this.

Message Edited by Joukahainen on 12-01-2004 10:12 AM

---

murphy7 wrote:

I can only agree with one sentiment in this post which is that life is not in fact fair. That you have 5 hours a day available and the interest to devote it to a game where others do not is unfortunate. Were this a fair system, we would be paying for hours logged into the game each month, and those of you with the time and interest to be tying up server resources wouldn't appreciate this. Say, for instance (and nostalgia) that game cost $0.25 per hour played. Your 140 hour month in game would cost you 35.00 dollars for that month, whereas someone who only had 5 hours a week to play, would be paying $5.00 for their month.

Another way to look at it, and one that is much closer to the SOE line of thought, is say it costs them 0.10 cents an hour per person playing to run and maintain this game (content generation, CSRs, development of expansions, as well as bandwidth and server maintennance, wages, etc.). You as the powergamer in this example cost them 14.00 dollars a month, so depending on your subscription they profit only a dollar a month on you or actually operate at cost to provide your entertainment. The casual gamer profitsSOE as much as 10.00 dollars per month per person.

The sad fact of the matter is that the powergamer schedule dictates the advancement path more than that of the casual gamer. It's not that it would be bad if 250 hours of in game work were what it took to make Jedi initiate, for the casual gamer in this example that wouldbe a years investment. It's that a powergamer could and would burn through that in a month or two, in some extreme cases, less, and that isn't acceptable to SOE.

Applying some sense of virtue to the fact you have the time to play the game is as silly as applying a virtue to the effective cost of the investment for the casual player. Casual players are simply going to get less for what they pay for, and on top of that get to listen to the insolent indolent belittle them for it.

Edit: fixed some grammatical and spelling errors.

Message Edited by murphy7 on 12-01-2004 08:25 AM

---

Message Edited by Casmaran on 12-01-2004 12:29 PM

---

Tathizar wrote:

Although i realize this is a harsh thing to say... it is true. In regards to the post about 30:1 ratio, I agree with it and think that jedi should be a long and painful grind. many say that this makes it impossible for some players to get jedi... thats the idea, not everyone is supposed to have one it is supposed to be special.

Like it has been stated before, i would hate to see 50 jedi running around on a server that are all casual players. Some say that there are already tons of jedi and that this way to unlock is easier than the old way. Now that depends. Many people are turned off by the grind and don't bother when they get the numbers on how long it would take. For others, it motivates them, that there is an end in sight and they have an idea of how far they are.

Now before everyone flames and posts that they hate me keep in mind that I am not a jedi yet (will be next phase), and that I speak only from my opinion. Yes it does suck for more casual players that want a jedi.. but honestly the jedi grind is much longer and more boring than this one(from what i have heard from multiple friends), so jedi isn't as beautified as it appears to be. I want to hear the points of others though so let it begin! Let me remind everyone that this is not a flame and it is just a conversation as to unlocking jedi... please keep flames at a minimum.

---

---

Eked wrote:

Just wait til the casual gamers sees how expensive and tedious being a jedi really is.. crystals and pearls dont grow on trees and they decay faster than michael jackson.

---

---

Eked wrote:

Just wait til the casual gamers sees how expensive and tedious being a jedi really is.. crystals and pearls dont grow on trees and they decay faster than michael jackson.

---

I'd guess that it's all relative. If they are not power grinding they won't level as fast, but they also won't go through crystals and pearls as fast. I consider myself in between a power gamer and a casual gamer. But, crystals aren't really that hard to come by. Maybe the very good ones are... But, once again, some people won't be bothered by not having all premium stuff.

Power gamers have this illusion that casual gamers don't have access to the same content that they do. This isn't the case. It just takes them a bit longer to get to the same level.

Message Edited by Joukahainen on 12-01-2004 10:57 AM

---

Rhysen wrote:

---

Zahrin wrote:

Despite what anyone in this thread is saying about how powergamers should not deserve Jedi any more than a casual player, that's a lie. If I play 5 hours every day, and you only play 1, then yes I deserve Jedi more. If I work harder in school than some random in the back who never studies, then I get paid more than when he gets his new position at McDonald's. It's a time investment issue. I spend more time than you do, so I'm rewarded. If you can't invest the time, guess what...too bad. That's just how life is. Furthermore, if you want to 'roleplay a Jedi,' go play KotoR or something. You'll be able to play when you like, do what you want, etc. You're going to PvP in SWG whether you like it or not, and there's not much room for roleplaying. I'm not saying that's a good thing, but that's just the simple truth of how SWG is. I don't mind doing the occassional casual roleplaying or trying to play my character out, but when it comes down to it, I'm there to PvP with my Jedi and be as successful as I can. Just because your end goal isn't the same and requires less effort doesn't mean that your goal should offer the same rewards as mine.

---

Boy, are they twisting your head up in school. Studying more than someone else or doing 5 times the homework of someone else didn't necessarily make you a better student (at least not when I went through HS/College). The quality of the student had little to do with the amount of work he did and a lot to do with the quality of the work he was capable of doing. There were plenty of people in my classes that had to study twice as hard and do plenty of extra work simply to come close to the grades I had. You want to come into my office and do 5 times the work? I'll gladly work you to death because I can being management level. The amount of work I did had an effect on me heading up customer support but far more important was the quality of the work I was capable of producing.

Or to put it into terms that relate to this game, sure you can invest 5x as many hours as me or someone else throwing grenades at Baz Nitches on Dathomir. It doesn't make you a better player in the slightest. And only the system that rewards investing more time into the game doing mindlessly repetitive things makes you believe you deserve something more than another person.Just because you made Jedi 6 months faster than another player doesn't mean that player won't cut you apart when you go to lock sabers with him. Your ability to waste more time doesn't prove you're a better PvPer nor will it make you one.

If anything, to me at least, your attitude makes me believe if your ambition were represented by a human being, it'd be able to limbo under an ant. Your goal is to hit the "1" key more times per hour and believe that's worthy of a reward? You're lauding the ability to endure meaningless tedium and elevating it to something that should be admired. I don't know about in the Ahazi galaxy but in the galaxy commonly refered to as the Milky Way, that type of attitude is rarely admired and often laughed at.

---

I spend more time than you, play better, and know the game better. Of all of these, playing the most, sadly enough, is the most important factor in an MMO. Simple fact. Maybe the analogy was poor, but it illustrates why time invested is so important. You spend more time, you get more rewards. I camp Axkva Mihn more than you do, I get more shot at loot. I spend more time killing Krayts than you do, I get more pearls. You spend more time RP'ing...I guess...you entertain yourself...but you're going to lose in PvP to me, which IS the end-game, whether you like it or not.

Read back to the original Jedi archives...it was said a few times that Roleplayers would be discouraged with the life of a Jedi and would not do well.

---

Joukahainen wrote:

---

Eked wrote:

Just wait til the casual gamers sees how expensive and tedious being a jedi really is.. crystals and pearls dont grow on trees and they decay faster than michael jackson.

---

I'd guess that it's all relative. If they are not power grinding they won't level as fast, but they also won't go through crystals and pearls as fast. I consider myself in between a power gamer and a casual gamer. But, crystals aren't really that hard to come by. Maybe the very good ones are... But, once again, some people won't be bothered by not having all premium stuff.

Power gamers have this illusion that casual gamers don't have access to the same content that they do. This isn't the case. It just takes them a bit longer to get to the same level.

Message Edited by Joukahainen on 12-01-2004 10:57 AM

---

This is true.. but they will more than likely shelve their jedi after either they die too many times from bh's and get in a deepfxp hole or get tired of only doing 150dam on low level mobs.. of all the casual jedis i know not one is on his jedi more than a couple times of week and they regret the grind they went through for it.

---

Eked wrote:

---

Joukahainen wrote:

---

Eked wrote:

Just wait til the casual gamers sees how expensive and tedious being a jedi really is.. crystals and pearls dont grow on trees and they decay faster than michael jackson.

---

I'd guess that it's all relative. If they are not power grinding they won't level as fast, but they also won't go through crystals and pearls as fast. I consider myself in between a power gamer and a casual gamer. But, crystals aren't really that hard to come by. Maybe the very good ones are... But, once again, some people won't be bothered by not having all premium stuff.

Power gamers have this illusion that casual gamers don't have access to the same content that they do. This isn't the case. It just takes them a bit longer to get to the same level.

Message Edited by Joukahainen on 12-01-2004 10:57 AM

---

This is true.. but they will more than likely shelve their jedi after either they die too many times from bh's and get in a deepfxp hole or get tired of only doing 150dam on low level mobs.. of all the casual jedis i know not one is on his jedi more than a couple times of week and they regret the grind they went through for it.

---

---

Eked wrote:

---

Joukahainen wrote:

---

Eked wrote:

Just wait til the casual gamers sees how expensive and tedious being a jedi really is.. crystals and pearls dont grow on trees and they decay faster than michael jackson.

---

I'd guess that it's all relative. If they are not power grinding they won't level as fast, but they also won't go through crystals and pearls as fast. I consider myself in between a power gamer and a casual gamer. But, crystals aren't really that hard to come by. Maybe the very good ones are... But, once again, some people won't be bothered by not having all premium stuff.

Power gamers have this illusion that casual gamers don't have access to the same content that they do. This isn't the case. It just takes them a bit longer to get to the same level.

Message Edited by Joukahainen on 12-01-2004 10:57 AM

---

This is true.. but they will more than likely shelve their jedi after either they die too many times from bh's and get in a deepfxp hole or get tired of only doing 150dam on low level mobs.. of all the casual jedis i know not one is on his jedi more than a couple times of week and they regret the grind they went through for it.

---

icantwaittelleveryoneisjedi

---

Zahrin wrote:

Unless you guys can show me what RP content there is in SWG, I suggest you just chill and realize that the only content after you reach the end is PvP. That's it. And yes, powergamers deserve it more than you do and are just plain better. Not an insult, just facts.

---

Wrong 100%.

RP content is made by the players in the environment provided. Themeparks, missions, quests, whatever are not RP, they're things provided in-game by the Devs to give people with no imagination something to do. This is a MMORolePlayingGame.

I don't care how many times you say it, you are not better than me because you play more than me. Period.

Powergamers deserve nothing more unless they pay more, and the last time I checked, everyone pays the same to play this game.