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Thread: Concerning the Pro's of Forced PvP Mastership......
Vicotnik
Wed Oct 27, 2004 1:21 pm
#66
Phienyx wrote:
I used to be against PvP to Master, but then this will eliminate players who like to perp like they've got flying skills, but have yet to taste battle against a real, intelligent player. I think that being labeled as a Master/Ace should be an honorreserved for those that have actually earned the titleagainst other players (the MMO part of the game and all.....).
But if that would happen to be the point of these master missions, why isn't the mission goals to actually participate in PVP? As it is now, all you do is you make yourself a PVP target (not an attacker) during the master mission. I would agree on that Master/Ace should be an honor reserved for people who has fought other people, but SWG is a game based on PVE and PVP, so it doesn't quite work. Especially not when all PVP is supposedly voluntary and where neutrality actuallymeans immunity (which it doesn't in JTL, by the way). But had it been a game where PVP was mandatory. Sure.
In all honesty, I believe the devs went with these missions because they couldn't figure out another way to make the master missions take long enough/be hard enough with pure PVE. Completely moronic mission design at any rate.
Eldana
Wed Oct 27, 2004 1:51 pm
#67
Phienyx wrote:
I used to be against PvP to Master, but then this will eliminate players who like to perp like they've got flying skills, but have yet to taste battle against a real, intelligent player. I think that being labeled as a Master/Ace should be an honorreserved for those that have actually earned the titleagainst other players (the MMO part of the game and all.....).
I'm so tired of people whining about "I shouldn't be forced to do this and I shouldn't be forced to do that." No matter what you do or don't do, there will be limitations and prerequesites for certain benefits. The choice is up to you to do what it takes to get there or not. If you chose not to PVP you don't get master. That's your choice. That's almost as dumb as saying that if in battle, I do everything to avoid combat, I should get the same benefits (medals/recognition)as the soldiers who risked their lives in a fashion that was above and beyond the call of duty. I know, I know, this is a game.....but there are still limits, guidelines and prerequisites that must be adhered to, otherwise the game becomes dull and pointless, because no matter how well or bad you do or how hard or little you work at it, you'll just end up with the same crap as everyone else. Removing any sense of any significant accomplishment is the quickest way to kill any excitement in a game.
Rofl "real, intelligent player". Most out there will be dorks that only want to make your life miserable.
What the heck is wrong with you guys?
It seems to me like you are junkies that run around on the streets jumping everyone and force your drugs into them.
I'm tired of guys like you whining about "these guys don't want to be killed by us wile they try to achieve something".
Some of you seem to think MM is only killing each other.
Reiella
Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:21 pm
#68
Hmm, doesn't seem to take pvp to get a multipassenger ship...
Not sure how much is required for getting the Privateer top tier, but even ignoring that... Just stay around for 6 monthes and claim your SoroSuub, no?
Not sure how much is required for getting the Privateer top tier, but even ignoring that... Just stay around for 6 monthes and claim your SoroSuub, no?
Slarus
Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:22 pm
#69
I used to be against PvP to Master, but then this will eliminate players who like to perp like they've got flying skills, but have yet to taste battle against a real, intelligent player. I think that being labeled as a Master/Ace should be an honorreserved for those that have actually earned the titleagainst other players (the MMO part of the game and all.....).
I'm so tired of people whining about "I shouldn't be forced to do this and I shouldn't be forced to do that." No matter what you do or don't do, there will be limitations and prerequesites for certain benefits. The choice is up to you to do what it takes to get there or not. If you chose not to PVP you don't get master. That's your choice. That's almost as dumb as saying that if in battle, I do everything to avoid combat, I should get the same benefits (medals/recognition)as the soldiers who risked their lives in a fashion that was above and beyond the call of duty. I know, I know, this is a game.....but there are still limits, guidelines and prerequisites that must be adhered to, otherwise the game becomes dull and pointless, because no matter how well or bad you do or how hard or little you work at it, you'll just end up with the same crap as everyone else. Removing any sense of any significant accomplishment is the quickest way to kill any excitement in a game.
The goal of most is to be able to pilot a multi-player ship, not to be an Ace pilot or PvP champ, it's not whining in a game that states CONSENTUAL PVP to not have consentual PvP, that is the ONLY point. It isn't about Jedi, it isn't about grouping or not, it isn't about being an Ace pilot (Which only means shot down 5 enemy craft) it is about consentual PvP, THAT'S IT, don't post that PvP is ok, or we are whining or anything like it, the fact is the game sold as consentual PvP is not doing that, there is no question about that. It is about the fact that more and more non-consentual PvP is being added each time they do something big.
Eldana
Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:25 pm
#70
Reiella wrote:
Hmm, doesn't seem to take pvp to get a multipassenger ship...
Not sure how much is required for getting the Privateer top tier, but even ignoring that... Just stay around for 6 monthes and claim your SoroSuub, no?
Privateer also needs to do the mission in Kessel.
And the Sorosuub is what everyone calls a "party barge".
Reiella
Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:34 pm
#71
Eldana wrote:
Reiella wrote:
Hmm, doesn't seem to take pvp to get a multipassenger ship...
Not sure how much is required for getting the Privateer top tier, but even ignoring that... Just stay around for 6 monthes and claim your SoroSuub, no?Privateer also needs to do the mission in Kessel.And the Sorosuub is what everyone calls a "party barge".
So the problem isn't with 'finally' getting multiplayer ships after a pvp event, it's with getting multiplayer ships that are combat-effective?
Seems sorta similar to Faction Bases requiring Faction Points to purchase to me, but I'm odd like that. And while yes, there are ways to get FP without opening yourself up to PVP they either take a horrendous amount of time (Delivery Missions), involve the help of another (Delegate), or a class feature (Smuggler). Just two obtains really removed (the insanely long Delivery Option, and the class feature option), since you can always ask someone else to help escort you while you do the mission.
Vicotnik
Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:54 pm
#72
Reiella wrote:
So the problem isn't with 'finally' getting multiplayer ships after a pvp event, it's with getting multiplayer ships that are combat-effective?
Seems sorta similar to Faction Bases requiring Faction Points to purchase to me, but I'm odd like that. And while yes, there are ways to get FP without opening yourself up to PVP they either take a horrendous amount of time (Delivery Missions), involve the help of another (Delegate), or a class feature (Smuggler). Just two obtains really removed (the insanely long Delivery Option, and the class feature option), since you can always ask someone else to help escort you while you do the mission.
There is a huge difference here: Faction bases ARE PVP items, combat capable multipassenger ships are not. In fact, I would go as far to say that MP-ships are PVE objects, as they are fairly useless in PVP. (Three fighterpilots will do much, much better in PVP than 1 pilot and two gunners in a MP ship).
Slarus
Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:57 pm
#73
There is a huge difference here: Faction bases ARE PVP items, combat capable multipassenger ships are not. In fact, I would go as far to say that MP-ships are PVE objects, as they are fairly useless in PVP. (Three fighterpilots will do much, much better in PVP than 1 pilot and two gunners in a MP ship).
Yet another reason PvP in the Master mission is stupid. MP ships are not very good in PvP, but you have come under fire in PvP space to get a ship you won't use in future PvP.
Way to go SOE. What next giving Suncrushers to BHs so they can kill all the Jedi at the same time for BH Piloting novice, since there isn't much they have to do anyway?
Naquiel
Wed Oct 27, 2004 3:17 pm
#74
I dont know if its stupid to putting master level in a PVP zone. it worked out fine in DAOC and a handfull of other online games.
The thing is having it pvp will mean you will have to group with ppl to get it finished, and if your just going to master pilot skills without pvp then whats to play after. PVP is a way to see how good you are, and the devs have thrown down the gauntlet of challenge to see if you can do it.
But on the other end, ppl want to control as much as they can. They dont want to die because they think it will cost to much troble or time. PPL think violance is bad no matter(even though they will be killing lots of npc's)and if there hurt by another player its an attack on themselves. Well this is just a game, a place to have fun and learn. There is nothing to pvp except you just chasing a plyer controled character. The only griefing that will happen is if you let it happen. So lets see what ppl will consider a grief. Greifing is when a player singles out a person to constantly kill or harass. Well when in a pvp zone its almost a freeforall, so anyone can die so there is no griefing, it will all depend on how good your skills are.
And did anyone forget you have to be forced into pvp for jedi. so what is the difference, you want the goal of completeing parts of the game you will have to accept the dev challange.
Vicotnik
Wed Oct 27, 2004 3:21 pm
#75
Naquiel wrote:
And did anyone forget you have to be forced into pvp for jedi. so what is the difference, you want the goal of completeing parts of the game you will have to accept the dev challange.
The three pilot professions are the core of JTL. Jedi are not the core of SWG.
Having the forced PVP for the master box in the pilot profession would be similar to having the same requirement for ALL combat professions in the ground game.
Slarus
Wed Oct 27, 2004 3:26 pm
#76
I dont know if its stupid to putting master level in a PVP zone. it worked out fine in DAOC and a handfull of other online games.
The thing is having it pvp will mean you will have to group with ppl to get it finished, and if your just going to master pilot skills without pvp then whats to play after. PVP is a way to see how good you are, and the devs have thrown down the gauntlet of challenge to see if you can do it.
Do you not read or are you just plain ignorant. YOU HAVE TO GROUP TO FINISH IT REGARDLESS OF THE PVP OR NOT. THE MISSION IS NOT SOLOABLE.
But on the other end, ppl want to control as much as they can. They dont want to die because they think it will cost to much troble or time. PPL think violance is bad no matter(even though they will be killing lots of npc's)and if there hurt by another player its an attack on themselves. Well this is just a game, a place to have fun and learn. There is nothing to pvp except you just chasing a plyer controled character. The only griefing that will happen is if you let it happen. So lets see what ppl will consider a grief. Greifing is when a player singles out a person to constantly kill or harass. Well when in a pvp zone its almost a freeforall, so anyone can die so there is no griefing, it will all depend on how good your skills are.
And did anyone forget you have to be forced into pvp for jedi. so what is the difference, you want the goal of completeing parts of the game you will have to accept the dev challange.
Griefing is what many players will do to prvent groups from doing the Master quest. And I am totally against ANY forced PvP including Jedi, it is not a challenge it is an economic contest to see who has the best stuff, they are the ones who usually win in PvP, if you can do the PvE stuff you have the basic skills to PvP, what you maybe missiong is the tech gap by wealthy PvPers who out match you.
Most games PvP is who has the best stuff, this will be basically the same, PvP groups doing nothing but griefing Master mission groups, it is wrong it is not consentual it poses not challege other then BUYING the equipment for you and your group to keep up with the Jones' in space.
Kinshi
Wed Oct 27, 2004 3:35 pm
#77
I am not given to taking sides in these kinds of arguments but the anti-PvP crowd sure sounds like they need cheese with their whine.
There is only so much you can do w/ PvE content and its still a human versus an AI and scripted (at that point its pattern recognition), and as Kasparov has proven it takes a helluva big computer to outwit a human.
The best challenge a human can face is from another human. PvP (JTL style as I acknowledge the ground game has bad issues) is the top tier of the game. You dont get good playing against AIs, you get truly good when you match wits with another person and the excitement comes from the unpredictable nature of a human opponent.
With JTL, its not all boiled down to macros and buffs. Its the quality of your spacecraft, your in game skill level and how good YOU are on the stick. I suggest if you cannot handle it that you either stay on the public transports or pilot as a privateer.
The warring factions in the GCW dont need people who refuse to fight. Its risk vs reward. You put on that Rebel or Imperial uniform and/or choose to fly their ships, you take the risk associated with that.
There is your answer, dont fly to Deep Space or Kessel and dont fly for the warring factions.
There is only so much you can do w/ PvE content and its still a human versus an AI and scripted (at that point its pattern recognition), and as Kasparov has proven it takes a helluva big computer to outwit a human.
The best challenge a human can face is from another human. PvP (JTL style as I acknowledge the ground game has bad issues) is the top tier of the game. You dont get good playing against AIs, you get truly good when you match wits with another person and the excitement comes from the unpredictable nature of a human opponent.
With JTL, its not all boiled down to macros and buffs. Its the quality of your spacecraft, your in game skill level and how good YOU are on the stick. I suggest if you cannot handle it that you either stay on the public transports or pilot as a privateer.
The warring factions in the GCW dont need people who refuse to fight. Its risk vs reward. You put on that Rebel or Imperial uniform and/or choose to fly their ships, you take the risk associated with that.
There is your answer, dont fly to Deep Space or Kessel and dont fly for the warring factions.
Slarus
Wed Oct 27, 2004 3:42 pm
#78
I am not given to taking sides in these kinds of arguments but the anti-PvP crowd sure sounds like they need cheese with their whine.
There is only so much you can do w/ PvE content and its still a human versus an AI and scripted (at that point its pattern recognition), and as Kasparov has proven it takes a helluva big computer to outwit a human.
The best challenge a human can face is from another human. PvP (JTL style as I acknowledge the ground game has bad issues) is the top tier of the game. You dont get good playing against AIs, you get truly good when you match wits with another person and the excitement comes from the unpredictable nature of a human opponent.
With JTL, its not all boiled down to macros and buffs. Its the quality of your spacecraft, your in game skill level and how good YOU are on the stick. I suggest if you cannot handle it that you either stay on the public transports or pilot as a privateer.
The warring factions in the GCW dont need people who refuse to fight. Its risk vs reward. You put on that Rebel or Imperial uniform and/or choose to fly their ships, you take the risk associated with that.
There is your answer, dont fly to Deep Space or Kessel and dont fly for the warring factions.
There is only so much you can do w/ PvE content and its still a human versus an AI and scripted (at that point its pattern recognition), and as Kasparov has proven it takes a helluva big computer to outwit a human.
The best challenge a human can face is from another human. PvP (JTL style as I acknowledge the ground game has bad issues) is the top tier of the game. You dont get good playing against AIs, you get truly good when you match wits with another person and the excitement comes from the unpredictable nature of a human opponent.
With JTL, its not all boiled down to macros and buffs. Its the quality of your spacecraft, your in game skill level and how good YOU are on the stick. I suggest if you cannot handle it that you either stay on the public transports or pilot as a privateer.
The warring factions in the GCW dont need people who refuse to fight. Its risk vs reward. You put on that Rebel or Imperial uniform and/or choose to fly their ships, you take the risk associated with that.
There is your answer, dont fly to Deep Space or Kessel and dont fly for the warring factions.
Who said it was about skill? I mean really, we should quit whining how about you quit lying. This is about SWG/JTL being advertised as CONSENTUAL PVP, not CONDITIONAL PVP. It's not Skill, it's not soloing, it's not about being afraid, it is about CHOOSING to PvP. Your impling NO ONE will be challenged by PvE content, that's BS and you know it.
Take this example:
You want to drive a car, you go take your written and driving test they give you a drivers licence but tell you that you have to drive a Pinto they said nothing in the office when you took your test. You forced to drive a Pinto to drive, but I guess you don't need to drive do you?
There is no realistic reason to froce PvP on one mission, period plently of folks will be challenged by the PvE content so this is BS.