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Thread: Devs are u saying the falcon didn't have a main gun?

Ke_la
Tue Nov 23, 2004 5:54 pm
#53









DaveG Wrote:








Ke_la wrote:


Ok First off has anyone accually seen Han Fire his turrets from the Pilot's seat?



Well, we have seen the Millenium Falcon shoot at a TIE fighter while everyone on board was in the cockpit, ergo nobody in the turrets.


(Ep 4, ANH).






Ok first off in your own words time index? I looked at the Space sceens in ANH and could not find one where Han shot from the Pilots seat though he was talking about takeing out a TIE he could have ment with his coccution Missils.

***EDIT 2***

With all the post error ...stuff I forgot this part in the Final sceen in ANH befor Luke Blows the Death Star Han is in the Pilots Chair Talking to Luke after the Falcon cleared the TIEs off Luke's tail, however, Chewie is nowhere to be seen and he could have easliy been in the Gun Turret as Han is the Better Pilot of the two.


BTW the "edit 1 markers where added in edit 2 as well.

***End EDIT 2***


as for My time indexes:


***EDIT 1***

in ANH(DVD) - Lucas's Offical Version and ONLY complete one


54:40 - "I made a lot of Special Modifications Myself" - Han Solo (its a HEAVLY modified ship)


55:53 - Han has to stand up and us a termanal Behind the Pilots Chair to Program the Nav Computer he later 1:03:14 has to use the same position on a panal above his head to Cut over to sublight engines. So the devs already removed atleast 1 player position for Playablity(in RotJ they had 4 people runnig the boards in the cockpit. Pilot,Co-Pilot, Navagator(the Nav Comp termnal was infront of him), and (I am guessing) Flight engeer).


in Jedi(DVD)


1:35:13 - Laser Fire is clearly coming from the Top turret and as Lando is Flying though a Cloud of TIEs I would think that this would be the time to Fire a FWD mounted Main gun wouldn't you?


1:40:53 - Lando is lining up on a Tie and a shot blows it up clearly coming from the lower Left of the cockpit angling to the Top Right exsacly how a shot from the lower turret should traval.


2:02:16 - 2 shots are seen coming from 2 differant ports between the "Forks" of the front of the ship. However they are clearly Missals and not lasers. so there can't be lasers there if there are launch tubes there.


Is this good enough for you guys?


***End Edit 1***


Message Edited by Ke_la on 11-23-2004 05:18 PM

Message Edited by Ke_la on 11-23-2004 05:26 PM




Ke'la Korian, Waylon Korien, Me'na Korien
Ke'la is a Master Rifleman/retireing Ranger and Waylon is an ID/DE
Me'na is the mayor of the City of Obalisic
"Have fun storming the castle". -- Miracle Max
"I knew it I am surrounded by %##@&!$# " -- Dark Helmet
"I am not Dead yet!" -- Guy from Holy Grail

truewildman
Tue Nov 23, 2004 6:02 pm
#54






Ke_la wrote:







DaveG Wrote:








Ke_la wrote:


Ok First off has anyone accually seen Han Fire his turrets from the Pilot's seat?




Well, we have seen the Millenium Falcon shoot at a TIE fighter while everyone on board was in the cockpit, ergo nobody in the turrets.


(Ep 4, ANH).










Yep. In the modified YT-1300. But, alas, we don't get the Falcon at master, we get a Corellian Engineering YT-1300.





Boslo
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Ra'van Crowe
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I'on
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Ke_la
Tue Nov 23, 2004 6:20 pm
#55

ok off topic it took me 20 mins to place/edit my post as it kept getting that D*** Message body HTML error and erasing my post in the Text box can't somebody do something about that?




Ke'la Korian, Waylon Korien, Me'na Korien
Ke'la is a Master Rifleman/retireing Ranger and Waylon is an ID/DE
Me'na is the mayor of the City of Obalisic
"Have fun storming the castle". -- Miracle Max
"I knew it I am surrounded by %##@&!$# " -- Dark Helmet
"I am not Dead yet!" -- Guy from Holy Grail

Ditolus
Tue Nov 23, 2004 6:45 pm
#56

i made this post over a week ago i didnt expect to see it back on the boards. The point i was trying to make is:

does the falcon have a main gun?
if yes was it one of han's or lando's mods?
or do all yt's have them
if it was a mod by han or lando why can't we add one?
lastly if the answer to question 1 is "no" then this discussion is moot. but i dont really think u can get a clear look at the falcon firing in rotj space battle which is the only time i think it might have fired its main gun if it does in fact have one.
RogueCloudwalker
Tue Nov 23, 2004 7:31 pm
#57

Ok, I think many of us need some pointers.


First off, I play alone most of the time. That said, it would be really hard to grab people to hop into my turrets. Now, since the multiplayer ships have poor manueverability, it would be a fair tradeoff to allow the turrets to fire in a forward locked position. The evidence for allowing the ship to fire from the cockpit is enormous. For example, an excerpt from the Courtship of Princess Leia -


Han glanced down at his weapons display. He still had four Arakyd concussion missiles in his launch tubes, but his proton torpedoes were dry. He armed the concussion missiles, took remote control of the dorsal quad blaster cannons, and fired a couple of salvos ahead of the TIE Interceptor, giving just enough lead.The little grey ship hit the blasts and flared into oblivion...


"Whos up there firing the blaster cannons?" Han asked. "Luke," Leia said, and Han looked down the hallway, confused. You could fire the blasters from the cockpit, but only with greatly reduced accuracy...


Then of course, the fact that you could lock the turrets into a forward firing position in any variant of the YT-1300 in X-Wing Alliance was possible. As well, since Han was about to blow up that TIE Fighter in Episode IV with them, then the vast amount of evidence supports the proposition that the YT-1300 and multiplayer ships in general should be able to fire from the cockpit with just a single passenger - the pilot.


The turrets would still be most effective if they could rotate with a player manning them. However, since the turrets would be locked forward, the pilot would have to manuever to attack the target, which is unlikely giving that you are trying to handle a bus or a flying brick. Thats a worthy tradeoff. Thats why I would like to lock the turrets forward and be able to fire them from the pilot seat.


Did I mention that this is my favorite ship? I would hate to not be able to use it due to not having enough available friends for missions...



Captain Trevick Cloudwalker of the YT-1300 "Corellia Star"

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DaveG
Tue Nov 23, 2004 7:44 pm
#58






RogueCloudwalker wrote:
...



Completely agree with everything you said.




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Correcting the timeline, one Jedi at a time.

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I didn't use buffs or uber armour, so why did the combat revamp have to spoil my game?
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Ke_la
Tue Nov 23, 2004 7:47 pm
#59

Ok if you bring the EU into it there are a number of ocations where the Falcon was called Inefficent because it took atleast 4 crewmembers to fly properly Pilot,Co-pilot, and 2 gunners. Oh and lets not forget the 2 positions behind the Pilots seat for the Navigator and I can only guess Flight Engeeneer.


An why are you AGAIN compairing a Massivly Multi-Player game to SINGLE player games and it don't give me that XvT and X-wing Alliance where Multi-Player because you could NOT have the other Players board your ship and fire your guns for you.


Also, in nearly EVERY case Han choose to run instead of Fight if it was at all Possable.




Ke'la Korian, Waylon Korien, Me'na Korien
Ke'la is a Master Rifleman/retireing Ranger and Waylon is an ID/DE
Me'na is the mayor of the City of Obalisic
"Have fun storming the castle". -- Miracle Max
"I knew it I am surrounded by %##@&!$# " -- Dark Helmet
"I am not Dead yet!" -- Guy from Holy Grail

DaveG
Tue Nov 23, 2004 8:03 pm
#60




Ke_la wrote:

Ok if you bring the EU into it there are a number of ocations where the Falcon was called Inefficent because it took atleast 4 crewmembers to fly properly Pilot,Co-pilot, and 2 gunners. Oh and lets not forget the 2 positions behind the Pilots seat for the Navigator and I can only guess Flight Engeeneer.


Well that's okay, I think most reasonable people would be happy to take a performance hit in exchange for flying & fighting manually.I would.
Besides, RogueCloudWalker already said what you said in a way. The YT-1300 doesn't handle like a fighter, so if you're ever on your own and forced into a corner where you have to fight, then there's your performance hit. You've either got to try to manage shooting forwards with a slow turn rate (or even worse let the ship come to a complete halt and run to a turret as things are currently).

An why are you AGAIN compairing a Massivly Multi-Player game to SINGLE player games and it don't give me that XvT and X-wing Alliance where Multi-Player because you could NOT have the other Players board your ship and fire your guns for you.


Well I'm sure RogueCloudWalker will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the point is the XvT (note I haven't played this game) is an example of functional game mechanics where a pilot/player was flying a YT-1300 alone.

Also, in nearly EVERY case Han choose to run instead of Fight if it was at all Possable.





A lot of criticisms against pilot controlled guns in the YT-1300 come from the idea of it killing group play. I cannot imagine how thiswould everhappen. As I stated above (and many times before in other threads),a YT-1300 with only one player wouldn't ever be as good as fully crewed ship. You loose the human intelligence control of the turrets for one thing, add to that trying to fire forwards with the slower turn rate. So, there's no way in which a YT-1300 with pilot controlled guns would be by any measure "uber".


Some people also say, we already have pilot weapons in the form of missiles, which the pilot does fire. However, that's not the answer for two reasons: 1) Missiles don't do much more damage than a good cannon/gun. 2) They are limited ammunition, and you cannot currently reload in space. Furthermore, even if you could reload in space, you'd need a heck of a lot of missiles for the launcher to be a gun substitute.


Lastly, pilot controlled guns in a YT-1300 never need to kill group play because there is no reason for this to obstruct a group of players coming aboard. In short, If you want to group, then group and enjoy it. We're just saying that we want to be able to fly the sort of ship in which you can move around inside of on our own too. Just give us the option.




Freelance hunter and pilot - Available for hire.
Correcting the timeline, one Jedi at a time.

Sheriff of Mos Aga'me, 1KM West of Mos Eisely, Tatooine, Farstar. IGN: DaveG
I didn't use buffs or uber armour, so why did the combat revamp have to spoil my game?
John Smedley and SOE: Reap what you sow
Scoooter
Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:07 am
#61






RasalTheWise wrote:




Scoooter wrote:





Gawzeera wrote:

its a multiplayer ship.


you should not be able to do anything other than fly it by yourself.

never once in any of the films do you see Han or Lando flying the falcon by themselves. there is always at least 1 other person on board.









It's really a pacticality issue, sometines you cant get a crew mustered.







True, although if there were someone who was shouting in front of the Coronet spaceport that they needed a crewhand aboard their YT-1300, would you jump at that? Especially if you were a fledgeling pilot? I know I would.




Well yeah if you dont care about the crew. The coordination of the gunners and pilot takes a lot of practice to make effective. Its not easy to be effective not knowing each other.


Taking random people as opposed to having the people you have worked with can be dangerous







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truewildman
Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:27 am
#62






NeoSabre wrote:

In the extended Star Wars Universe (books), there are several occasons where Chewbacca controlled the turrets from the co-pilot's station. That ability would ad least be a compromise for now. Right now the Co-pilot position is nothing but a seat. It cannot even fire the missles that CAN be fired from the pilot's seat.






Yes, in a modified YT-1300.


People, we don't get the Millenium Falcon at master, we get a YT-1300!!





Boslo
-Elder Smuggler/Elder Commando-
Ra'van Crowe
-Elder Smuggler/Elder BH-
I'on
-Pirate-
"You gotta be a little insane to stay sane."
Ke_la
Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:36 am
#63

People read the Han Solo Triligy in I think the last book after he wins the Falcon from Lando he goes over the changes he wants to make including, Adding a front mounted laser, replacing the current blasters with Quads, Moving the SIDE-MOUNTED turret to its underside and adding the Holdout blaster for Hot escapes. and that button he pushed was a Jammer he did it again when escaping the Death Star.




Ke'la Korian, Waylon Korien, Me'na Korien
Ke'la is a Master Rifleman/retireing Ranger and Waylon is an ID/DE
Me'na is the mayor of the City of Obalisic
"Have fun storming the castle". -- Miracle Max
"I knew it I am surrounded by %##@&!$# " -- Dark Helmet
"I am not Dead yet!" -- Guy from Holy Grail

MadcowwithSARS
Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:39 am
#64






NeoSabre wrote:

In the extended Star Wars Universe (books), there are several occasons where Chewbacca controlled the turrets from the co-pilot's station. That ability would ad least be a compromise for now. Right now the Co-pilot position is nothing but a seat. It cannot even fire the missles that CAN be fired from the pilot's seat. The co-pilot's seat places a turret icon by your name when you man it. So, why shouldn't it be able to fire the turrets as it seems to have been originally intended in it's design?

Outside of that, IMHO, I believe the turrets should be locked to fire forward when unmanned. This is how they are in "X-Wing Alliance". There may be several references here to XWA, and as it game it may have some "creative liscense", but there is no reason that cannot apply here as well.Call it "playability license".








Books are Artistic License. They can Say Chewy had a headband on, that let him controll the turrets mentally if they want to. People dont get it, SOE could put little gremlins in there to control them if they want to. Bottom line dont site books or Previous game for fact, especially fact based around something as Star Wars. There is so much Star Wars Crap on the market you can find any evidence to support any theory you can come up with. Just like there are weenies that believe Boba Fett survived the Sarlaac Pit, just because a Splat book says so. Unless George lucas himself the god of Star Wars says a Standard YT-1300 has linkable turrets or non Linkable Turrets arguing back and forth is like to kids on a playground fighting over a bucket of sand.




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Dwiggz
Wed Nov 24, 2004 4:56 pm
#65

ok, but can we have a master ship then ?? hehe

like some sort of transport that could fire without a crew ??




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