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Would you be happy with an extreamly difficult PVE mission in which you cant hyperspace out or die?

I can see your problem with the PVP (i dont agree with it) but the part about not leaving or or repair/reload should stay so that it remains difficult.

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Message Edited by Jarkovi on 10-23-2004 05:34 AM

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Vicotnik wrote:

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BrotherDavius wrote:

Why is it so hard to get a group to do this mission?

Because not everyone is willing to subject their friends to hours upon hours (in a row)of missions. Besides a group won't help much in the first mission, though they are useful as gunboat decoys in the second one.

If your in a guild getting the master box helps them as well as you and if they help you would more than likely help them when there time came.

Do all of you want the pilot profs to be as esay as the ground profs??? if so why.

Nope. We just want to have a fun profession. Seriously, if you haven't tried these missions, you can't even begin to imagine how annoying and unfun they are.

If some one kills me in space be it pc or npc i will just repair my ship and get back up there with some mates and kill them all.

Good luck. Considering that your mission will be failed when you die, and the fact that there is nothing that keeps them out of Kessel after you shot them down... Well, good luck.

Also you would not need many people to cover you while doing the mission.

Space is small. Even with just about 5 people in Kessel, you'll see them on your radar soon enough. When griefers start to hang out in Kessel, you'll need much more than a small group to cover you.

What type of ties do you have to kill in this mission?

Top level versions of: TIE aggressors, TIE oppressors, TIE advanced, Gunboats and at a lesser extent TIE Interceptors (They don't seem as common as the others). Here's the catch: They hardly ever spawn, since the spawn rates in Kessel are low. Very low. Most of the TIEs that do spawn are escorts to Gunboats. In general, gunboats have a nasty habit of killing most people in just a few shots. They have four to six very accurate, hardhitting turrets. If you get one on your tail, you'll have to fly for many kilometers before they will stop chasing you.

With just a few people in Kessel, doing this very first mission took most people a few hours. Now, imagine how it will be when the zone has a big selection of people trying to do the missions. With people fighting over the few spawning TIEs/rebel ships, the mission length will increase. Now, on top of this, add the threat of other players (where one shot can pretty much end your mission) and you have yourself the worst mission. Ever. And as the topping of this cake of miserable mission design: Player kills don't even count for mission completion.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again (And this is not directed towards you specific, BrotherDavius): Unless you've actually tried or done these missions, don't make statements about how "some PVP" can't hurt. You'll be surprised at how this will end up. Even hardcore PVPers will get very, very frustrated when they get that Mark IV Proton Missile up their rear end when they are at their 20th kill for the mission.

Overall, it's blatantly obvious that the developers thought that this will promote PVP, when it instead will do the exact opposite. It's much, much better to make PVP optional, and create a good balance between risk and reward. Something to fight about (like land control) wouldn't hurt either.

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What if they make the ties spawn faster. and yes your mates can help you in the first part of the mission they can hunt and distract players so you can do your mission.

Also by the time JTL gose live and people get to this mission it may have changed. Most people don;t mind playing for hours on end some people play for 2 buffs in a row thats 6 hours right there, what would you find more fun grinding on the grounf for 6 hours or flying a mission with a mate and helping him out for 3?

You see the thing is all the combat profs in this game are so easy to master its not funny any more, atleast they are trying something new.

I also like the idea of have to kill 5 pc fighters to get master pilot.

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BrotherDavius wrote:

What if they make the ties spawn faster. and yes your mates can help you in the first part of the mission they can hunt and distract players so you can do your mission.

No, they can help you much. Trust me on this. You would need to have more mates than there are TIE's in Kessel. All it takes is ONE hit and your mission is over.

Also by the time JTL gose live and people get to this mission it may have changed. Most people don;t mind playing for hours on end some people play for 2 buffs in a row thats 6 hours right there, what would you find more fun grinding on the grounf for 6 hours or flying a mission with a mate and helping him out for 3?

It hasn't changed yet, and we've been mentioning this for weeks in the beta forums. Don't expect it to change until after a few months, when the developers realize how bad this idea was. Most people will enjoy grinding on the ground for 6 hours more than trying these missions over and over. Especially when they get ganked at their last 5 TIEs/rebel fighters.

You see the thing is all the combat profs in this game are so easy to master its not funny any more, atleast they are trying something new.

And that has exactly what to do with this thread? Oh, shall we create a PVP area on the ground, where all the combat professions are mastered through a quest that resembles the Malachi(or whatever) quest?

I also like the idea of have to kill 5 pc fighters to get master pilot.

I don't. I seriously don't wanna mess up someones Corvette mission.

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Vicotnik wrote:

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BrotherDavius wrote:

What if they make the ties spawn faster. and yes your mates can help you in the first part of the mission they can hunt and distract players so you can do your mission.

No, they can help you much. Trust me on this. You would need to have more mates than there are TIE's in Kessel. All it takes is ONE hit and your mission is over.

Also by the time JTL gose live and people get to this mission it may have changed. Most people don;t mind playing for hours on end some people play for 2 buffs in a row thats 6 hours right there, what would you find more fun grinding on the grounf for 6 hours or flying a mission with a mate and helping him out for 3?

It hasn't changed yet, and we've been mentioning this for weeks in the beta forums. Don't expect it to change until after a few months, when the developers realize how bad this idea was. Most people will enjoy grinding on the ground for 6 hours more than trying these missions over and over. Especially when they get ganked at their last 5 TIEs/rebel fighters.

You see the thing is all the combat profs in this game are so easy to master its not funny any more, atleast they are trying something new.

And that has exactly what to do with this thread? Oh, shall we create a PVP area on the ground, where all the combat professions are mastered through a quest that resembles the Malachi(or whatever) quest?

I also like the idea of have to kill 5 pc fighters to get master pilot.

I don't. I seriously don't wanna mess up someones Corvette mission.

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Seriously I'll say this again (And this time it IS directed towards you, BrotherDavius): Unless you've done or tried these missions, don't make statements about it. You can't even being to understand how this will end up on the live servers.

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So because i have never done it before i can not make a statement about it? i do intend to do these missions when i get JTL so this aplys to me as well as everyone else that will play the game.

If i find that i can not:

A. sole the mission.

B. complete the mission with a few mates.

C. complete the mission with lost of mates.

Then i will support you, but then i might be able to handle the mission even with the players attacking me.

I can see how a mission in a pvp could be anoying and even game breaking for some, but it might not apply to us all.

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Vicotnik wrote:

Seriously I'll say this again (And this time it IS directed towards you, BrotherDavius): Unless you've done or tried these missions, don't make statements about it. You can't even being to understand how this will end up on the live servers.

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BrotherDavius wrote:

So because i have never done it before i can not make a statement about it? i do intend to do these missions when i get JTL so this aplys to me as well as everyone else that will play the game.

Yes, that's exactly what I am saying. You madethe statement that ".. and yes your mates can help you in the first part of the mission", when you clearly do not grasp how the master mission and PVP in JTL functions.

I can see how a mission in a pvp could be anoying and even game breaking for some, but it might not apply to us all.

No, it won't apply to all. In fact, griefers will love it. Is that a good thing? Nope!

Now answer me this: Why do some people think that making sure that PVE players have to spend obscene amounts of time in a PVP zone is something good? What the hell is it supposed to accomplish?

Promoting PVP? You can't promote PVP by makeing sure that people who dislike it have to do it. That's kinda like trying to promote the entertainer professions by making sure that the people who hate the idea of entertainer professions have to try it.

Is it supposed to give PVPers easy targets? If so, why? PVP is more exiting when all who are involved in the fight actually wants to be involved.

Is it supposed to promote griefing? No, that would be insane. Right? The fact is that itdoes promote griefing in its current implementation. In fact, that's the only thing it does. How the hell am I supposed to be able to go PVP in Kessel in good concience now, when I might just ruin the game experience of a PVE player by hitting them with one shot?

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Cuality wrote:

i find it harder to kill an NPC craft than a PC one... players are a nice easy coupla shots since most couldn't outfly a seagull, and for some reason they all try to run.

Yes, it is much easier to kill a PC than an NPC. But that goes both ways, you die just as easy too. While doing these missions, you really don't have much chance to scan the nearby area for opposing players, so they will more often than not get the first shot.

I am the one you people are scared of meeting in space... i am the pvp guy who wants to shoot down anyone that he can... and i will do my best to... the thing is that even though other people are easy to knock down... so am i. i am as weak as the next pilot and the battles that i have won have alwasy been dictated by skill rather than who has the best stuff (the same is true for the battle i have lost.) The ONLY reason i am getting the expansion is to hunt down rebels in space with my interceptor.

First off: Don't bring up that "scared" BS. It's not true. That's like saying that people who dislike craftingare "scared" of playing crafters. Second: Good for you, I also got this expansion to hunt down rebels/imperials. However, I prefer to fight with those that actually like to do it.

that being said.. yes, they need to take the master quest out of the pvp zones. nothing worse than killing a crybaby who only whines that they were only doing a mission. i mean, solo players are fun to kill... but dang do they whine a lot. Most are too lazy to get a group together so they are always easy prey and rely too much on NPC tactics.get the mission out of our zone, you have 8 other zones, put it in there and let us PvP'ers have our fun.

Exactly. Even though your attitude could use some improvement.

for everyone who wants to try at pvp in the expansion: always remember... 2 >1. Get a friend. A wingman. If you want to pvp solo... prepare to spend a lot of time loading back into the station.

Yep. But the issue here is that people don't want to PVP, but they have to do it.

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Vicotnik wrote:

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Cuality wrote:

i find it harder to kill an NPC craft than a PC one... players are a nice easy coupla shots since most couldn't outfly a seagull, and for some reason they all try to run.

Yes, it is much easier to kill a PC than an NPC. But that goes both ways, you die just as easy too. While doing these missions, you really don't have much chance to scan the nearby area for opposing players, so they will more often than not get the first shot.

That's why you always have to be watching your rear... or have a friend do it. What is it... the "k" key or the "L" key? the one that targets the nearest overt player craft? Having someone on yer 6 keeping the buzzards away is the most important thing to remember... if you want to solo something... this is not the place to do it, for very different reasons than the ground game.

I am the one you people are scared of meeting in space... i am the pvp guy who wants to shoot down anyone that he can... and i will do my best to... the thing is that even though other people are easy to knock down... so am i. i am as weak as the next pilot and the battles that i have won have alwasy been dictated by skill rather than who has the best stuff (the same is true for the battle i have lost.) The ONLY reason i am getting the expansion is to hunt down rebels in space with my interceptor.

First off: Don't bring up that "scared" BS. It's not true. That's like saying that people who dislike craftingare "scared" of playing crafters. Second: Good for you, I also got this expansion to hunt down rebels/imperials. However, I prefer to fight with those that actually like to do it.

I'm scared of crafting. People are worried about being ganked, they find that they don't like being on the losing end. People don't like it when others beat them in something. Especially if they get swamped hard and fast. The original poster and his fellow non-PvPers are afraid of being "ganked"... key word... afraid... they don't want those l33t kiddies flying up behind them and blowing them back into the next zone. Also, I fight against any and all that come against me or my faction... and everyone else should stay away.

that being said.. yes, they need to take the master quest out of the pvp zones. nothing worse than killing a crybaby who only whines that they were only doing a mission. i mean, solo players are fun to kill... but dang do they whine a lot. Most are too lazy to get a group together so they are always easy prey and rely too much on NPC tactics.get the mission out of our zone, you have 8 other zones, put it in there and let us PvP'ers have our fun.

Exactly. Even though your attitude could use some improvement.

Sorry, don't really have sympathy for people who feel that all PvP'ers are l33t kids who's only goal is to grief you. Griefers are out there... but you will hardly ever find them in a situation where things are even. The griefers will be the ones who fly after you and try to ram you... not the ones who hunt you in the pvp zones where they have an equal chance of being killed by the person they are attacking. Heck, i have killed at least 5 people who got the first shot on me in beta... its not impossible to do... you just have know what you are doing and what is going on around you.

for everyone who wants to try at pvp in the expansion: always remember... 2 >1. Get a friend. A wingman. If you want to pvp solo... prepare to spend a lot of time loading back into the station.

Yep. But the issue here is that people don't want to PVP, but they have to do it.

I already said that. This was a friendly hint for the people who DO want to pvp out there. there are much more people who will be fighting in space than on the ground.

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