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but ducimus your example is really only taking into consideration awings and the fast fighters. what about the slower more tank like fighters?

Same as now probably, they'd get the snot beat out of them. Infact once you get behind one, it would probably be like a PvE fight.

At best they could expect a joust like scenario, but once you latch on to their 6, their probably done.

EDIT:

In any event im tired of discussing the issue. I can only explain why they shouldn't reduce it in so many ways, ultimatly sony will do what they do, so whatever i say doesnt make any difference anyway.

In a way i hope the DO reduce PvP damage by 75%, Ive done all 3 pilot factions, ive mastered shipwright, i spend all my game time farming for parts when not FP farming or PvPing. All that uber equipment im REing for myself will acutally give me more of an edge. Im questioning why im concerning myself with the issue at all, i'll do ok either way.

Message Edited by Ducimus on 02-03-2005 02:30 PM

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Ducimus wrote:
And no one as of yet answered my question.

Are any of you really thinking it through?

Do you want to use a 450 max damage blaster against 1500 shields or higher in a high speed PvP fight where your shots are a series of snap shots, and you ahve cap to shield shunt and other misc shield programs?

L7 Re enginneered blaster : 3000 max damage 6/6 mods. (which is acutaly a nice gun)

3000 * 0.6 = 1800
75 % of 1800 ( 1350 * .75 = 1350 )

1350 is 75% of our max damage, take this number and subtract it from our max damage

1800 - 1350 = 450.

Now apply 450 best case scenario damage against a 1500 shield that can cap to shield shunt every 20 to 30 seconds , or reinforce, in a high speed dogfight.

How long do you think that fight will go on?

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multiply that 1350 by two, your fogeting about wo3

right now with my advanced i dish out around 400 AVERAGE APPLIED damage (as in factoring in effectivness the min-max average and the 25% reduction) per shot. i think that should be halved personaly, but no more than that or the fights become horribly long. light fighters should kill each other in 1-2 hits, heavys should 1 hit lights, and lights should take 4-5 hits to kill heavys. for that to happen though you need a boost of the power of high level shields that dont fit in light fighters.

Message Edited by S-1-l2-H-C on 02-03-2005 02:47 PM

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Ducimus wrote:
Same as now probably, they'd get the snot beat out of them. Infact once you get behind one, it would probably be like a PvE fight.

At best they could expect a joust like scenario, but once you latch on to their 6, their probably done.

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But that's pretty much how it should be, and why these ships need escorts. The advantage is that if they get the smaller ships in their sights first, the smaller ship will most likely be dead.

However, in the current system these ships have no real advantage. With even more damage reduction, these ships will pack more of a punch compared to the fighters. Under the current system, only the fastest fighters are actually viable (andpretty much the"composite in space").

Message Edited by NasherUK on 02-03-2005 05:20 PM

" And no one as of yet answered my question.

Are any of you really thinking it through?

Do you want to use a 450 max damage blaster against 1500 shields or higher in a high speed PvP fight where your shots are a series of snap shots, and you ahve cap to shield shunt and other misc shield programs?"

I am not sure if you are aware of this concept, but code can be changed. It's shocking, I know. The world isn't set in concret. I hope you were sitting down, I would hate for you to have had an accident when the shock of revelation hit you.

If you are quite recovered: Yes, if damage is reduced cap-shield shunt would break PvP. Why does the concept of changing cap-shield shunt keep escaping you?

Yes, it's more complicated and difficult than keeping things as they are. Life is very tough.

Kerago

No one needs a smartass. If you can't make a post without making a personal attack then don't bloody post at all.

BTW, the core of alot of problems in JTL is not cap to shield shunt.
It's the WO3 bug increasing engergy efficiency instead of decreasing it.

with a single lvl8 tri-cannon re and only taking a shot every couple seconds since you dont get many opportunities in pvp, fixing wo3 isnt going to change much. so now you drain 28 energy instead of 7, but you still have a lvl2 cap that has 2000 energy with cap overload 4.

if they take the damage down alot though then they totaly unballance heavy fighters vs light fighters. my awing will still mount the same shield as a tie-oppressor, and about half the firepower (yes i cram in a re reward shield and gun), but im gonna be pounding the crap out of that tie-opp while it misses agian and agian.


the damage needs to come down, but only slightly, so that light fighters are barely able to one or two shot each other, and the larger shields that wont fit in small craft need a serious buff to make heavy ships viable in not only pvp but pve as well. furthermore we need a cert 11 (mkVI crafted) set of gear for mp ships. something like a lvl11 shield with 15000 front/back 150 recharge and 500k mass. and some lvl11 quad laser cannons that can be crafted. think similar damage to an experimental but a rediculous refire rate, something like .15

I'm sorry, I get a bit sarky when people repeatedly miss the point.

I never said that cap-shield shunt was a core problem. It only becomes a problem (and hardly even then when you look at the math what's his name did) when you increase engagement times.

Obviously things would have to change to accomodate longer engagement times. I am of the opinion that these difficulties would be worth overcoming in order to broaden the scope for enjoyment skill and teamwork that (even slightly) increasing engagement times would bring.

Ok let me as some of you folks this who have acutally PvPed and think damage needs to be further reduced. (common figure is by 75%)

In an A wing VS T/A fight, would you want to use a 450 MAX damage blaster given that your oponent probally have a 1300 to 1500 capacity shields, can shunt cap to shield every 20 to 30 seconds and has misc shield renforcment programs?

If youve PvP'ed think long and hard about how long that fight would take, and if it would ever end in a kill before someone just gave up and tried to disengage.

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Ducimus wrote:
Premise:

Reducing PvP damage will have 2 results:

1.) Equipment will greatly influence the outcome, and pilot skill to a lesser influence. where as right now equipment doesnt have a large impact, but mainly the skill of the pilot.
With pvp damage so high and 1-3 shot kills the norm, I feel space pvp has become mostly dependent on luck rather than a pilot's skill. let me use an analogy to demonstrate my point.


2.) Capacitor shunt to shield will make you invulnerable. Dogfights are fast in speed, opportunities to shoot very breif. Snap shots are the norm, getting behind your opponent like you do in PvE and lay into him is RARE, and only if he screws up.

Real Example - a dogfight i shouldn't have won:

I got in this dogfight with an A wing. He scored the first hit on a snap shot, but all he managed to do was take down my front shield, with no internal damage AT ALL. I immediatly shunted cap to shield. His effort wasted. It could take awhile before he scores another hit (if ever), and if he does, ill just shunt again. Kinda pointless. I score the next hit, and his ship was shredded to 10% chassis, 5% system in one hit.I use an L8 and L7 Re engineered cannons. Im assuming he was using like an L7 player made blaster.

Personally i think this fight exemplified why the damage is fine. Further Damage reduction would only further the equipment gap. I already had better equipment, it was obvious. He needed to get an RE'd cannon. Had he been better equiped i woudn't have won, as shunting wouldnt have done me any good. With cap shunt to shield with internal systems undamaged, he'd have no chance at killing me unless i made a collosally huge mistake.


That said, MP ships need a different rule set.

I dont expect anyone to beleive me, but my experience tells me things are working fine.

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ducimus i totally disagree with u where u say decreasing pvp damage will make pilot's skill less of a factor. check out this analogy.

"With pvp damage so high and 1-3 shot kills the norm, I feel space pvp has become mostly dependent on luck rather than a pilot's skill. let me use an analogy to demonstrate my point.

let's say tiger woods and i enter a putting contest. but we only get one putt each. now obviously tiger is an insanely better golfer than me. but since it's only a one putt contest, i could easily get a lucky shot off and win. but if the contest were lets say 15 putts, then tiger would most likely win since he would have a better opportunity to display his skill.

in my opinion, pvp(and only pvp)damage should be reduced beyond the initial 25% which the devs already did. i think another 30-50% would be right on. the very least the devs could do is put a damage reduction on test center to let us test it out."

a couple weeks ago i made this post in my own thread and everyone who replied agreed with me.

Message Edited by Ditolus on 02-03-2005 12:40 PM