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Thread: Nov 15th and its effect on JTL
Sandsifter
Mon Oct 18, 2004 6:41 pm
#41
It really wont affect it. No MMORPG has EVER, EVER, drawn a huge ammount of another MMORPGs community. It'll draw a few, but nothing very substantial. MMORPG killers, as they call it, are often over-hyped and fail to meet expectations. Most will soon find the same in WoW and Matrix Online. Plus, these two wont affect SWG and JTL, specifically JTL because it comes out OCTOBER the 27th, not November the 15th. Plus, the majority, infact, probably 90% of the ammount of JTL copies sold will be to SWG players, because its an expansion pack. And so, really, two new MMORPGs wont even effect it. In the end, we'll see that JTL will really do fine, and the two MMORPGs which, like all MMORPGs, will fail to meet over-hype and exaturated features, and will eventually be flooded with hordes of angry community fan-base of rants, whines, and immature incoherant suggestions. welcome to the world of any MMORPG
I disagree.
1. Your first point is flawed in reasoning. Mmorpg dont have a long established history for one thing. You make it sound like mmorpgs have been around forever and its established that no mmorpg has taken thousands of subscribers previously. We've really only had a few mmorpg (mmorpg being more than 100k subscribers) and they can be divided up into 1st generation - Ultima, EQ (and a few small ones) 2nd generation - DAoC, SWG, CoH, FF11, Lineage 2. Some would argue that WoW and EQ2 will start the 3rd generation of mmorpg while others say since there's nothing new they belong to second generation mmorpg. Regardless, we're looking at a unique situation here that has no presidence. So to compare it to anything (really nothing to compare with). Secondly, you are wrong in that no mmorpg has had to face the current situation... two major mmorpg launches at once. 3rd, most mmorpg are new games with no established fan base and thus are hard to get a big bang out the gate. Games like WoW and EQ2 literally have millions of players waiting to grab em. EQ1 alone has had twice as many players as swg ever had.
2. You claim these games will fail to deliver and fans will scream about them being overhyped. Please show me evidence (besides your opinion) that this will happen. Based on the money spent for EQ2, a record 20 million its gotta be good. Not to mention all we hear on sites like iogc.net and mmorpg.com is fan after fan posting how good the game is. Ditto for WoW, 95% of the posts go into great detail about how immense, wonderful, content loaded, lag-free the game is. I have probably seen 40 postings on those sites in recent days (since SOE lifted its NDA on EQ2) and all were 100% positive.
You act like all swg is facing is another CoH or FF11. Multiply that times 4 and you get an idea what SWG is facing. Heck even that was bad for SWG. In oct 2003 SWG had 295k subscribers (based on SOE's own numbers). Between now and then SWG dropped to 150k (based on independent websites that dont overinflate) so CoH and FF11 took roughly half of SWG players away. And those were to soso games launched separately. Now look at what a EQ2+WoW combo launched near a major holiday season will do. Blizzard with its millions of fans, EQ2 with its already established fan base waiting to get in. My prediction is within a month EQ2 will have 600k subscribers, WoW 400k, and SWG will go from 150k down to 50k. All that will be left are some hardcore star wars fans like me and you 
Message Edited by Sandsifter on 10-18-2004 06:47 PM
Haan-Salan
Mon Oct 18, 2004 6:45 pm
#42
Now I got one. Everyone is talking about EQ2 and Wow, but very little on Halo2. I never got into Halo, not my cup of tea. Why is everyone anticipating Halo2 so much? To me it just seems like a cybertech/terminator shooter. Only looking for opinions of why it's good.
Sandsifter
Mon Oct 18, 2004 6:49 pm
#43
Beats me, all Halo 1 was a 1st person shooter with inferior graphics to pc games. I never got it either, but I gotta buy Halo 2 because my son wont stop bugging me about it.
Little off subject though, a single player game cant compare to a mmorpg
Sandsifter
Mon Oct 18, 2004 6:50 pm
#44
Actually Blizzard only has Diablo and Starcraft fans. Anyone who has played those games knows those players aren't very desirable to play with(unless you're in middle school). Everquest has it's fans, but a lot of those(or us), play both Everquest and Star Wars.
Umm you left off the "Game of the Year" Warcraft 3 fans. There are some seriously hardcore warcraft series fans out there. And lets not forget Diablo 2 was also "Game of the Year" There are still tons of fans who play Diablo 2. You just proved my point... 2 major groups of fans who'll definitely be playing WoW.
Message Edited by Sandsifter on 10-18-2004 06:51 PM
Haan-Salan
Mon Oct 18, 2004 6:52 pm
#45
Heheh, I never really liked the judging system for these games anyway. These are the same people who tried to say FF7 was something like fifth best RPG game of all time.
gametruth
Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:03 pm
#46
Haan-Salan wrote:
Now I got one. Everyone is talking about EQ2 and Wow, but very little on Halo2. I never got into Halo, not my cup of tea. Why is everyone anticipating Halo2 so much? To me it just seems like a cybertech/terminator shooter. Only looking for opinions of why it's good.
you have to like FPS to like halo. Halo broke the mold of FPS games when it came out. From a gameplay standpoint it combines games like UT and Quake with games like Rainbow Six and Half- Life. While a fun single player game - it really shines when played co-op. But even that pales in comparison to the Vs. multiplayer. Great levels, weapons and VEHICLES made it the FPS of 2001. Now 3 years later all the Halo fanatics are over-eager to see what Bungie has done for the encore. The first game has sold over 6 million copies. The second has already broken 500,000 and it isn't even released yet.
Granted, it won't draw that many people from EQ2, WoW or SWG since Halo 2 appeals to a vastly different gamer (except for a few of us :robotmad
But all said and done it will outsell all three of them put together. And for those that play both SWG and Halo 2 - i suspect that a good majority of them won't really be logging on much for a few weeks after Halo 2 comes out.
Cuality
Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:17 pm
#47
WoW will still be considered a 2nd generation game. It is (when you break it down) a clone of the rest of the MMORPGs out there. Its a very well-polished clone. But a clone nonetheless. EQ2 comes in as more dynamic than any other game out there and promises to be a good play (at least from what i've seen in beta) However, EQ2 lacks things that are inherent in SWG. No player generated economy in EQ2. Loot and camps are still the name of the game. No abstract customization of characters. You are what you are. Now you can augment this as you progress, much in the way of Daoc. But if you start as a fighter... you will play through the game as a fighter class. Not to mention that once JTL hits... it basically encroaches into flight sim territory. EQ2 will draw people from EQ and the other fantasy realms (EQ2 and WoW will have a long drawn out battle when they launch... EQ2 is the superior game, but i'm sure Blizzard will throw some sort of added incentive to draw people into it, but the draw from SWG will be only a handful of people who are MMORPG jumpers, people who don't do swords and faires, people who are sci-fi or Star Wars fans, people who love flight sims will stay in this game. The bigger question is how much will the combat revamp effect the game? I would expect them to do the whole "come back and try us now that we fixed the game" ploy.
Sandsifter wrote:
It really wont affect it. No MMORPG has EVER, EVER, drawn a huge ammount of another MMORPGs community. It'll draw a few, but nothing very substantial. MMORPG killers, as they call it, are often over-hyped and fail to meet expectations. Most will soon find the same in WoW and Matrix Online. Plus, these two wont affect SWG and JTL, specifically JTL because it comes out OCTOBER the 27th, not November the 15th. Plus, the majority, infact, probably 90% of the ammount of JTL copies sold will be to SWG players, because its an expansion pack. And so, really, two new MMORPGs wont even effect it. In the end, we'll see that JTL will really do fine, and the two MMORPGs which, like all MMORPGs, will fail to meet over-hype and exaturated features, and will eventually be flooded with hordes of angry community fan-base of rants, whines, and immature incoherant suggestions. welcome to the world of any MMORPG
I disagree.
1. Your first point is flawed in reasoning. Mmorpg dont have a long established history for one thing. You make it sound like mmorpgs have been around forever and its established that no mmorpg has taken thousands of subscribers previously. We've really only had a few mmorpg (mmorpg being more than 100k subscribers) and they can be divided up into 1st generation - Ultima, EQ (and a few small ones) 2nd generation - DAoC, SWG, CoH, FF11, Lineage 2. Some would argue that WoW and EQ2 will start the 3rd generation of mmorpg while others say since there's nothing new they belong to second generation mmorpg. Regardless, we're looking at a unique situation here that has no presidence. So to compare it to anything (really nothing to compare with). Secondly, you are wrong in that no mmorpg has had to face the current situation... two major mmorpg launches at once. 3rd, most mmorpg are new games with no established fan base and thus are hard to get a big bang out the gate. Games like WoW and EQ2 literally have millions of players waiting to grab em. EQ1 alone has had twice as many players as swg ever had.
2. You claim these games will fail to deliver and fans will scream about them being overhyped. Please show me evidence (besides your opinion) that this will happen. Based on the money spent for EQ2, a record 20 million its gotta be good. Not to mention all we hear on sites like iogc.net and mmorpg.com is fan after fan posting how good the game is. Ditto for WoW, 95% of the posts go into great detail about how immense, wonderful, content loaded, lag-free the game is. I have probably seen 40 postings on those sites in recent days (since SOE lifted its NDA on EQ2) and all were 100% positive.
You act like all swg is facing is another CoH or FF11. Multiply that times 4 and you get an idea what SWG is facing. Heck even that was bad for SWG. In oct 2003 SWG had 295k subscribers (based on SOE's own numbers). Between now and then SWG dropped to 150k (based on independent websites that dont overinflate) so CoH and FF11 took roughly half of SWG players away. And those were to soso games launched separately. Now look at what a EQ2+WoW combo launched near a major holiday season will do. Blizzard with its millions of fans, EQ2 with its already established fan base waiting to get in. My prediction is within a month EQ2 will have 600k subscribers, WoW 400k, and SWG will go from 150k down to 50k. All that will be left are some hardcore star wars fans like me and you
Message Edited by Sandsifter on 10-18-2004 06:47 PM
metalmolder
Mon Oct 18, 2004 8:20 pm
#48
What ppl are saying, i think, is that you have some clues to lead u to the fact that the game will wither, but u have put in all the facts... and when u do that, don't worrry, there will still be SWG
Liamo
Tue Oct 19, 2004 12:11 am
#49
WoW and EQ2 doesn't have to worry about being as close to an established universe as possible. That takes people away from from a strict bug fixing and polishing position.
I think they needed an entire department just overseeing continuity (if they already didn't).
Basically though, all the other games do not have an established universe they have to work in. If something is too buggy, they could just remove it and no harm no fowl. Can't do that with Galaxies. Some things HAVE to be put in at launch due to it being Star Wars.
wyx1
Tue Oct 19, 2004 1:23 am
#50
Wow looks like it has some good ideas TBH.
-No kill stealing. (mobs get tagged)
-No loot camping (good items bind to character so you cant sell it)
-All main dungeons/zones instanced.
-LOOT.
-Pure PVP server.
-You get Xp from missions not just farming/grinding.
SWG just seems to be too far ahead of its time. A completely player run world is great idea on paper but in reality just isnt that 'fun'. Im sick of waiting for SWG to become fun,which im sure it will eventually, my patience and interest is wearing out and am tempted by wow. I just hope JTL isnt a lag fest or its over for me
Message Edited by wyx1 on 10-19-2004 01:31 AM
mkummer
Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:12 am
#51
gametruth wrote:
nov 15th won't be a problem for me (i hate fantasy mmoprgs with a passion)
however after nov 9th, my SWG time will be drastically reduced
/dreams of halo 2
I agree nov 9th will realy become a problem. But also Oct 28th is a problem for JTL. Too much games and too less time.
/dreams of GTA: San Andreas
Liamo
Tue Oct 19, 2004 5:56 am
#52
I really think SWG needs to do a better job at marketing this game to more Star Wars fans. Know why Battlefront is such a success? It was crammed down our throat with the DVDs, commercials and magazine ads. Where was the type of support for SWG. If you weren't a gamer, you knew nothing about it or didn't understand it. It was oure luck I stubled upon it.
Why wasn't the JTL promo included on the Star Wars DVDs?
Now, you might ask, what the heck does this have to do with everything and the topic? Well, the people we lost I'm glad we lost to the other games. If FFXI or CoH or soon to be WoW and EQ2 is more what they like playing, they need to go. We need more Star Wars fans and less power gamers.
If some of the same people saw the Original Star Wars in 1977 with the same attitude they have here, they would be yelling "fake" every chance they get to ruin the experience for everyone else. They've become jaded to the the world that was created for them.
Where is the awe at living in the Star Wars universe?
There is no way you can come close to having that experience with any of the others MMORPGs.
WoW with 400k active subsciptions, I doubt it. Warcraft is a pimple on the ass of Star Wars. EQ has so many people because it was the trailblazer and Final Fantasy I believe is including Japanese subsciptions-we'll see when SWG launches there with EA at the helm.
If SOE and LA want to be the #1 MMORPG they need to market to Star Wars fans. This game is treated like the red headed step child.
Where were the DVD tie ins? How many comercials for SWG compared to Battlefront?
I don't understand that at all. Battlefront has zero revenue stream. SWG is $15 a month. It needs a proper relaunch. I was hoping with JTL-maybe with the Combat Revamp.