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Thread: The Petition For an Alternative to Forced PvP for Mastery
Trashawn
Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:50 pm
#40
Vicotnik wrote:
Trashawn wrote:
There are noTEFs in space, the only way for players to PVP in space is tobe overt or /duel. if you are covert you can do your missions without having to deal overt players shooting you down even if your shooting down your opposing NPC faction. NO PVP is forced on you.
Message Edited by Trashawn on 10-22-2004 02:43 AM
Wrong. There is another way: Enter Kessel.
You can't do the master missions without entering Kessel, so you will have to deal with players attacking you.
Message Edited by Vicotnik on 10-22-2004 08:48 AM
Bah... semantics..come prepared with squadron of your guildmates. any one know if these are duty missions just for XPor needed for completion?
Message Edited by Trashawn on 10-22-2004 02:52 AM
snorbarnet
Fri Oct 22, 2004 3:52 am
#41
Yepp. Fully agree on this one. As it stands now we'll see a gank fest so large even the gods themselveswill tremble in fear! 
Carhrid
Fri Oct 22, 2004 4:23 am
#42
I've been posting on the BETA forums over this, and thought i'd best stop by here as well.I also disagree with these missions taking placed in a PvP enabled System.
To those saying that your not being "forced" into PvP, becasue you "choose" to master the prfession... how about if all the crafting professions could only be mastered if you crafted an item using LOOTED components from a high level Mob in a dungeon? It's not the same thing, but its the same arguement.... you think it's "unfair" to have to make somethign using loot to master? Well, it's your choice to master..... The arguement just dosent hold water.
I came up with something that may help though. AS the NDA is lifted I can say. When you do your Tier 1 missions, you actually launch into a INSTANCED version of the Space around the starter planets. Once youve done the level one missions, you then launch into the same instance as everyone else. (this was so that the Tier 1 pilots could hunt targets effectively without running into anything too nasty, the "Tier 1 instance" has larger numbers of low level mobs)
Why not do the same for the Master Missions? If you dont have the Master Box, you travel to an Instance of Kessel. There you do your mission. If you Have the master box, you go into a different Instance, where you can PvP. This should limit most of the ganking (not all though) as I found most gankers only like to do it if they are top of the line themselves. They wont want to limit themselves to 4-4-4-4 pilot just to gank other people.
Good idea or bad idea?
EDIT: The only problem i can see is those people taking guildmates to help them who are masters and not being able to get into the same Instance. You could cover this by allowing access if they are Grouped with a player who has a mission in the Instance.
Message Edited by Carhrid on 10-22-2004 12:27 PM
Eldarin
Fri Oct 22, 2004 5:23 am
#43
Kelko wrote:
I understand the fustrations of those in this situation, however my choice is not to master and be put in that situation. It's not a debate as to whether or not the system sucks (which clearly it does), It is a debate as to whether or not it is "forced" PvP and the fact that we all have a choice to pursue master or not negates any argument that this is forced PvP. And as for the analogy of the combat profession there is a distinct difference in that and the pilot; pilot doesn't actually cost any skill points to advanced where as all other professions do.
DaMidge wrote:
Just for clarification for a few people
There are only a few people that reached 4444 pilot and got to master missions in beta. There was a consensus formed among those that made it (a vast majority) that this is a bad idea.
If you want to master (and i know some of you posting that this is ok think you will) you will have to kill 30 rebel high level ships or 30 high level ties to pass misson 1. If you die or leave for repairs you WILL fail and have tro restart at 0. To kill 30 ships takes at least 3 hours if you are disconected or if the server crashes you WILL restart at 0.
Now on to the PvP part. Targeting is still a work in progress as is situational awareness it will take 1 hit from an opposing player to cripple you enough to restart your mission.
The reason so many of us are wanting a change is that you are doing a PvE mission in a PvP environment were a fraction of a second error over a 3 hour tour kills all work you do.
Now let me answer the solutions offered:
group up: Wont matter u get hit you are done you cant repair in kessel AT ALL.
Be aware: You cant at least not yet you can watch the radar but it doesnt stop that 1 hit when you dont see it coming.
Ask your self this do you know any griefers on your respective servers? Well you can garuntee they will be sitting in kessel waiting to shoot you not because it gets them anything but because it prevents you from getting anywhere. So you kill them, they dont care they will repair and return in minutes to do it again. What if there is a group of them.
Would you enjoy killing 30 enhanced klikniks to master any combat profession if the Geo caves werew a PvP arena??
Sadly this will take you seeing it for yourself as we have. Wait till you kill 29 ships have one left and a missle hits you (because after 3 hours you have no counter measures left and no way to reload) I garuntee after the first time you will be screaming on the forums for something to change. I will watch the boards in about 3 weeks to see how many of you have truely seen it for yourselves and had a change of heart.
Oh and lastly I guess that lvl 8 9 10 equipment and multiplayer ships arent whats being paid for by the vast majority? Last time i checked PvP was in the minority not PvE.
I couldn't disagree more with that statement. How many of us who ever buy an MMORPG or it's expansion are actually looking forward to putting down money on top of a montly fee only to make a choice as to if we will master a profession? I don't follow your logic. No profession should require pvp nor missions in a pvp environment to master- it's really as simple as that. Now, if you have a profession that would be considered pvp from the start (novice pk'er for instance)...
Your statement that we are not "forced" to master pilot is outright lame (sorry if that sounds like I'm flaming, but I can't think of any other word for it.) We are not "forced" to pay the montly fee for the game either. We're not "forced" to heal our battle fatigue, nor are we "forced" to make credits to run harvesters. I could clearly go on here. And, for good measure, we are not "forced" to master any profession...yeah that sounds like a fun game. NOT
Jarkovi
Fri Oct 22, 2004 5:29 am
#44
Many people are trying to master pilot just so they can be a shuttle for their buddies. Why pvp is required to master any profession in SWG is outrageous to thouse that don't pay to fight other players...
Eldarin
Fri Oct 22, 2004 5:30 am
#45
Trashawn wrote:
There are noTEFs in space, the only way for players to PVP in space is tobe overt or /duel. if you are covert you can do your missions without having to deal overt players shooting you down even if your shooting down your opposing NPC faction. NO PVP is forced on you.
Message Edited by Trashawn on 10-22-2004 02:43 AM
The mission to get your master box takes place in an open pvp zone. So, therefore...*drum roll* you are open to attack by other players. If you want that master box, pvp is forced on you. Unless you think that you can just use a macro that repeats, "pls don't attack me, I'm just a ship on a dimplomatic mission," to avoid those players who enjoy ruining your ship and your mission at the same time.
Jarkovi
Fri Oct 22, 2004 5:33 am
#46
^^^
Then change the mission to a non-pvp zone and be done with it.
Felinae
Fri Oct 22, 2004 7:08 am
#47
rrdwaveslr wrote:
if im not mistaken, and i may be, the only content that is not available to none Ace's would be Deep Space, which requires 30 prestige points, and is an entirly a PvP zone, so if u don't want to pvp why do you want to have this content so much anyway?
I want my B wing, Firespray, tie opr, all the mutliplayer ships, i want a chance to enter the zone and not be shot to hell before I even load in cause thats the way it is sometimes now on beta, hows it going to be when a whole server of griefers is there.
Siptyx
Fri Oct 22, 2004 7:16 am
#48
/sign
looks to me like the mission is hard enough as it is without throwing in a bunch of griefers to deal with
looks to me like the mission is hard enough as it is without throwing in a bunch of griefers to deal with
Chickenbone
Fri Oct 22, 2004 7:59 am
#49
This is worse than the ground game! Most likely you have to PvP to finish your profession. That is just ridiculous. I thought the Devs said PvP is a choice in space. When they said that I thought they meant you can finish your profession and If you would like to PvP, you just have to declare or go to a PvP zone.
/shakeshead
/signpetition
404FileNotFound
Fri Oct 22, 2004 8:59 am
#50
/signpetition
while I don't think it's really "forced" PvP...it most definately opens me up to having my gameplaying experienced ruined by a PvP griefer.
For those doing the Jedi grind, imagine taking on that Sith Lord Michaelea (sp?) being close to finishing him and having some griefer with a name like "L337Boi Hax0r" cap you at the last second.
My experience in SWG should *not* include forced interaction with any PC.
Zubzai
Fri Oct 22, 2004 9:08 am
#51
I enjoy PvP sometimes, if it is an even playing field then I enjoy it alot. However I see no good reason why anyone should be forced to do it.
And with guys like www.darkwolves.biz around, you have to see that there is a very good reason in any game to avoid PvP. These guys are low life scum. They play these games purely to grief people. There Raison D'etre is the destruction of other peoples gaming experience, and this is a major reason why games need to be designed to cut out opportunities forgriefing.
This current design is a mistake..
/sign
Message Edited by Zubzai on 10-22-2004 05:12 PM
MonsofoLexius
Fri Oct 22, 2004 9:13 am
#52
Jarkovi wrote:
^^^
Then change the mission to a non-pvp zone and be done with it.
that is what we are trying to get them to do