Jump To Lightspeed Archive
Thread: Concerning the Pro's of Forced PvP Mastership......
Blu_Haze wrote:
/sigh
One of these days all of you "PVE" people will catch up to the rest of the world and this whole "PVE vs. PVP" tug of war won't even be an issue anymore. Let's face it, having environments where you are prevented from attacking other people by some magical and invisible barrier simply isn't realistic and is quickly becoming obsolete. As technology advances we get closer and closer to achieving a true law system in an MMORPG that actually works and punishes griefers while still giving people the freedom to do anything that they want.
To be honest, I'll never understand why some people are soadamantly against PVP in SWG. After all, you lose nothing at all when you die besides your pride.On the ground game the devs have made it so when you die you suffer no item decay or exp penalties in PVP, and in space all you have to do is repair your ship and you're on your way. As far as the actual mission goes, I agree that it should be altered so that if you die during the mission it doesn't automatically fail, preventing you from losing valuable time having to reset it. However with everything else in SWG it seems as though most of these "PVE" people are only afraid of getting their feelings hurt. Learn to /addignore and /report the smacktards that choose to verbally abuse people, move on, and enjoy fighting people who are actually honorable PVPers.
Also, stop pulling all these "facts" and statistics out of nowhere. All of these astromech stats that you're using are not only outdated but have nothing at all to do with JTL. The only thing that those numbers prove is that most of the people in the game are dissatisfied with the way the combat system currently works with the ground game. I can guarantee that those numbers will drastically change after the combat balance and GCW revamp when everything is balanced and fair again. Besides, it has nothing to do with JTL since JTL uses a completely different combat engine, Someone who might not go overt alot on the ground could very well spend most of their time in space fighting other players. It's a completely different battlefield and people will have a completely different opinion of it.
You might not believe me now but one day you'll see. There are more and more MMOG's coming out every day which are 100% PVP, not to mention the existing MMOG's that are starting to feature 100% PVP servers. To say that "majority rules" or "people don't like PVP" is ignorant and wrong, you're trying to use circumstantial evidence which doesn't even relate to the situation on hand to prove some flawed point. People said the same thing when modem to modem games started getting some public attention, and all the naysayers chimed in predicting that this whole "multiplayer" thing would never catch on. Look where we are now.
Message Edited by Blu_Haze on 10-26-2004 06:53 AM
Blu you never cease to amaze me with your lack of logic, understanding, and data to back up your claims. DAoC, arguably the bestPvP MMORPG,tried all PVP servers... they made 2, then closed 1 because there was nobody there. The remaining one isn't exactly full. Where's your proof that the majority of the MMORPG playing population is interested in PvP? Show me the statistics. Prove me wrong when I say the majority of people playing these games are not interested in PvP. Many of them aren't interested in it at all.
You and all the other PvP fans (including a good number of the development team)have this fundamental problem with understanding the following phrase 'I am not interested in PvP'. That doesn't mean I just haven't enjoyed it and given time I will. It means I do not have any interest in it no matter how much I do it. My enjoyment of the game is not based on beating another player. Many of the other PvE-only crowd feel the same way. It's just not how we are wired. Until you can understand this you will never understand where we are coming from.
Your predictions of the future may be right, but only because the developers will have driven off the entire segment of the MMORPG-playing and -paying population by being inflexible with a game mechanic (non-consentual PvP)that many people do not like.
Cuality wrote:
i'm a pvper, but i support the people who want this mission taken out... just so that we can get them to stop crying. Seriously, if you really feel you will have issues with the missions in the pvp zone, bring friends, bring lots of friends. 20 friends running cover for you sure will stop you from being "griefed"
I am 100% against being forced to PVP for masterbut I am most CERTAINLY not crying about it. Just the fact that you'd say something like that makes think you are one of the guys that will ENJOY killing people knowing it caused them to fail their mission. I hope you are not. People who do not like PVE are NOT crybabies, or wusses or anything like that. Please quit inferring that they are, it is insulting.
I am not afraid or scared of PVP in the least bit. But, when I am trying to complete a PVE mission (and very, very difficult ones at that) I don't want to worry about getting killed by another player. I ALSO do not want to have to worry about ruining another players PVE mission when I am trying to PVP. Bring 20 friends you say... hmm... Do you have ANY idea how hard it is for most people to get 20 people together, not to mention getting them all focused on the same objective. I honestly think large organized groups are about as hard to get going as getting a jetpack.
I also want to touch on something that I have commented on many times before but, always seems to fall on deaf ears. Those of you who argue that PVP in spaceis somehow much better and more equal of a playing field than on the ground because it is twitch based are just flat wrong.
First of all, thereare loot and equipment certs. Those with the best loot and equipment will have a gigantic advantage over everyone else, period. Remember, boys and girls, when you go into Kessel as a 4-4-4-4 pilot to attempt your master missions the Master PVPers there will be using equipment that is a full TWO certification levels above what you can use. NOT EQUAL. After loot you have a ton of other factors, such as computer speed (FPS), connection speed, (do you really think that the guy on 56k should be denied his multi-passenger master ship?) and so on. Once again, Space is going to be very very far from a level playing field.
What we have here is a system that forces players to finish tough objectives while fending of other players who will just flat be better than they are. Besides even if you are some kind of uber pilot with lots of skill all the other guys have to do is repair and come right back. If you leave your mission fails.
Absolutely nothing about this current system sounds fun to me in any way, either from a PVE standpoint OR a PVP standpoint. Honestly, the only people who could possibly like this system are people who enjoy ruining other peoples fun, and that my friends is the very definition of grief.
Message Edited by Gavin_Keel on 10-26-2004 10:59 PM
Tover wrote:
You have to stay in the PvP zone for hours.
No. Your 2 missions are to kill 30 NPC targets or to kill a Corvette that spawns about every hour. You do not have to stay in Kessel for hours to acomplish either.
If you leave, you must start over.
No, you can hyperspace out at any time. I did twice while doing the 30 target mission in beta. I landed once to reload missiles and countermeasures.
If you are killed you must start over.
No, if you die your mission does not fail. I died during the corvette mission then went back and finished it off.
Griefers in the PvP zone do not face the restrictions that a Pilot trying to get a mastery does.
As stated above, the pilot trying to get mastery does not face such restrictions. Also, you are assuming that there is an unequal number of griefers on each side. I suspect that the griefers will end up spending a lot of time killing each other.
Gavin_Keel wrote:
Cuality wrote:
i'm a pvper, but i support the people who want this mission taken out... just so that we can get them to stop crying. Seriously, if you really feel you will have issues with the missions in the pvp zone, bring friends, bring lots of friends. 20 friends running cover for you sure will stop you from being "griefed"
I am 100% against being forced to PVP for masterbut I am most CERTAINLY not crying about it. Just the fact that you'd say something like that makes think you are one of the guys that will ENJOY killing people knowing it caused them to fail their mission. I hope you are not. People who do not like PVE are NOT crybabies, or wusses or anything like that. Please quit inferring that they are, it is insulting.
I am not afraid or scared of PVP in the least bit. But, when I am trying to complete a PVE mission (and very, very difficult ones at that) I don't want to worry about getting killed by another player. I ALSO do not want to have to worry about ruining another players PVE mission when I am trying to PVP. Bring 20 friends you say... hmm... Do you have ANY idea how hard it is for most people to get 20 people together, not to mention getting them all focused on the same objective. I honestly think large organized groups are about as hard to get going as getting a jetpack.
I also want to touch on something that I have commented on many times before but, always seems to fall on deaf ears. Those of you who argue that PVP in spaceis somehow much better and more equal of a playing field than on the ground because it is twitch based are just flat wrong.
First of all, thereare loot and equipment certs. Those with the best loot and equipment will have a gigantic advantage over everyone else, period. Remember, boys and girls, when you go into Kessel as a 4-4-4-4 pilot to attempt your master missions the Master PVPers there will be using equipment that is a full TWO certification levels above what you can use. NOT EQUAL. After loot you have a ton of other factors, such as computer speed (FPS), connection speed, (do you really think that the guy on 56k should be denied his multi-passenger master ship?) and so on. Once again, Space is going to be very very far from a level playing field.
What we have here is a system that forces players to finish tough objectives while fending of other players who will just flat be better than they are. Besides even if you are some kind of uber pilot with lots of skill all the other guys have to do is repair and come right back. If you leave your mission fails.
Absolutely nothing about this current system sounds fun to me in any way, either from a PVE standpoint OR a PVP standpoint. Honestly, the only people who could possibly like this system are people who enjoy ruining other peoples fun, and that my friends is the very definition of grief.
Message Edited by Gavin_Keel on 10-26-2004 10:59 PM
actually, it sounds like one big cry. You have various complaints and complaining is crying. you are moaning and complaining about it and you haven't even done it yet. all you know so far is: the master mission will take you into kessel. Kessel is pvp enabled. so people automatically assume that as soon as they cross into kessel, dozens of griefers will be parked at the zone edges waiting for you... its a huge zone there, there will be other targets...
so, yes. you cried. you don't want to be "forced" into a pvp situation (not like you guys already din't win over on the whole covert thing) so keep crying, they'll change it, they always bow to the wishes of the criers.
Nacoa wrote:
Tover wrote:
You have to stay in the PvP zone for hours.
No. Your 2 missions are to kill 30 NPC targets or to kill a Corvette that spawns about every hour. You do not have to stay in Kessel for hours to acomplish either.
That's complete BS. Just finding the 30 NPC targets for the first mission took hours on beta, and will take longer on the live servers as there will be more people fighting over the spawns.
If you leave, you must start over.
No, you can hyperspace out at any time. I did twice while doing the 30 target mission in beta. I landed once to reload missiles and countermeasures.
That's also complete BS. If you did so without losing your mission, you found yourself a bug. The first mission fails on leaving the zone.
If you are killed you must start over.
No, if you die your mission does not fail. I died during the corvette mission then went back and finished it off.
Again, complete BS. Die during the first mission and you fail. Die during the second mission, and you might be lucky and still have enough time to finish it.
Slarus wrote:
Yeah it's crying to say we hate being forced to PvP, yeah whatever. If I never had to fire on or be fired upon by another player I would be very happy, but I guess that is just crying.
Basically if you don't agree or like what the other person is saying, your justification to write off every comment is that they are just crying.
Nice to know how you view the world, hope I never have to deal with you outside of this fourm, bet the whole world is just cry babies.
Always comform and accept what is given at face value, that's your way.
yep. /hi5 for figuring it out. face it, you are being forced into a playstyle you don't want to participate in... and you squeal like babies being forced to eat strained beets. not a bad thing, everyone does it... except those people who just adapt and roll with the punches.
The main point is that kessel is the hardest area in the game. Not just by the NPCs but from your fellow pilots as well. Hey, take it out... but scale the mission to something that is on par with what you may face when you enter the zone... 70 Top level NPC shuttles swarm you from all directions firing shots that can vaporate your entire ship in less than a few seconds... i bet if they put that in you people wouldn't be cryin so bad.