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TozierX wrote:

Okay i know no one cares about my two cents but here it is anyways. If we are assuming that game material comes from not only the movies but the books GL has approved then we must assume TIEs can be modified to have hyperdrives. The proof of this come from the Young Jedi Knight series of books. In the first book of the series Han Solo gives his daughter Jaina a hyperdrive to mess around with. Eventually the kids find a downed TIE from the battle of yavin. Well they decide to fix it up and modify it with the hyperdrive and it works. As you can see this is proof from the novel stand point that TIEs can be modified to have hyperdrive.

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Didn't they have to remove one of the laser cannons in order to make room for it? I seem to remember something about that.

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TozierX wrote:

Now on to the movies. There are few thnings we must look at. One thing is Obi-Wans statement about the short range ability of the TIE. Now a TIE stationed at the DS wouldnt need long range capabilities, but that doesnt completely rule out the fact that it is possible. No where does obiwan say "This thing shouldnt be here because it is incapable of holding a hyperdrive."

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Well, he does ... sorta. Solo more or less said that line though.
Rewind back some seconds before Han utters those words and you will find Luke saying: "It followed us!" meaning he thought the ship had followed them from Tatooine. Obi-Wan promptly corrected him and told him it was a short range fighter, where Han did not seem to disagree.

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TozierX wrote:

The last thing we must look at is Darth Vader's ship. He survives the destruction of the DS because his ship is equipped with a hyperdrive. Now the two ships in question are very similar in size so we must assume that this size of ship has room for a hyper drive. And if you doubt this show me your picture of a hyperdrive and its technical specifications. Formt he novels it seems to me that they can be carried by a teenage girl. Tell me that cant fit on a TIE. Anyways thats my thought on the matter. Thanks for reading.

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ROFL, you must have missed the added hull structure of the back of Vaders TIE then.
You are right though, a hyperdrive for a fighter isn't very big, about a meter tall and maybe 30-40 centimeter across in Vaders craft (that's a very rough estimate though).

I'm sorry, but there simply isn't enough room in a TIE Fighter to hold the Hyperdrive, it's supporting equipment to operate it, navi computer, which the TIE Fighter obviously doesn't have because it doesn't need it, sensors, increased powersupply (powersupply might already be sufficient though) etc... without taking something out, or adding more hull to house it.

Lastly we have the canon source (according to LucasFilm Licensing anyway, who are the people who are in charge of the official policy making of what is canon and EU material) DK's Incredible Cross-Section, it states, and I quote: "To reduce mass of the ship, TIE Fighters are built without defensive shields, hyperdrive, and life-support systems - so the pilot must wear spacesuits. The lightweight ship gains speed and manouverability at the price of fragility and dependence to nearby Imperial bases or larger craft for support."

There's also a nifty cross-section (obviously ) of the ship were you can see just how tightly packed a TIE Fighter really is.
It also has a cross-section drawing of Vaders TIE Advanced x1 by the way.


Now, admittingly, having to rely on other ships to get you from A to B in the galaxy can be frustrating at times, especially if you want or need to pursue someone. But how are we to know if we will be presented with the same choice that the fleeing rebel gets? And by that I mean, has it been said that you have to fly to this point in space to hyper to Tatooine, for instance (if so, then that is a moot point ). So if you are presented with 6 choices, which way will you go?


Somebody said earlier that if you put hyperdrive on a TIE it's not a TIE anymore. I have to disagree with this. A TIE is a TIE as long as it has Twin Ion Engines, though Vaders craft seems to be a QIE fighter type. But that's besides the point. Wether it has a hyperdrive onboard or not is irrelevant, it is not the propulsion system you use to fly around in space with.


I'm an Imperial by the way, and I don't care one way or the other if this game adds whatever it wants, because it has lost all credibility to me long ago.

Message Edited by JanGaarni on 08-23-2004 08:32 PM

Noo hyperdrive in tie unless u want to die fast......but with shields.. i think they will b able to have a shield its not that big u could put it ontop.. actually it prolly is big my fault but if u put a hyperdrive in...there kinda is a point...u can b killing evry x thats in fronta u and then som1 starts tailing u which is kinda un real but u could just dip out in ur newly crafted hyperdrive tie fizighterr

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Morai_KSC wrote:

I don't think the pointwas ever that you COULDN'T put a hyperdrive in a tie, but no one would want too... first it's true, there is simply not enough room in a tie for a hyperdrive. you COULD modify the hull, but then you're really not a tie anymore. BUT saying you could. the whole point is the tie is MUCH more maneuverable than an x-wing. It's built for quick fast turning to outmaneuver an opponent. X-wings can absorb hits, ties are meant to not GET hit. I would say it's fair to add a hyperdrive and shields to a tie. but you have destroyed all of the enginering that went into it and now you have a slug with hyperdrive and shields. you've given up all your maneuverability and speed and are now a target that can jump.

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NattyDreadlock wrote:

Certainly TIEs didnthave Hyper-drives, though later models may. The thing is, I assume you can plaster just about any part on any ship with enough fabrication and mods. So defualt TIEs shouldnt have hyper-drives, but the option to add them seems reasonable. But consider this, adding a hyper-drive to vessel not equipped to handle it should hav drawbacks.

First and foremost, the increased mass should slow the TIE's speed, acceleration and increase its turning radius. Also, the hyperdrive could arguably require a significant amount of power to engage, but also to ready in a stand-by state. So it should significantly increase power consumption and increase charge times. The way to combat this would to outfit your TIE with large more powerful engines and energy components...once again increasing weight and at the very least negativly affecting turn performance(assuming the larger engine is able to compensate for the additional weight on board).

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TulasiKid wrote:

Look, let's just assume for the purposes of argument that in fact, because of the "short-range fighter" quote from ANH, that hyperdrives do not come standard on Ties.

WHO FRICKIN' CARES!?!

Tulasi Kid

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Its not a matter of caring. Who are you to judge those who like to have acivilized argument over a trivial thing like spacecraft capabilites. Some of us like to do it just to pass the time. If you dont like the thread dont bother reading it. If you respond to the thread the way you did why did you even bother reading it. Out of curiosity how old are you? Is "Kid" appropiate? I think so.

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Krawid wrote:
I've read a good number of the novels that comprise the SW universe. In fact the latest series, New Jedi Order is excellent. Finishing the last book now. Anyway, onto topic at hand.

When Eps 4-6 came out it was the 70's so the Gulf War thing was NOT in Lucas' mind. More like the the Cold War. The Empire was basically the Soviet Union and the Rebels were the West. now this is in tactics. The USSR had MILLIONS more tanks, troops, planes, guns, etc compared to the West. They weren't comparable and one on one the USSR would lose. But their doctrine was quantity not quality. If your enemy has to kill 5 of your tanks for everyone he loses, you're are going to win eventualy win due to attrition.

Now onto SW. The Empire built thousands of TIE/In (basic TIE). From the books we know they have no shields and no HD's and no life support. We know for a fact they had no life support since we see Rebels in their fighers with no mask on but TIE pilots were fully covered. Yes you could argue it was part of the whole anomonity (sp?) of the Empire. You were just a number and not a name. They were meant to be carried by ISD and carriers into battle and overwhelm the Rebel forces. If you have to kill 10 of my fighters to win this battle you will lose. I don't care how good you are. With 10 TIE's on your tail, you're toast. Imperial troops were basically expendable. Stormtroopers overwhelmed you with fire and so did TIE fighters. So having no shields and HD's meant they were fast and manoeuvrable. Progressive upgrades led to the TIE Interceptor (different wings and newer engines) were faster and even more manoeuvrable. Built to combat the Alliance's A-wing which was blistering fast but had minimal weapons and shields. Darth Vader's TIE fighter was experimental and lead to the TIE Advanced. Reading the books you see that the Empire was losing by now and they couldn't afford to lose good pilots anymore. So they started equipping their fighters with shields and HD's. Alluding to the fact the RA's tactics of shields and HD's on their fighters was a good idea. TIE Defenders came after but were way too expensive for the Empire and never went into full production. It was superior to any fighter the Alliance had. It was faster than an A-wing; shields were tougher than a Y-Wing and it was armed to the teeth (4 laser cannons, 2 ion cannons and 2 missile launchers capable of firing concussion missiles and/or proton torpedoes.)

Now onto SWG. In a game such as SWG, it's impossible to follow canon to the T. I don't understand why people get so hung up on continuity. By having Jedi running around it's breaking the canon of the movies anyway. I know they said it at sometime during the movie that Vader wiped out the Jedi. Yes a few slipped through his fingers (Yoda, Obi-Wan) but you can't tell me he let allowed all the Jedi we have in SWG to slip through. The Emperor and Vader were basically what comprised the Jedi. If you were detected to have force abilities you were dead. So everyone needs to quit worrying about 'total' continuity and remember one thing. It's a game. If were followed SW to the T then there would be no Jedi at all, at least not as many was we seen nowadays and certainly not running around with lightsabers out and Jedi titles above their heads advertising to everyone. And being an Imperial means you wouldn't have TIE's with shields or HD's but you have a big ass ISD around to kick some Rebel butt. If that were the case every rebel in this game would either defect, quit or whine inssently (sp?) about how the Imperials are too tough. Then the nerf bat would come out.

So enjoy SWG for what it is. A game. I'm sure they try to follow the canon as best they can but when it comes down to it, to make the game more enjoyable, they have to bend some rules once in a while.

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Yureb wrote:

I personally don't mind ties having hyperdrives as this would be needed to travel to other systems, but its my understanding that ties simply don't have the room for drives and shields. Now points have been made here that such items should have extra power drain or decrease speed/turning rate, and I think these are good ideas.

And still others have made a good point that most ppl won't even fly the tie after awhile, all imps will want tie advanced and advengers. I do have on negitive coment to those of you who say drives AND shields are just to make it fair, I say trash that man! Imps have been kicking us rebs around on the ground for long time now even thoe combat is supposed to be "balanced". Imps are never satisfied unless they are better and uber compared to everyone else, and in my expireance this usally leads to exploits and in some cases hacking which completely takes all fun out of the game for everyone else.

So if any you imps read this know that you have driven many ppl away from this game and keep that up and there will be no one left to fight, btw do imps know the meaning of honorable combat? Because it seems to me you guys enjoy treating other players like nothing more then NPC who won't care if you kill them and greif them. Now I'd like to end this on a nicer note with this quote, which imps probably have never heard before........"do unto others as you would have them do unto you".........

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LOL sorry couldnt resist replying to this one. The Imps on if not all servers but most are out numbered 2 to 1. Imps have NO advantages on the ground (dont mention at-st's, most imps on flurry at least dont use them anymore, cost to much and can be soloed like anything else in the game). All the armor is the same imps comp armor is the same as rebs comp armor. Same with the weapons. So id really like to know what the huge advantage you believe the imps have?

As for tie's getting hyper drives I really dont even care its only for the ships to go from 1 sector to another. Dont think the DEVs said that it would effect performance outside of hyperspace or not.