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Thread: JTL Missions what in god's name is wrong with you SOE?
dridernce
Mon Nov 15, 2004 4:02 am
#27
a1davida1 wrote:
So everyone else should have to participate in rediculously easy missions, because you can't hang?
You might pay to have everything handed to you, i play for a challenge.
Message Edited by a1davida1 on 11-14-2004 11:42 PM
No, that's not what I am saying at all.
I would suggest that following solutions:
- That the missions be 'instanced' for those who prefer to solo and those that prefer to group (with Xp and rewards being higher for groups)
- That if you do solo, you can choose your level of difficulty (just as you can currently do with missions on the ground)
As it is, SOE have taken a lazy and restrictive approach: you must do this mission and you must do it whether you're an experienced or inexperienced player and whether you can afford/find good equipment or not. Otherwise you can't play the game you paid for.
Anrig
Mon Nov 15, 2004 4:11 am
#28
dridernce wrote:
a1davida1 wrote:
So everyone else should have to participate in rediculously easy missions, because you can't hang?
You might pay to have everything handed to you, i play for a challenge.
Message Edited by a1davida1 on 11-14-2004 11:42 PM
No, that's not what I am saying at all.
I would suggest that following solutions:
- That the missions be 'instanced' for those who prefer to solo and those that prefer to group (with Xp and rewards being higher for groups)
- That if you do solo, you can choose your level of difficulty (just as you can currently do with missions on the ground)
As it is, SOE have taken a lazy and restrictive approach: you must do this mission and you must do it whether you're an experienced or inexperienced player and whether you can afford/find good equipment or not. Otherwise you can't play the game you paid for.
Well.... i think that you are looking for a single player game here..... This IS a MMORPG and those games should encourage grouping....
The Missions to advance in JTL are no way to hard and they are also no way to long... they are the content that ground professions lack and its great the way it is... the missions rewards ARE already overpowered (look at that engine or the 14 drain blaster everyone gets its just ridiculous) and make every shipwright cry, because they wont EVER be able to compete with this. Especially the 92er Engine everyone gets... ri di cu lous !
In fact without the missions and them being hard to finish (they are not even hard though) there would be zero accomplishment in reaching master pilot... At the moment being an Ace means that you can at least pilot your ship in a medicore way and if those obstacles are being removed it wont mean anything at all anymore.
Oh and for the equipment... noone needs to "afford" ANYTHING... you can just loot it... the lower tier ships droprates are incredible and there is a lot of great stuff there being lootable.
It is also supposed to take some time to advance... The interesting thing about mastering is the way you have to go to get there .. not being master itself.
lisasdarren
Mon Nov 15, 2004 4:55 am
#29
RedRowan wrote:
Nice point.
Anrig wrote:
It is also supposed to take some time to advance... The interesting thing about mastering is the way you have to go to get there .. not being master itself.
RR
Agreed
Getting to master pilot is "Playing" JTL, once you reach master you have reached end-game, why do you want to rush it?
dridernce
Mon Nov 15, 2004 4:56 am
#30
Anrig wrote:
dridernce wrote:
a1davida1 wrote:
So everyone else should have to participate in rediculously easy missions, because you can't hang?
You might pay to have everything handed to you, i play for a challenge.
Message Edited by a1davida1 on 11-14-2004 11:42 PM
No, that's not what I am saying at all.
I would suggest that following solutions:
- That the missions be 'instanced' for those who prefer to solo and those that prefer to group (with Xp and rewards being higher for groups)
- That if you do solo, you can choose your level of difficulty (just as you can currently do with missions on the ground)
As it is, SOE have taken a lazy and restrictive approach: you must do this mission and you must do it whether you're an experienced or inexperienced player and whether you can afford/find good equipment or not. Otherwise you can't play the game you paid for.
Well.... i think that you are looking for a single player game here..... This IS a MMORPG and those games should encourage grouping....
The Missions to advance in JTL are no way to hard and they are also no way to long... they are the content that ground professions lack and its great the way it is... the missions rewards ARE already overpowered (look at that engine or the 14 drain blaster everyone gets its just ridiculous) and make every shipwright cry, because they wont EVER be able to compete with this. Especially the 92er Engine everyone gets... ri di cu lous !
In fact without the missions and them being hard to finish (they are not even hard though) there would be zero accomplishment in reaching master pilot... At the moment being an Ace means that you can at least pilot your ship in a medicore way and if those obstacles are being removed it wont mean anything at all anymore.
Oh and for the equipment... noone needs to "afford" ANYTHING... you can just loot it... the lower tier ships droprates are incredible and there is a lot of great stuff there being lootable.
It is also supposed to take some time to advance... The interesting thing about mastering is the way you have to go to get there .. not being master itself.
Let me try and reply to your post - I'm havoing some difficulty because dark red against a black background is not easy to read.
Your point that this is a MMORPG so people must expect to group has been answered very well in other threads. Essentially, it's a reminder that this is a MULTI-PLAYER game not a TEAM game. In other words, it's SWG not Doom.
You keep on saying, in fact you repeat it about three times, that the missions are not hard. In that case, please go through this thread and indeed other threads in this forum and check for yourself just how many other ordinary gamers are frustrated and blocked by the levelling missions.
dridernce
Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:04 am
#31
lisasdarren wrote:
RedRowan wrote:
Nice point.
Anrig wrote:
It is also supposed to take some time to advance... The interesting thing about mastering is the way you have to go to get there .. not being master itself.
RR
Agreed
Getting to master pilot is "Playing" JTL, once you reach master you have reached end-game, why do you want to rush it?
RedRowan puts his finger on the problem - 'The interesting thing about mastering is the way you have to go to get there'.
I don't mind exploring many different ways to get a job done (one of my crazy, crazy dreams has been to solo the DJM from the Dathomir Prison question - I have been trying for months and rarely came close. I am currently thinking of changing my entire template to Commando/Smuggler specifically to complete this single mission).
However - and tell me if I am wrong - there seems to be only one way to complete the very difficult Tier 3 missions. And that's to group. This goes back to my original point - the necessity of grouping is hard for those with not much time and who aren't in a large guild.
Jazzica
Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:19 am
#32
Well...the most annoying part for me by that multi staged missions are, that you get completely rid of if you fail just the last stage. Happened to me yesterday on the second Privateer Tier 3 mission. Played over 1 hour to make it to the last stage (what was rediculous)just to have seriously wounds and a load of to be repaired at the end..also failing the whole damn mission :/
Quite not funny. I seems to me that these mission designs are made for a single player shooter, but those do have a savegame functionality. I personally hate games where is no spot for saving at the whole mission. Though, SWG is a MMORPG...no saving possibility at all and this is good. But, than i expect a more sophisticated mission design as it actually is !
Quite not funny. I seems to me that these mission designs are made for a single player shooter, but those do have a savegame functionality. I personally hate games where is no spot for saving at the whole mission. Though, SWG is a MMORPG...no saving possibility at all and this is good. But, than i expect a more sophisticated mission design as it actually is !
CerionSkydreamer
Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:24 am
#33
First off, I am a casual player too, but I have two very earnest questions--not flames:
1). Does SOE design this game to appeal to the lowest common denominator?
2). How long is too long for missions? And where does it stop?
My answers:
1). No, they design it so that it's terribly difficult to solo, and allow the organic process of grouping to determine game difficulty level (unlike single player games in which you can mechanically set game difficulty level)
2). Remember the shuttle times? Even 5 measly minutes was too long for someone to wait. So if SOE listened to you, and adjusted mission length, there will always be some other person with even LESS time, and complain that the missions are too long.
The devs have to limit content access some how. Since the pilot profession has tiers in which entire boxes are gained solely by completing missions, and not xp grind, then the missions must be difficult as a trade off.
As a casual player myself, if I only have a few hours in one night to play, then quite simply I don't go on the mission that night. I do something else, like explore, or hunt for some loot, or dig around ship vendors for a good deal. Then, maybe on the weekend when I have a few more hours to spare, I attempt the missions. As a casual gamer, I'd think you'd realize by now that you have to plan your time wisely in an MMORPG. You also must lower your expectations that you'll get the same rewards in the same amount of time as a powergamer.
1). Does SOE design this game to appeal to the lowest common denominator?
2). How long is too long for missions? And where does it stop?
My answers:
1). No, they design it so that it's terribly difficult to solo, and allow the organic process of grouping to determine game difficulty level (unlike single player games in which you can mechanically set game difficulty level)
2). Remember the shuttle times? Even 5 measly minutes was too long for someone to wait. So if SOE listened to you, and adjusted mission length, there will always be some other person with even LESS time, and complain that the missions are too long.
The devs have to limit content access some how. Since the pilot profession has tiers in which entire boxes are gained solely by completing missions, and not xp grind, then the missions must be difficult as a trade off.
As a casual player myself, if I only have a few hours in one night to play, then quite simply I don't go on the mission that night. I do something else, like explore, or hunt for some loot, or dig around ship vendors for a good deal. Then, maybe on the weekend when I have a few more hours to spare, I attempt the missions. As a casual gamer, I'd think you'd realize by now that you have to plan your time wisely in an MMORPG. You also must lower your expectations that you'll get the same rewards in the same amount of time as a powergamer.
Message Edited by CerionSkydreamer on 11-15-2004 04:25 AM
ephon
Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:31 am
#34
I'm a neutral pilot....stuck on a tier 3 mission. I have many friends in game, but most of my guild mates do not have jtl yet. am I left with nothing but to spam for help at the starport? that is just retarted. I'm pulling out all the stops, searching for all the good parts ect. The computer commands neutrals get are usless, as are the lower level ships. The kihraxz for example is a complete waste of time, as it only has 30k mass. and I need to get trained to get a better ship, but guess what.....I cant train until I complete the damn mission! so soon my xp will be topped out, and I'll still be stuck on this mission. This is Too much like a damn video game, and not like a space flight sim at all.
dridernce
Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:32 am
#35
CerionSkydreamer wrote:
First off, I am a casual player too, but I have two very earnest questions--not flames:
1). Does SOE design this game to appeal to the lowest common denominator?
2). How long is too long for missions? And where does it stop?
My answers:
1). No, they design it so that it's terribly difficult to solo, and allow the organic process of grouping to determine game difficulty level (unlike single player games in which you can mechanically set game difficulty level)
2). Remember the shuttle times? Even 5 measly minutes was too long for someone to wait. So if SOE listened to you, and adjusted mission length, there will always be some other person with even LESS time, and complain that the missions are too long.
The devs have to limit content access some how. Since the pilot profession has tiers in which entire boxes are gained solely by completing missions, and not xp grind, then the missions must be difficult as a trade off.
As a casual player myself, if I only have a few hours in one night to play, then quite simply I don't go on the mission that night. I do something else, like explore, or hunt for some loot, or dig around ship vendors for a good deal. Then, maybe on the weekend when I have a few more hours to spare, I attempt the missions. As a casual gamer, I'd think you'd realize by now that you have to plan your time wisely in an MMORPG. You also must lower your expectations that you'll get the same rewards in the same amount of time as a powergamer.
Message Edited by CerionSkydreamer on 11-15-2004 04:25 AM
He he. You seem to think that someone who plays several hours a night and can then set aside a weekend to play is a 'casual gamer'.
Just messing with ya.
There seems to me to be two rather simple features that SOE could have added:
- Provide solo or group 'instance' options for each mission (we know they can do this because the whole Xp-gaining mechanic on the ground is based on this premise)
- Allow the system to recognise that certain stages of the mission have been completed (the quest recorder in your datapad actually lists the mission stages - only the system doesn't recognise it). I wouldn't mind trying to find out different ways of fighting off eight A-Wings if I knew that I would have to go back and disable a shuttle, fight off another squadron of A-Wings, go to another location, fight yet another squadron, escort a freighter and, only then get back to where I was the last time round - fighting that final wave of A-Wings again.
Efix_Lordana
Mon Nov 15, 2004 6:14 am
#36
JTL is what the SWG-ground game should have been in the first place. Levelling your character through missions , and a lot less of actual grinding. Also the dependency on groups is an excellent thing.
The long missions are meant to be hard, its finally a challenge instead of the "grab mission, kill lair, rinse repeat" stuff. Its now actually a matter of skill , either in the flying departement or in the coordination department.
People should get this "solo" idea out of their heads, and look at the bigger picture. If you want to play solo-games, go play X-wing vs Tie Fighter, or Jedi Academy. Also Knights of the Old Replublic is perfect for that.
If you have problems getting a group, maybe now its time to go join a guild, make more online friends that can help you out, and you will see there is so much more to get out of SWG and JTL if you have a group thing going.
I so far had a blast grouping up with people and got through to Imperial Pilot Ace. It was rock and rock hard, but so very rewarding one you get there. It actually feels like an achievement, a feeling I have so far never had with mastering Doctor or Rifleman in the ground game.
Hats of the designers of JTL, that made this expansion everything I had hoped for. If that pisses off the solo-ers, so be it, but thats a minority of people.
Why solo a multiplayer game, is behond me? Is it so hard to make a few friends, socialize and have fun? I dont think so. Try harder .
(and to all you 1-star bandits: knock yourselves out)
Efix_Lordana
Mon Nov 15, 2004 6:19 am
#37
Anrig wrote:
Oh and for the equipment... noone needs to "afford" ANYTHING... you can just loot it... the lower tier ships droprates are incredible and there is a lot of great stuff there being lootable.
/agree
Never bought anything from a shipwright other than the chassis. The loot system is perfect, and loads of cheap stuff on the bazaars. My ships contain only looted parts and are very well equipped.
RealTic
Mon Nov 15, 2004 6:22 am
#38
I'm on my first mission for Jabba. And where I don't find the combat hard at all escorting the frieghter, when I move on to the second part of the mission to take out the hired killer they always leave the area when I get about 1k away (Even the time I had 2 people helping me).
Mission failed. go back to Jabba's....Escort frieghter again... But I did that part..wth...
dridernce
Mon Nov 15, 2004 6:24 am
#39
Efix_Lordana wrote:
JTL is what the SWG-ground game should have been in the first place. Levelling your character through missions , and a lot less of actual grinding. Also the dependency on groups is an excellent thing.
The long missions are meant to be hard, its finally a challenge instead of the "grab mission, kill lair, rinse repeat" stuff. Its now actually a matter of skill , either in the flying departement or in the coordination department.
People should get this "solo" idea out of their heads, and look at the bigger picture. If you want to play solo-games, go play X-wing vs Tie Fighter, or Jedi Academy. Also Knights of the Old Replublic is perfect for that.
If you have problems getting a group, maybe now its time to go join a guild, make more online friends that can help you out, and you will see there is so much more to get out of SWG and JTL if you have a group thing going.
I so far had a blast grouping up with people and got through to Imperial Pilot Ace. It was rock and rock hard, but so very rewarding one you get there. It actually feels like an achievement, a feeling I have so far never had with mastering Doctor or Rifleman in the ground game.
Hats of the designers of JTL, that made this expansion everything I had hoped for. If that pisses off the solo-ers, so be it, but thats a minority of people.
Why solo a multiplayer game, is behond me? Is it so hard to make a few friends, socialize and have fun? I dont think so. Try harder .
(and to all you 1-star bandits: knock yourselves out)
Your post is rather patronising and dismissive to the many thousands of gamers who do tend to solo.
One could easily respond, if you want a team game go play 'Battlefront'.
The point is on the ground game, almost every mission can be soloed if you put in some real hard work. some clever tactics and the best resources (eg. even the Corvette). If you can't, well, there are plenty of other missions and experiences that you can enjoy on the ground instead. This is not the case in JTL.
JTL was not advertised as a 'team game'. If it had been, I don't think i would have bought it.
An mmorpg is about multi-PLAYERS not multi-TEAMS.