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No, the create the professions with the mindset that SOME people will master them, and those few will be well famous, or infamous for doing that. Having every second Character I see as a mster something or another doesn't fit. Not everyone can be best at stuff, thats why the few that are - are the best and should be renowned for that.
HeyHolo wrote:
Baalzvuv wrote:
Bloodshead wrote:
Arlianal wrote:
yup your right, its not fair, however, life isnt and no-one including the dev's care, so fight fire with fire, if you cant complete your master without going into pvp space, take 10 friends with you and gang bang thier ass just like they are trying to do to you.
Message Edited by Arlianal on 11-06-2004 04:17 PM
The point is we shouldnt HAVE to fight them. The devs completely ignored the 80% of the playerbase and basically lied to us AGAIN when they said pvp would be consentual in space. You shouldnt be forced into something that 80% of the SWG population DOES NOT enjoy when doing your PvE master mission.
But you donb't have to do it, no one is forcing you to go there. You want to be a master pilot? Then you willingly go there knowing that it will be tough, and hard.
I don't understand why having every player make Master (in any class) is a right? It should be a reward for someone that went that extra mile, and got the reward for working hard, not something that is so common it means nothing anymore.
How many aces are there? Very few, and they are feared everywhere because they are better then others, and I think that having every other player be that level demineshes the experience.
I could, and do, say the same about Jedi - there should be very very few, if any.
No offense, but that makes no sense...
They create the professions with the mindset that people will master them, so to say being master is a privelege you need to earn doesn't really play out. When they were creating the profession, I'm sure they did so with the assumption that everyone who took it would likely try to/want to master it, especially since it doesn't require traditional skill points. If they wantedyou to sacrifice, they'd have made it so it took skill points that way you'd have to drop ground masteries in order to master pilot, then it'd be a real sacrifice. Opening someone up to something they don't want to do isn't a challenge, it's just an aggrivation.
I do of course completely agree with you, i was merely saying that you know we got screwed over, they know that, everyone knows that but they dont seem to care, so was just saying instead of complaining about it we should just get stuck in do what is necessary, just because life throws some excrament at us doesnt mean we cant duck
Bloodshead wrote:
Arlianal wrote:
yup your right, its not fair, however, life isnt and no-one including the dev's care, so fight fire with fire, if you cant complete your master without going into pvp space, take 10 friends with you and gang bang thier ass just like they are trying to do to you.
Message Edited by Arlianal on 11-06-2004 04:17 PM
The point is we shouldnt HAVE to fight them. The devs completely ignored the 80% of the playerbase and basically lied to us AGAIN when they said pvp would be consentual in space. You shouldnt be forced into something that 80% of the SWG population DOES NOT enjoy when doing your PvE master mission. Notice I say PvE not PvP. Just because the mission is in a PvP zone doesnt mean its a pvp mission. You can complete it with having little to no pvp at all, oops cant now since there are already 200 pilot aces in there ruining it for the rest of us. Devs, you must prepare for the inevitible and get the mission out of Kessel. Its only going to get WORSE. More masters each day just means more pvp which for most pvp'ers is the endgame. Devs let the 80% of the population who dont want anything to do with pvp have a fighting chance at least??? notice the majority agree with my ideas and very few agree with the current idea.
Baalzvuv wrote:
But it is optional. You don't have to be a Master Pilot. There is no one forcing you to do that. It is a matter of choice - You want to get that level, you accept the consequences.
I think it is a good start on SOE + LA part, to keep the master classes out of the hands of every player that thinks he deserves to be the best at everything without working towards it. Case in point, the horrible change in Jedi - from something that should be the rarest thing ever - they may not be common, but now guides on how to become FS are out, and things like that.
REFREN wrote:
Baalzvuv wrote:
But it is optional. You don't have to be a Master Pilot. There is no one forcing you to do that. It is a matter of choice - You want to get that level, you accept the consequences.
I think it is a good start on SOE + LA part, to keep the master classes out of the hands of every player that thinks he deserves to be the best at everything without working towards it. Case in point, the horrible change in Jedi - from something that should be the rarest thing ever - they may not be common, but now guides on how to become FS are out, and things like that.
Yes Pilot is optional. I am a Master Pilot now! I am better than most of the players because I can play 10-12 hours A DAY! I hate those who killed me at Kessel NOW I WILL also kill those who are doing their Master Pilot quest!
NOW ACCEPT THE CONSEQUENCES!and play the game...Iwont let you get your Master Pilot title!
I am one of the Elite because I can play a lot longer than you are. If you only play a couple of hours everyday then you dont deserve to be a Master Pilot!
You point may have been valid if true, and I never said I felt like I should be one of those few. I am not, or even near the point where this is an issue. I am not a master in anything, and I doubt I will be.
When it's my idea to not let everyone be a Master - I am forcing my opinion on you, but when you trhink that everyone should have the right to become a master at anything, it's ok, since it's your opinion?
Screw that, Master ANYTHING should be something only very few players have.Thats what separated the Han Solo's from the rest.
Baalzvuv wrote:
Screw that, Master ANYTHING should be something only very few players have.Thats what separated the Han Solo's from the rest.
Message Edited by Zilod on 11-07-2004 04:51 AM
Zilod wrote:
Baalzvuv wrote:
Screw that, Master ANYTHING should be something only very few players have.Thats what separated the Han Solo's from the rest.
this is not how SWG works, and also master missions are not so difficult that only the best players can do them... what will make them difficult will be the ability to other players to prevent to accomplishthem...
this is not so skill related, is just that for the first masters will be easy because no grief players are aroind, when these griefers will begin to camp the entry point or to shot a missile to anything that moves here that the missions will become almost impossible to do.... again this is not skill is just the luck to do it when the system is empty.
also what should separe Han Solo from the rest is not the title but his ability to pilot... this expansion is played with a joystick is the player ability to fly the ship that makes him better not the skill level of his char, there is no need to not allow some players to use some equipement or some ships,
Message Edited by Zilod on 11-07-2004 04:51 AM
Well, thats how I think it should work, but like I am not, and can't force that, I wish the Master anyclasses that keep running around wouldn't ruin my idea of how things should be, but thats too late.
The title is derived from the ability. I wish they changed the way the equipment works or modified it in the expansion, seeing as how they did with other things, but they didn't. I hope to god they don't wussie out like they did with FS, and change things.
Baalzvuv wrote:
No, the create the professions with the mindset that SOME people will master them, and those few will be well famous, or infamous for doing that. Having every second Character I see as a mster something or another doesn't fit. Not everyone can be best at stuff, thats why the few that are - are the best and should be renowned for that.
HeyHolo wrote:
Baalzvuv wrote:
Bloodshead wrote:
Arlianal wrote:
yup your right, its not fair, however, life isnt and no-one including the dev's care, so fight fire with fire, if you cant complete your master without going into pvp space, take 10 friends with you and gang bang thier ass just like they are trying to do to you.
Message Edited by Arlianal on 11-06-2004 04:17 PM
The point is we shouldnt HAVE to fight them. The devs completely ignored the 80% of the playerbase and basically lied to us AGAIN when they said pvp would be consentual in space. You shouldnt be forced into something that 80% of the SWG population DOES NOT enjoy when doing your PvE master mission.
But you donb't have to do it, no one is forcing you to go there. You want to be a master pilot? Then you willingly go there knowing that it will be tough, and hard.
I don't understand why having every player make Master (in any class) is a right? It should be a reward for someone that went that extra mile, and got the reward for working hard, not something that is so common it means nothing anymore.
How many aces are there? Very few, and they are feared everywhere because they are better then others, and I think that having every other player be that level demineshes the experience.
I could, and do, say the same about Jedi - there should be very very few, if any.
No offense, but that makes no sense...
They create the professions with the mindset that people will master them, so to say being master is a privelege you need to earn doesn't really play out. When they were creating the profession, I'm sure they did so with the assumption that everyone who took it would likely try to/want to master it, especially since it doesn't require traditional skill points. If they wantedyou to sacrifice, they'd have made it so it took skill points that way you'd have to drop ground masteries in order to master pilot, then it'd be a real sacrifice. Opening someone up to something they don't want to do isn't a challenge, it's just an aggrivation.
LOL You think you will be famous for mastering pilot?! OHH LOOK OUT, its a master pilot! Women will hurl themselves at your feet and people will bow before your l33tn3ss! You will be comparable to darth vader you d00d You! This is exactly the elitest attitude I was talking about in all my other posts. Its as if these people have some mental condition that requires them to exert how superior they are to all others in video games.
JustusCade wrote:
Well you have to remember we pay a monthly membership to play this game, so the longer it takes to master the more money they hope you'll churn out in the process. I don't necessarily agree with the whole in order to master you are forced to PvP, and the master rewards aren't really worth the effort.
Yes, but they recieve even less money if the path to something the players want is impossible. I quit a game after a week when I found out it was a long grind to being a career I liked. I say with games I master fast and can then go out and see the world with. Not games that force me to be a slave to numbers or stupid quests.
Palad wrote:
Baalzvuv wrote:
No, the create the professions with the mindset that SOME people will master them, and those few will be well famous, or infamous for doing that. Having every second Character I see as a mster something or another doesn't fit. Not everyone can be best at stuff, thats why the few that are - are the best and should be renowned for that.
HeyHolo wrote:
Baalzvuv wrote:
Bloodshead wrote:
Arlianal wrote:
yup your right, its not fair, however, life isnt and no-one including the dev's care, so fight fire with fire, if you cant complete your master without going into pvp space, take 10 friends with you and gang bang thier ass just like they are trying to do to you.
Message Edited by Arlianal on 11-06-2004 04:17 PM
The point is we shouldnt HAVE to fight them. The devs completely ignored the 80% of the playerbase and basically lied to us AGAIN when they said pvp would be consentual in space. You shouldnt be forced into something that 80% of the SWG population DOES NOT enjoy when doing your PvE master mission.
But you donb't have to do it, no one is forcing you to go there. You want to be a master pilot? Then you willingly go there knowing that it will be tough, and hard.
I don't understand why having every player make Master (in any class) is a right? It should be a reward for someone that went that extra mile, and got the reward for working hard, not something that is so common it means nothing anymore.
How many aces are there? Very few, and they are feared everywhere because they are better then others, and I think that having every other player be that level demineshes the experience.
I could, and do, say the same about Jedi - there should be very very few, if any.
No offense, but that makes no sense...
They create the professions with the mindset that people will master them, so to say being master is a privelege you need to earn doesn't really play out. When they were creating the profession, I'm sure they did so with the assumption that everyone who took it would likely try to/want to master it, especially since it doesn't require traditional skill points. If they wantedyou to sacrifice, they'd have made it so it took skill points that way you'd have to drop ground masteries in order to master pilot, then it'd be a real sacrifice. Opening someone up to something they don't want to do isn't a challenge, it's just an aggrivation.
LOL You think you will be famous for mastering pilot?! OHH LOOK OUT, its a master pilot! Women will hurl themselves at your feet and people will bow before your l33tn3ss! You will be comparable to darth vader you d00d You! This is exactly the elitest attitude I was talking about in all my other posts. Its as if these people have some mental condition that requires them to exert how superior they are to all others in video games.
Reading comprehension just isn't your forte, huh?Let me put it this way - a way you can understand, besides monkey-talk, if you have 10 people with a master level in a class, those people will become celebreties. Lets compare them to einstien, ok? He was special, and was treated specially, because of that.
Same for masters, if the mastery was reserved for only a few people.
Again, and again and again, I am not going to be a master. I do not consider myself superior to almost anyone - you excluded because I can actually read what people write here - however, you seem to need to compensate for some RL issues that make it so important for you to show how bad assed you are - you HAVE to have that Master Pilot level.
Baalzvuv wrote:
Palad wrote:
Baalzvuv wrote:
No, the create the professions with the mindset that SOME people will master them, and those few will be well famous, or infamous for doing that. Having every second Character I see as a mster something or another doesn't fit. Not everyone can be best at stuff, thats why the few that are - are the best and should be renowned for that.
HeyHolo wrote:
Baalzvuv wrote:
Bloodshead wrote:
Arlianal wrote:
yup your right, its not fair, however, life isnt and no-one including the dev's care, so fight fire with fire, if you cant complete your master without going into pvp space, take 10 friends with you and gang bang thier ass just like they are trying to do to you.
Message Edited by Arlianal on 11-06-2004 04:17 PM
The point is we shouldnt HAVE to fight them. The devs completely ignored the 80% of the playerbase and basically lied to us AGAIN when they said pvp would be consentual in space. You shouldnt be forced into something that 80% of the SWG population DOES NOT enjoy when doing your PvE master mission.
But you donb't have to do it, no one is forcing you to go there. You want to be a master pilot? Then you willingly go there knowing that it will be tough, and hard.
I don't understand why having every player make Master (in any class) is a right? It should be a reward for someone that went that extra mile, and got the reward for working hard, not something that is so common it means nothing anymore.
How many aces are there? Very few, and they are feared everywhere because they are better then others, and I think that having every other player be that level demineshes the experience.
I could, and do, say the same about Jedi - there should be very very few, if any.
No offense, but that makes no sense...
They create the professions with the mindset that people will master them, so to say being master is a privelege you need to earn doesn't really play out. When they were creating the profession, I'm sure they did so with the assumption that everyone who took it would likely try to/want to master it, especially since it doesn't require traditional skill points. If they wantedyou to sacrifice, they'd have made it so it took skill points that way you'd have to drop ground masteries in order to master pilot, then it'd be a real sacrifice. Opening someone up to something they don't want to do isn't a challenge, it's just an aggrivation.
LOL You think you will be famous for mastering pilot?! OHH LOOK OUT, its a master pilot! Women will hurl themselves at your feet and people will bow before your l33tn3ss! You will be comparable to darth vader you d00d You! This is exactly the elitest attitude I was talking about in all my other posts. Its as if these people have some mental condition that requires them to exert how superior they are to all others in video games.
Reading comprehension just isn't your forte, huh?Let me put it this way - a way you can understand, besides monkey-talk, if you have 10 people with a master level in a class, those people will become celebreties. Lets compare them to einstien, ok? He was special, and was treated specially, because of that.
Same for masters, if the mastery was reserved for only a few people.
Again, and again and again, I am not going to be a master. I do not consider myself superior to almost anyone - you excluded because I can actually read what people write here - however, you seem to need to compensate for some RL issues that make it so important for you to show how bad assed you are - you HAVE to have that Master Pilot level.
Lmao, you really are whacked if you think you will become a celebrity just by having that title. All it means is that you are a powergamer plaing 20 hours a day to master before anyone else. Then to keep your celebrityness you must go and greif all others from getting master pilot. You people make me sick, you have to ruin one person's enjoyment for the sake of your "coolness" Oh ya im going to totally love a master dic.....k *cough* ace pilot. Get over yourself, this game wasnt made to revolve around you.
Zacrobmer wrote:
QBallz wrote:
Seriously anyone who says the pvp system is fine the way it is, is pretty much a griefer. If you look at the other arguments on this board, you can see that pretty much the only people defendingthe current systemcannot make a coherent argument and result to attacking the person's character.
If the player is camping Hyperspace points, then yes its griefing, If your flying around Kessel and someone kills you,youshould have been paying attention.
I just got a response from a CSR in game and was told that zone camping is NOT considered harrassment and therefore no action would be taken. This means that SOE supports the actions of those who get a group of 8-10 players and sit at the zone in point in kessel and jump folks who are zoning in.
If I get jumped while flying around kessel, that is my fault. If I get jumped while zoning in to do a mission in a PvP zone that I don't even want to be in, that is stupidity.
There is no advantage to forcing people to enter a PvP zone. It serves no purpose. I have heard folks say that it makes getting master harder so that you have to be a better pilot to get there. That is pure bullsh*t. Having a group of immature players camp the zone in and prey on defenseless players is only creating a bad taste in the mouths of the serious players. I say defenseless because when you are zoning in and get jumped you literally are defenseless.
I can handle myself in PvP, and I can even handle NOT being able to handle myself against some opponents. What is pushing me to the edge here is that the system as it is just DOES NOT WORK.
I hope we see a fix for all of this soon, preferably moving the master missions OUT of PvP zones.
If you are going to force people topvp then make a pvp system that works, the ability to one or two shot someone in an MMORPG is generally not a good pvp system. This is basically MMORPG Counterstrike in space where everyone has an AWP. The only problem with this is that 90% of the time your trying to kill an NPC for a stupid mission, and have it fail because someone flys in and one shots you.
So you think that all MMORPG's should be all carbon copies of each other? Get a wing man or three to cover your back. I guess we could introduce ship buffs, DOT blasters(your ships bleeding!), and 90% composite, and 75% damage reduction, so that the dogfights will take 30 minutes to kill someone, gee that would be fun...
This is basically griefing at it's finest. Just look at Ultima Online, same exact problem, you where trying to kill an NPC and get ganked by some PKer. It was griefing then, and it is griefing now, and there is pretty much no way to defend it other than that you get off from causing grief to other players.
See reply two....and I'm going to follow with "my" idea of a good Kessel system.....
Getting one shotted is not exciting or fun.
One shotting someone is not exciting or fun nor is it "challenging".
There is no skill involved in one shotting someone from behind.
There is no skill involved in camping hyperspace points.
Depends on which end your on...
Yes it is because you earned those 4k blasters, you'll have the same ability if you make master....
Shall they tap you on the shoulder, and say "pardon me turning around so I could shoot you from the front?"
And I absolutley agree with you on this, these players are chickensh!t...and should be reported and banned.
See my comment above, this is considered acceptable by SOE according to CSRBeverly
This form of grief has existed in other MMORPG and in all cases the PvP system was either heavily modified or a PvP "Switch" was implemented. The reason is basically that the ability to grief without consequence ruins the game for everyone but the griefers, and causes people to quit.
I remember with the launch of SWG people whining about the same thing, "whycan that TKM/ Master brawler whatever, kill me so quick, I'm a 1111 marksman I should be able kill them in one shot" you can insert any profession in to this quote, what did it due they nerfed every decent proffesion. The same thing going to happen again, and space PvP is going to turn into the pure crap that is the ground PvP. Why do you think a combat revamp in the works, because the whol sytem is crap. If you feel someone is griefing you /report them, have you friends report them, have you whole guild report them, some will take notice.
Lets so how many people grief this post.
I'm not griefing your post just tired of all the whining, there is no way to make everyone happy, its impossible, I hate griefing as much as you, I just think one shot kills are griefing, camping yes absolutly. All I can say is group up, get a few wingmen and watch your back....Your balance is another players injustice.
Here's my Idea fro Kessel tell me what you think..........
While, I don't really agree, that you should be forced to PVP to get the Ace title, I do believe that it should not be auto
matically construed as griefing. If I'm an Imp ( and I am) if I'm out in Kessel with my Squadron, and I see a gunship being attacked by some rebs I will defend that gunboat, just as I'd expect the Rebs to defend a Nova or Corvette.... I do believe that if your sitting in a known spawn point waiting for some players just to keep them from accomplishing their mission then yes it would be griefing and should be reported.
There should be a 30 second or 1 minute "grace period" for players jumping into Kessel or deep space just so they have time to load, some people take longer then others....besides anyone who kills some who's loading is chickensh!t anyways.
I've seen all over these forums and in game for the last year and a half, people crying for the GCW, I believe with JTL we finally really have it.
I propose these changes, to the Ace title...
1. Phase One
a. Purely PvE, have 2 or 3 really hard long missions (I'm talking you'll probably need a group). You can't be attacked by the other players, and they can not attack your mission objective, unless they are the same faction.
b. You are however free game to the opposing faction NPC's.
2. Phase Two
a. PvP, pure and simple have a set number of players you must kill, 10, 20, what ever, If you log your kills are saved
i.e You kill three one evening, you need 7 more.....
b. Have combined PvE/PVP, Scenario, you jump to Kessel and recieve the Mission objective A Star Destroyer's hyperdrive is damaged: Defend the Star Destroyer until it can repair its hyperdrive, say 15-30 minutes.
When you get there the Destroyer has a compliment of 5 or so tier 4 TIE's and maybe a bomber or two.
Also once you get there a spawn of Rebs appear, say 4 A-wings a 4 wings and a few B-wings all tier 4, the second
wave consists of a Nova and its escort of 4 A-wings and 4 X-wings. Now here's when it gets good when you receive your Mission message all the other Imperials players get a distress call, giving the closest hyper space point, but the catch is so do the Rebs.....Of course the Rebs/ Privateers get the same type of mission.
b. Again you are free game to opposing faction NPC's.
just an idea.............