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Thread: JEDI STARFIGHTER The reason why it's complete BS in how anyone obtains it
Ducimus wrote:
KJFett3 wrote:
(Tier 1) Heavy TIE Fighter: 50k Resources ~95k mass [SP: 1 Gun] 1 missile [Spdx 0.98 Acc 50 Dec 50 Pitch 500 Yaw 500 Roll 250]
Instead of 2 15K mass guns in the JSF, you can put in one single 35K mass gun. The TIE fighter is still a good ship...you just have to get a Hvy, instead of one of those National Guard junk heaps.
Point was?
If i had a ship with 90K mass and 2 mounts vs a ship with 95K mass and 1 mount.
Well, i wouldnt be putting twin L7's (your 15K estimate) into it. hell, ive had T/A's (65K mass) equped with an L8 paired with L7 gun. Give me a 90K mass chassis, and ill have twin L8's in it for sure.
Best you can do for the Heavy tie is a L10. Lowest you can RE those down is about 43K mass which is quite doable. Still, i dont have to do the math to know that twin L8's does alot more damage then a single L10.
My point was clear, you just chose not to see it. Not my fault..it is the readers responsibility. 
Not all of us fly without armor either. I was showing how the TIE hvy and the JSF can be similar in abilities...not better than the JSF, but not vastly outdone. That is all.
!
Anyways, I agree that the ARC and JSF should be usable by anyone without doing the quest just like the Grievous fighter.
Prototype perhaps is a misleading term. Predecessor is more accurate. The logic you posted simply doesn't add up. It took the Empire 15-20 years to mass produce inferior versions of a superior fighter? That is basically what you are saying. Does that make sense? Perhaps to you it does based on your prototype example. Prototype typically signifies one model or a "select" few. All Jedi pilots, which i'm pretty sure was ALL of them at one time or another, flew the Jedi Starfighter. All of them. They all had their own.
It essentially comes down to this: technology does not fall backwards, especially in a universe with technology as complex as the star wars universe. To even think that astarfighter, staple of the imperial navy no less, would be inferior to a ship created 10-20 years earlier is a ridiculous notion and is reflected in the game with all of its ridiculousness culminated into the Actis Interceptor, the Belbullab 22 and the Arc-170.
KJFett3 wrote:
My point was clear, you just chose not to see it. Not my fault..it is the readers responsibility.Not all of us fly without armor either. I was showing how the TIE hvy and the JSF can be similar in abilities...not better than the JSF, but not vastly outdone. That is all.
Your wording seems a bit poor. I guess you mean to say that the JSF is not any better than a heavy tie? I think i already illustrated it is in my last post.You assume i dont put armor in my ships. I do. ALWAYS. Even if its just MK I armor without a reinforcment additive, i always put *SOME* armor in my ships. Im a hardcore wrench monkey. I can make anything work, as long as i farm enough parts to properly RE things.
Ultimatly, in the case of PvP, you dont need anything larger than a single RE'd L7 cannon assuming your target isn't using exploited shields. Your previously mentioned Twin L7's is more than adequate to smoke anyone in the first hit. If i had a JSF, i woudlnt be putting Twin L8 guns, id be equiping it with microchaff, L8 Engine, L8 shield, MKII IR, and so forth. yes true, a heavy tie does wonderfully, However rheres no denying the extra manuverably and firepower of the JSF vs a heavy tie. Also the gunlayout of the JSF vs the chinmount of a standard tie chassis gives the JSF a bit of an edge when comparing the two.
Hitting something the size of say an A wing, running EO4 with a 92+ speed engine with chinmounted guns is an excercise in trying to hit the eye of a needle with a needle. A gun arrangement with some kind of spread is desireable. If you were to guess that i have a beef with the JSF, your partially correct. I have a beef with ALL ROTW ships, because they're all over the top in one way or another.
Oikaleek wrote:
You are incorrect. The Jedi Starfighter IS the prototype for the TIE fighter. Ask Mr.Lucas. He will tell you. It was designed that way to show how the technology advanced to TIE's. Notice that they are very similar ships? And , also, the Republic USED the Jedi Starfighter, the Jedi Served the Republic, therefore, it was a republic ship. Just like the X-Wings predecessor...the ARC 170...which the clones used...I assume that is the one you are referring to.
And good luck fighting a JSF with your Krayt. It will fly circles around you then destroy you in two shots just like it can every other ship out there with the exception of maybe an A wing or Belbullab22. Packing a punch means nothing when you can't land a punch. I have 4 weapons on my B wing, all of em capable of taking any player ship out in 1 shot. Good luck landing a shot on a JSF with their manueverability.
I propose raising ALL of the old ships P/y/r stats to be inline or BETTER than the new quest ships. If nothing else, the SWs of the galaxies would be much happier because they could still build the best ships. And the quest rewards would still be great eye candy as well as being solid ships.
Bottom line is this, the JSF shouldn't be any better than a standard TIE fighter but is instead vastly superior to one.
Message Edited by Oikaleek on 06-20-2005 01:17 PM
Actually, the reason the Empire uses TIE Fightersis thatthey are cheap to produce. They aren't very technically advanced for that reason. Very few TIEs were even equipped with either a hyperdrive or even a Life Support System...hence the need for the Imperial TIE pilots to wear the space suit complete with Oxygen Supply. I do think the JSF and B22 are a little too good in PvP though.
Message Edited by Jason_Solo on 06-20-2005 09:09 PM
Yeah sure the technolagy may be more advanced but that doesnt make the tie a better ship. Tie's dont even have life support systems. The JSF was built primarily for jedi, and at the time, they wanted a quality fighter to keep the jedi alive in a fight. The TIE on the other had was built with the idea of swarming the enemy, not so much with keeping their pilots in the fight. So yes, the TIE is probably more advanced, but it just doesnt have as much invested in it. Also, considering that in game we dont have "old" and "new" technology, we just have what we loot and craft.
Oikaleek wrote:
Prototype perhaps is a misleading term. Predecessor is more accurate. The logic you posted simply doesn't add up. It took the Empire 15-20 years to mass produce inferior versions of a superior fighter? That is basically what you are saying. Does that make sense? Perhaps to you it does based on your prototype example. Prototype typically signifies one model or a "select" few. All Jedi pilots, which i'm pretty sure was ALL of them at one time or another, flew the Jedi Starfighter. All of them. They all had their own.
It essentially comes down to this: technology does not fall backwards, especially in a universe with technology as complex as the star wars universe. To even think that astarfighter, staple of the imperial navy no less, would be inferior to a ship created 10-20 years earlier is a ridiculous notion and is reflected in the game with all of its ridiculousness culminated into the Actis Interceptor, the Belbullab 22 and the Arc-170.
Rebelcapt wrote:
Yeah sure the technolagy may be more advanced but that doesnt make the tie a better ship. Tie's dont even have life support systems. The JSF was built primarily for jedi, and at the time, they wanted a quality fighter to keep the jedi alive in a fight. The TIE on the other had was built with the idea of swarming the enemy, not so much with keeping their pilots in the fight. So yes, the TIE is probably more advanced, but it just doesnt have as much invested in it. Also, considering that in game we dont have "old" and "new" technology, we just have what we loot and craft.
Oikaleek wrote:
Prototype perhaps is a misleading term. Predecessor is more accurate. The logic you posted simply doesn't add up. It took the Empire 15-20 years to mass produce inferior versions of a superior fighter? That is basically what you are saying. Does that make sense? Perhaps to you it does based on your prototype example. Prototype typically signifies one model or a "select" few. All Jedi pilots, which i'm pretty sure was ALL of them at one time or another, flew the Jedi Starfighter. All of them. They all had their own.
It essentially comes down to this: technology does not fall backwards, especially in a universe with technology as complex as the star wars universe. To even think that astarfighter, staple of the imperial navy no less, would be inferior to a ship created 10-20 years earlier is a ridiculous notion and is reflected in the game with all of its ridiculousness culminated into the Actis Interceptor, the Belbullab 22 and the Arc-170.
The problem here is, too many of you have it in your heads that 20 years is some huge issue in technology. Like OMG! 20 years have past! It has to be way better!
Reality is..no it doesn't. Look at some real world examples. The F-14 is a very good fighter. A bit old, but it still gets the job done well and the Navy still has some front line squadrons equipped with them. How old is the F-14? Suddenly 20 years isn't all that long. What about the F-16 or the F-15? How long was the A-10 used..how about the F-4 or going back even further..the P-51. Militaries use ships for a long time. The Empire is the same way. Look how little the Armor and weapons have changed.
The TIE was produced to be cheap. They cut all the corners they could to make it. It is totally possible that a ship deisgned to be cheap could be worse than a ship that was top of the line with the best engineer in the universe from 20 years before. Why is it possible? Because the engineers were told to keep it cheap. That the Navy had no need for a ship of the JSF's caliber. That they would rather have 1000 TIEs than 200 JSFs for the same cost. Its why the rebels had such a huge fighter advantage over the Empire. All that research went into Cap ships...which really haven't even evolved all that uch in the last 20 years. Some of the Cap ships used even today were old 20 years before during the clone wars.
Oikaleek wrote:
The problem with the Jedi Starfighter is not how it is obtained. The problem with the jedi starfighter is that it is WAY better than all other fighters in the game including the basic TIE fighter...you know, the ship that REPLACED it in the Imperial Navy. Just as the ARC-170 has better stats than the X-wing...the ship that replaced it. Got no griefs about the Belbullab though since I dont know of a ship that "replaced" it.
The JSF is Far from the best ship in game, the only thing it has going for it is its size. My vaksai for example, using the same parts from my jsf, preforms alot better with the exeption of having just the one gun. My krayt packs a punch capable of knocking a jsf outta comission in one hit if i aim it right. And the Tie didnt replace the JSF, It replaced the fighter used by the clones. JSF were used by the jedi order, not the entire republic fleet.
Also just because rebels have the certification for it DOES NOT mean their entitled to it. It is only there so that IF an imperial desides to go rebel they can take their reward ship with them.
Message Edited by Rebelcapt on 06-20-2005 02:33 PM
Ducimus wrote:
JediGohan wrote:
no it's not
I went Reb just to get the ARC
besides, Rebels have the A-Wing, this is the equivalent for Imps.
Tier 4) A-Wing: 80k Resources ~65k mass [SP: 1 Guns] 1 missile
[Spdx 1.0 Acc 40 Dec 60 Pitch 250 Yaw 250 Roll 125]
(Tier 4) Eta-2 Actis Interceptor (Jedi Starfighter):~90k mass [SP: 2 Guns] 1 missile
[Spdx 0.95 Acc 50 Dec 50 Pitch 600 Yaw 600 Roll 300]
(Tier 1) Heavy TIE Fighter: 50k Resources ~95k mass [SP: 1 Gun] 1 missile
[Spdx 0.98 Acc 50 Dec 50 Pitch 500 Yaw 500 Roll 250]
Thanks for bringing the real world technology into the picture...it only further proves my point.
The P-51... one of the most renowned aircraft ever produced....was horribly out of date within 20 years of its existance thanks to the invention of far superior jets. The original jet engine fighters, were all outclassed within 20 years by improved designs and TECHNOLOGY.
Punch Card computers were developed in the 40's. They were gone by the 70's...so it took a little longer /shrug. Either way the point is this: Technology advances forward, not backward. The fact that X-wings, Tie's and especially A and B wings (supposed to be the most advanced strike craft in the galaxy during this time period (well maybe not b's yet) are outclassed by the JSF, ARC and BB22, is simply inaccurate and ludicrous.
All of the stats on the old ships should get an upgrade in P/R/Y to reflect the advance in technology. Simple as this: If they Empire and Rebellion had access to ships such as the JSF and Arc etc, why bother developing the TIE , the X wing, the A or the B wing. All they needed to do was mass produce JSF's and Arcs...vastly superior ships according to the Developers of this game.
And dont give me this "cheaper" crap. That might work for the rebellion, though rebels tend to simply "take" the resources they need to produce their fleet, and the Empire had unlimited resources as depicted by their wealth of superior naval power.
Seloh
So what if the empire has unlimited resources, the fact is they used those resources to produce QUANITY NOT QUALITY. The standard tie is really not that great a ship. Yes their ISD's were better than the rebel rag tag fleet. but the individual fighters were not superior
Oikaleek wrote:
And dont give me this "cheaper" crap. That might work for the rebellion, though rebels tend to simply "take" the resources they need to produce their fleet, and the Empire had unlimited resources as depicted by their wealth of superior naval power.
Seloh