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Thread: Will space PvP damage change ?
Ducimus
Mon Feb 28, 2005 5:27 pm
#27
WO3 is a big problem and most people seem to realize it. But just for kicks, i figured id expand on the why it is. Two reasons:
- Spam blaster fire. Faster Time to kill PvE, = more parts per hour (if the loot god is feeling kind that day), = more credits over time. Dear WO3, my bank account wubs you
- Unlimited shielding.
Cap shunt to shield takes what you have in your cap and puts it to the shield. The more you have in your cap, the more goes to your shield. When was the last time you ever drained your cap any significant amount? Thanks to WO3, you ALWAYS have energy to shunt, unless of course you shunt again before your cap fully recharges.
The other big boner im thinking may be Reactor Overload.
Ohhh armor damage, repair it right away, no harm done. But this droid command is the base of a whole overload routine and negates many of the negatives. RO3 is what gives a ship infinite power. Its also why some folks like myself use stuff L1 reactors to save mass for more important things like L8 and L7 cannons in a 65K mass chassis. IF i acutally had to use a bigger reactor, i might not be able to do that. Kinda snowballs don't it? Its getting ugly now, maybe id better shut up before the devs acutaly start reading this crap
- Spam blaster fire. Faster Time to kill PvE, = more parts per hour (if the loot god is feeling kind that day), = more credits over time. Dear WO3, my bank account wubs you
- Unlimited shielding.
Cap shunt to shield takes what you have in your cap and puts it to the shield. The more you have in your cap, the more goes to your shield. When was the last time you ever drained your cap any significant amount? Thanks to WO3, you ALWAYS have energy to shunt, unless of course you shunt again before your cap fully recharges.
The other big boner im thinking may be Reactor Overload.
Ohhh armor damage, repair it right away, no harm done. But this droid command is the base of a whole overload routine and negates many of the negatives. RO3 is what gives a ship infinite power. Its also why some folks like myself use stuff L1 reactors to save mass for more important things like L8 and L7 cannons in a 65K mass chassis. IF i acutally had to use a bigger reactor, i might not be able to do that. Kinda snowballs don't it? Its getting ugly now, maybe id better shut up before the devs acutaly start reading this crap
xTekx
Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:06 am
#28
I would definately go along with that idea. that's what i thought it would be like before JTL came out since it was supposed to follow the xwing sims..
Ducimus
Tue Mar 01, 2005 2:12 pm
#29
>>I would prefer to take away cross cluster exchange of them
Im inclined for a kneee jerk response, buti ll wait for the the whole proposal. I will say though, that i think the devs (and its kinda obvious) put in droid programs to take the place of the old system. (for reasons we can only guess).
Each profession has programs than contain partial functionalty of what pilots used to be able to do , on their own under as a whole the Sim/XvT system. So taking away partial functionalty permenalty gives me bad vibes to say the least, and poses entire new list of balance issues.
Im inclined for a kneee jerk response, buti ll wait for the the whole proposal. I will say though, that i think the devs (and its kinda obvious) put in droid programs to take the place of the old system. (for reasons we can only guess).
Each profession has programs than contain partial functionalty of what pilots used to be able to do , on their own under as a whole the Sim/XvT system. So taking away partial functionalty permenalty gives me bad vibes to say the least, and poses entire new list of balance issues.
X-Rebel
Tue Mar 01, 2005 2:30 pm
#30
I personaly dont think there is a problem with the programs. The only people i hear complain about them are the aces that are bored with the game and think its to easy. Everything i have read to this point is as someone puts it a knee jerk thing.
If you think there is a problem the only thing i think it is. I should not be able to use tier3 programs at teir1. I didnt know i could do think until just the other day. Someone asked me why i was asking for tier1 programs when i could use tier3 already. The cross cut use of the programs is a good idea but lvl restrict them, because asatier2 with lvl 3 programs i was able to take on tier4's no agro's of choose but i was able to reguardless. So i restricted myself from useing the lvl3 programs and made myself use tier 2.
Now again i have to say i like the system like it is. I would not like to see any changes. If i am right about the Ace's being bored with the game being to easy(which i feel i am) lol. Then just dont use them make the game harder for yourself. Instead of making it harder for everyone else. LOL but that like saying Dont do Drug to a Drug addict isn't it. So think about everyone else instead of yourself. Soi am sorryif i offended anyone.
Tumbler2002
Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:13 pm
#31
Ducimus wrote:
>>I would prefer to take away cross cluster exchange of them
Im inclined for a kneee jerk response, buti ll wait for the the whole proposal. I will say though, that i think the devs (and its kinda obvious) put in droid programs to take the place of the old system. (for reasons we can only guess).
Each profession has programs than contain partial functionalty of what pilots used to be able to do , on their own under as a whole the Sim/XvT system. So taking away partial functionalty permenalty gives me bad vibes to say the least, and poses entire new list of balance issues.
I am interested to see what gameplay would be like if each faction could only use their droid programs.
In the Star Wars universe the Imperials were all about firepower and numbers. They had great guns on a cheap mass produced ship. The rebels traded firepower for shields and survivability. The free lancers have programs that emphasize a balanced approach, upgrading the core systems so they don't excel in shields or guns but can bring both to the table.
The special commands for each faction back these concepts up. Rebels get refit and repair ability, shield management and Defensive powers in general. Imperials get firepower bonus's, reactor pumping, nebula blasts, bomberstrikes, and Aggressive abilities in general. Freelancers get a little bit of both, they have a electric blast and a pirate strike, a iff target scramble and have abilities that are balanced benefits in general.
I'd be the first to mourn the loss of such programs as Reactor overload, capacitor overload, and cap to shield shunt BUT it would give me back the edge I was supposed to have in the first place, firepower! As for freelancers, take joy in knowing that you will never be short on reactor energy like imperial and rebel pilots will be. Rebels take joy in knowing that you will have superior shields and last longer in combat...(Assuming that things balance out and you don't just blow up fast as before)
psikobunny
Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:43 am
#32
Instead of taking away Droid Programs, I would prefer to take away cross cluster exchange of them, at least in a free and easy fashion. I have been cooking up a full bore Proposal that would effect Pilots, DE, Smugglers, and I want time to put the finishing touches on it, but I don't see the Programs as the issue, however free and easy access to the synergy of multiple programs is an issue.
Pseudopd
Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:57 pm
#33
UPA_INTIMIDATOR wrote:
You didnt see R2 tell Luke "No cant shunt power to the engines boss....Rebs cant do that"
You did, however, see Luke whine about not being able to go to Toshie Station to get some power converters...
How come THATS not in the game?
Baz Pseudopod
Anoshin
Fri Mar 04, 2005 2:43 am
#34
I personally think droid commands are fine, as well as blaser's maximum damage even in PvP zone. I sugesst new Level 10 shields has to be introduced. Large and heavy multiplayer ships should be able to carry heavy shields, not with 2500-3000 shield points, but with shields like gunboats have that can accept 10-20 direct blaster or cannon hits at least, which should correspond with 20000-30000 shields points. This shields should be too heavy to put into any type of fighters for sure, but I totallly agree with the poster that Space PvP combat should take 3-4 hits for the fighers dog-fight (Right as seen with the SW movies). Light PvP fighers (TIE Fighers, A-Wing) should blow up after a couple of direct hits, while heavy fighers (TIE Interceptor, X-Wing) should carry more shielding and therefore be able to sustain more hits.
I suggest this PvP issue has to be resolved through increase shield points of Level 9 or Level 10 shields tremendously. This should not be reflected on Space PvE collective or individual gameplay, as Master Pilots rarely do a lot of PvE.
I propose shielding to be changed so Level 9-10 shieds come in different masses for different types of PvP fighers Light mass, light energy consumption- Light shielding 3000-4000 points (for A-Wings, light TIE), medium mass, medium reactor drain - medium shielding 8000-15000 points (for medium fighers X-Wings,TIE Interceptior, Rihkxyrk and light MP ships - Krayt, Firespray, TIE Agressors, Y-Wings) and very heavy mass, high energy consumption - heavy shielding 20000-30000 points (for heavy MP ships - B-Wings, YT-1300, VT-49, YKL-37r)
I suggest this PvP issue has to be resolved through increase shield points of Level 9 or Level 10 shields tremendously. This should not be reflected on Space PvE collective or individual gameplay, as Master Pilots rarely do a lot of PvE.
I propose shielding to be changed so Level 9-10 shieds come in different masses for different types of PvP fighers Light mass, light energy consumption- Light shielding 3000-4000 points (for A-Wings, light TIE), medium mass, medium reactor drain - medium shielding 8000-15000 points (for medium fighers X-Wings,TIE Interceptior, Rihkxyrk and light MP ships - Krayt, Firespray, TIE Agressors, Y-Wings) and very heavy mass, high energy consumption - heavy shielding 20000-30000 points (for heavy MP ships - B-Wings, YT-1300, VT-49, YKL-37r)
This will totally fix PvP combat problems. Frighter dog-fight will take 5-10 seconds depending on accuracy of pilot. Medium fighers will be able to take more damage and win because of tactics and maneuvers and it will take up to few minutes to shoot down heavy multiplayer vessel - as it should be in real life.
As to droid commands - here is my view of Freelance commads revamp:
As to droid commands - here is my view of Freelance commads revamp:
- Capacitor Overcharge - capacitor hitpoints has to be drained at constant rate correspondin with the level of command untli the capacitor is disabled or Capacitor Normalize command executed.
- Reactor Overcharge - same as capacitor - reactor hitpoints has to be drained until it is disabled or Normalize command is executed (make sense guys, is it not?)
- Capacitor to Shield- Shield should be shield points should not be immediatelly restored, but recharging rate shoud be dramatically improved until capacitor energy is empty or shield fully charged. As if you are fireing into your shields - make sence guysm shields need time to create a shield around a ship, It can't happen instantly. So when the command is initialized the capacitor energy should start moving into shields, hense lowering capactior energy and increading shield. This should be made at a rate, corresponding with command level, the higher the level of command - the faster energy is moved.
- Capacitor to Shield- Shield should be shield points should not be immediatelly restored, but recharging rate shoud be dramatically improved until capacitor energy is empty or shield fully charged. As if you are fireing into your shields - make sence guysm shields need time to create a shield around a ship, It can't happen instantly. So when the command is initialized the capacitor energy should start moving into shields, hense lowering capactior energy and increading shield. This should be made at a rate, corresponding with command level, the higher the level of command - the faster energy is moved.
Ramona_Garcia
Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:01 am
#35
Hmm... I'd not call a TIE Interceptor a medium fighter, since it has 50K mass to theA-Wing's 65K. And with 190K mass a Rikhxyrk is a heavy fighter in my eyes, not a medium.
In any case, people seem to forget that they have to hit those pesky lightfighters first, which can take a long time. I have had a dogfight between a TIE Interceptor and an A-Wing last 5 to 10 minutes, thanks to Cap to Shield Shunt negating the glancing hits that were achieved, and the use of asteroids as cover during the engagement.
Multis should have much heavier shielding - hitting them is very, very easy.
Anoshin
Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:14 am
#36
Totally agree with you, regarding the Interceptor. And it is an excellent point that I have missed - light and fast fighter first has to be hit!
JamesBenson
Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:00 am
#37
I don't have time to read all of the responses thus far, but I'm an Imperial squadron leader in my guild with over twenty pilots under my command. I've arranged space pvp battles in the past and I've been playing star wars flight sims since the days of X-Wing (though I'm an old-school TIE Fighter pilot).
To get around the issues with pvp, both my squadron and the rebel one chose to create certain rules to follow (and it worked surprisingly well). Our main rule was that we could only use level 3 weapons. Also, we did not use weapon overload (but all other droid commands were acceptable). Under these two rules (we had more..such as methods of testing for cheaters and whatnot before the battle) we had a lot of fun until the npcs in Deep Space crashed the party. Using my normal weapons, without weapon overload, I could do a max of 8.3k damage per shot. With the level 3 weapons, I could only do around 1.8k max. What I would recommend (and have recommended several times), rather than altering any of the droid commands is to lower space pvp damage by 50-60%. Perhaps even negate the effects of weapon overload in pvp, but I don't think I would go that far. When we forced ourselves to lower the damage, it was a fun experience (even if we did lose..we neglected to make a rule that the rebels could only use two weapons max and they were flying X-Wings). Individual dogfights lasted several shots..definitely long enough for the person being shot to evade or call for help. At any rate, that is my suggestion. Lower space pvp damage by 60%.
If you need any more credentials (I noticed several people were breaking out the measuring stick), I was a beta tester for JTL and I've been playing SWG since August 2003. I've only mastered once (because I can't drop my skills since I'm the squadron leader and I honestly don't need more imp ace helmets or jackets since they look stupid when I wear them).
To get around the issues with pvp, both my squadron and the rebel one chose to create certain rules to follow (and it worked surprisingly well). Our main rule was that we could only use level 3 weapons. Also, we did not use weapon overload (but all other droid commands were acceptable). Under these two rules (we had more..such as methods of testing for cheaters and whatnot before the battle) we had a lot of fun until the npcs in Deep Space crashed the party. Using my normal weapons, without weapon overload, I could do a max of 8.3k damage per shot. With the level 3 weapons, I could only do around 1.8k max. What I would recommend (and have recommended several times), rather than altering any of the droid commands is to lower space pvp damage by 50-60%. Perhaps even negate the effects of weapon overload in pvp, but I don't think I would go that far. When we forced ourselves to lower the damage, it was a fun experience (even if we did lose..we neglected to make a rule that the rebels could only use two weapons max and they were flying X-Wings). Individual dogfights lasted several shots..definitely long enough for the person being shot to evade or call for help. At any rate, that is my suggestion. Lower space pvp damage by 60%.
If you need any more credentials (I noticed several people were breaking out the measuring stick), I was a beta tester for JTL and I've been playing SWG since August 2003. I've only mastered once (because I can't drop my skills since I'm the squadron leader and I honestly don't need more imp ace helmets or jackets since they look stupid when I wear them).
Ramona_Garcia
Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:14 am
#38
Well, t fixing weapon overload 3 will reduce the damage done - not everyone will be able to run it when using 2 or 3 weapons, and even with Capacitor overload you won't be able to fire constantly.
truewildman
Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:59 am
#39
I sure as hell hope so! Need fun fights, not too long, not too short.