Jump To Lightspeed Archive
Thread: PVP in JTL isnt fun and more
Our next event should be this Saturday afternoon/evening. The Imperials have won the last few battles, so I'm sure the Rebels wouldn't mind another pilot, even if he's flying a Z-95, but either side's fine. If you or anybody else wants to give it a shot, contact one of the guys I mentioned in my other post or me (Tomo) and we'll help you get set up and involved in some serious PVP.
Skill matters. 2-shot kills don't matter if you never get hit in the first place.
If damage were reduced to where it took as many shots to kill us as it does an NPC, the true A-Wing and Advanced aces will never die. It's almost impossible to hit them as-is, and if they're able to soak 10 or even 5 shots, there's no way to line up that many consecutive hits on them before they shunt their shields back. A dogfight between a skilled A-Wing and a skilled Advanced could go on till the server dropped.
This is the kind of stuff that prompts the calls to learn to fly. The learning curve in space PVP is extremely steep, and once you've put in a dozen one on ones or a couple serious melees I don't think you're going to think about it the same way you do now.
nawchir wrote:
Where do you ppl get off saying learn to fly? I dont understand why you all keep saying that. It has nothing to do with learning how to fly or learning to aim. it still all goes down to 2 shots and your dead. No skill or anything. Most ppl dont fly in head on and try to attack someone. If they do then they are pretty dumb. For some they do try to come from behind oe from the side, but 2 shots and your gone thats just BS. PVP is not perfect. Roughly when you fight a tier 5 ship (which is considered on our lvl) it takes a considerable amount of firing to get it disabled or exploded. That should be applied to PVP but with a slight curve in damage. Plus ive noticed that most IMP pilots say the PVP is where it needs to be. Most IMP pilots can use the Bomb strike move on ya as well so sometimes PVP is shorter than you thought cause you didnt even know you got attacked, and dont say you cant use that attack in Deep space cause I have plenty of IMP master pilot friends who use it all the time cause they think its funny to use it and the other person doesnt know they got attacked.
You have obviously not PvP'd in space. On any game. XvT/XWA whatever. Flying takes skill. If you can't understand that then i'd be glad to show you. Send me a /tell since i'm on your server and i'll show you that once two overts of opposing factions spot each other the first part of the attack is a head to head pass. don't believe me? go overt in space and come find me. i'm overt everytime I fly. you will never catch me off guard so I will be heading straight towards you when you see me. hence the head to head pass.
Message Edited by UPA_INTIMIDATOR on 02-28-2005 02:27 PM
GrupertRHD wrote:
Tumbler2002 wrote:
GlargTheKelfn wrote:
pvp in jtl is damn near perfect.
Can you explain why it is so perfect? And why Deep space is always empty? If it was perfect then people would be using it no? I go up to deep space a lot and I've seen mabye 5 friendly ships and 1 enemy ship the entire time. (never more than 1 at a time though) Not saying that there aren't more ppl going in there, but I just don't understand how anyone can think the pvp in jtl is perfect.
I see a lot of comments like this but no one seems to back it up with any examples.
Most people that play rpgs are not into pvp, and, depending on your source, the % of people that pvp is very small, 5%-10%. That is why pvp zones are empty.
I used to play AO a long time ago, and they had a survey about pvp, those that were into it amounted to about 7%-10% of the subscriber base.
And you have answered your own question, the example you ask for are those comments, pvp is fine as it is in JTL.
About a year ago, the SWG Devs put up a poll to see how many people actually PvP'd on a regular basis. They also published the stats of how many Overts, Coverts, and Neutrals there were in the game.
What it all boiled down to is that only a very small portion of the population (1 to 5%) are fully into PvP. The rest are content with PvE factional, or even just to go about their business.
Thus, the recent changes to the GCW. They are catering to the 90% of the population who don't wish to fight other players, but wish to kill factional NPCs. This is also the reason you don't see Deep Space heavily populated. Just because you have a bunch of posters on the boards complaining about a certain feature of the game, doesn't mean that 90% of the population agrees with them.
In this case, I agree with the Devs and the recent changes. I think the PvP in JTL is right on, and I think they are taking the correct path for the GCW. Allowing more people to participate in a given area is ALWAYS good business sense when it comes to online gaming and a broader customer satisfaction.
xTekx wrote:
HardwiredXMan wrote:
Yes if your looking for pvp and pvp only, you will have players targeted and ready to go and probably end up jousting...but that's only 1/3 of being overt in space. Everyone who goes overt in space is not looking to "ONLY" pvp. Sure being overt means you will have to pvp and I understand that...but what I'm talking about is the other aspects of pvp. When your engaged with npc ships and most of the time surrounded by them.....if a player comes along and catches you like this, your dead no matter what....in most cases your dead and didn't even see the shots.
- if you go overt to get fp in space then that's the risk you take. nothing can change that. If you don't want to die at the hands of another player then don't go overt. that's it. if i'm in a dog fight it doesn't matter if i'm surrounded with NPC's. Player comes first because of the threat level to them. NPC's can do damage, but not at the rate of a player.
****EDIT****
ok, had to edit the post, getting a little too long.
Anyway, You clearly misunderstood a lot of what I was saying. Plus you clearly keep looking at every situation as if it was all about the pvp aspect only....everything you said all boiled down to "LOOKING FOR OTHER OVERT PLAYERS". It's not always about what you deserve if your overt and not looking or your unaware....that is purely a PVP aspect that is based solely on the fact that you are looking to find someone to fight. In space, PVE and PVP are one in the same but greatly unbalanced. However, my statements were a mix of hypethical situations, my own experiences and other poeples experiences that I've witnessed. No matter how you look at the situation.....JTL dogfighting does not exist as it should. IF you really want to understand what I'm talking about, go play any other space game other than XWA. Then come back to JTL and you will see the difference as far as the controls and pvp goes. It's simply much more fun when both people invloved in an engagement can do a little bit more during fight.....just a few more hits to kill someone and a little less instagib style and that's when the truely skilled players are set apart from the players with the illusion of skill (those that hide behind the one hit kill shots).
It's ok, though, I'm tired of discussing it really....fact is, noone is in space pvp'ing like they are on the ground....so in my opinion, its not as good as people think if people aren't doing it......So what's the reason then? It sure isn't the content because there was no content for GCW on the ground for the longest, but people still did it.
OH and by the way, the left and right lag thing was exaggerated just a bit...It might not be a full 2 or 3 seconds....but even in an a-wing there is a slight pause when you go one direction, change to another and go back to the previous direction....it's harder to tell in the faster ships (still happens in them though, but easier to compensate)....but the slower ships do it a hell of a lot more....I personally think it's too much inertia....most games give you an option to adjust the inertia..but JTL doesn't.
Also, the only ship that really requires any skill to pilot is the b-wing in my opinion....you truely have to be a master to pilot that tug boat effeciently....I can fly all the other ships with my eyes closed...hehe Ok, so I peak every once in a while 
HardwiredXMan wrote:
xTekx wrote:
HardwiredXMan wrote:
Yes if your looking for pvp and pvp only, you will have players targeted and ready to go and probably end up jousting...but that's only 1/3 of being overt in space. Everyone who goes overt in space is not looking to "ONLY" pvp. Sure being overt means you will have to pvp and I understand that...but what I'm talking about is the other aspects of pvp. When your engaged with npc ships and most of the time surrounded by them.....if a player comes along and catches you like this, your dead no matter what....in most cases your dead and didn't even see the shots.
- if you go overt to get fp in space then that's the risk you take. nothing can change that. If you don't want to die at the hands of another player then don't go overt. that's it. if i'm in a dog fight it doesn't matter if i'm surrounded with NPC's. Player comes first because of the threat level to them. NPC's can do damage, but not at the rate of a player.
****EDIT****
ok, had to edit the post, getting a little too long.
Anyway, You clearly misunderstood a lot of what I was saying. Plus you clearly keep looking at every situation as if it was all about the pvp aspect only....everything you said all boiled down to "LOOKING FOR OTHER OVERT PLAYERS". It's not always about what you deserve if your overt and not looking or your unaware....that is purely a PVP aspect that is based solely on the fact that you are looking to find someone to fight. In space, PVE and PVP are one in the same but greatly unbalanced. However, my statements were a mix of hypethical situations, my own experiences and other poeples experiences that I've witnessed. No matter how you look at the situation.....JTL dogfighting does not exist as it should. IF you really want to understand what I'm talking about, go play any other space game other than XWA. Then come back to JTL and you will see the difference as far as the controls and pvp goes. It's simply much more fun when both people invloved in an engagement can do a little bit more during fight.....just a few more hits to kill someone and a little less instagib style and that's when the truely skilled players are set apart from the players with the illusion of skill (those that hide behind the one hit kill shots).
It's ok, though, I'm tired of discussing it really....fact is, noone is in space pvp'ing like they are on the ground....so in my opinion, its not as good as people think if people aren't doing it......So what's the reason then? It sure isn't the content because there was no content for GCW on the ground for the longest, but people still did it.
OH and by the way, the left and right lag thing was exaggerated just a bit...It might not be a full 2 or 3 seconds....but even in an a-wing there is a slight pause when you go one direction, change to another and go back to the previous direction....it's harder to tell in the faster ships (still happens in them though, but easier to compensate)....but the slower ships do it a hell of a lot more....I personally think it's too much inertia....most games give you an option to adjust the inertia..but JTL doesn't.
Also, the only ship that really requires any skill to pilot is the b-wing in my opinion....you truely have to be a master to pilot that tug boat effeciently....I can fly all the other ships with my eyes closed...hehe Ok, so I peak every once in a while
I understood perfectly well what you said. You basically said there's no skill involved in flying, aiming. You basically said that JTL sucks. I don't think it does. All my points are valid. And yes my points revolve around pvp. But if you can do well PvP'ing, then you will have no problem what so ever in PvE.
And yes if you go overt then then be prepared to fight a player. I can't say that any more clearly. It doesn't matter if you want to or not. That is part of going overt.
Ok, game other then XWA. I played XvT for 2 years. There were one hit kills in that game. They were with TF, but one hit kills no less. And try not to forget. Not all pvp encounters end with 1 hit kills. In MY experience that hasn't happened very often. 2 hits is more hte norm for me. Sometimes 3. I fought an Oppressor today and the guy flew awesome. Had a good 60 second fight and I ended up being taken out in 3 hits. But it doesn't matter since you can't seem to understand what i'm saying.
If you experience lag in your reactions, I again say check your settings. Because I don't have any.
So with that i'll just go back to flying in space and enjoying pvp the way it is, win or lose. I'd offer to go up against you on your server but it doesn't matter since I know you'll say it won't prove a thing or whatever.
Message Edited by Kitten_Starsider on 03-01-2005 06:24 AM