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Thread: Should Weapons being brought down a bit in PvP?
Tumbler2002 wrote:
I've seen many folks talk about how you can learn to fly and out manuever your enemy and frankly it's bull. Currently a properly outfitted Oppressor or Awing or any ship with enough firepower can slow to 50% throttle and open up on his guns, there is simply no way you will ever get behind him and he will never stop firing. Anytime you complete a manuever and line up for a shot, he's already lined up and firing on you. There is no way to zip past him and get behind him because he'll already be turned and shooting at you. And if one volly lands you're toast.
So how do you deal with a player who just opens up on guns and chops throttle to 50% and is a good shot? You run away I suppose, but it doesn't make for very interesting combat.
/sigh not this again....Tumbler...you REALLY need to learn how to fly.
Manuver, manuver, manuver!!!! Why does everyone think it's always about getting on a bad guys tail and taking him out?! That "circle-jerk" dance is for NPCs and rookie pilots who don't know any better. It works sometimes but why limit yourself to this tactic?!! I love when people try to do this to me..especially if I'm flying with a wingman. I'll turn all day long...get you into the circle-jerk and my wingman will swoop in and dust you before you know what is happeneing.
If you can bet behind your bogie then do it. If you can't then guess what? Time to try a different tactic. Try to break right, dive, kill the engines for a split second then go to full throttle, roll left, climb. If you did it right your bad guy will be in your sights but he won't see you. He'll think you're still following him around like an idiot. This is just one of MANY MANY manuvers you can try. Use astroids for cover, make him chase you, fake him out, lure him into some NPCs. Get with a friend and practice. It will just be like a game of tag because you won't be able to hurt each other but it will show you how moving your ship will help you. A simple roll can sometimes put you on target. So it's not bull. You just need to learn how to fly and learn what your ship can do.
And hearing you say better shields are needed in pvp is hilarious. Shields at best may stop one of the 2 blasters hitting you from my own oppressor but that 2nd shot will eat u alive. I get one shotted a lot and every ship I kill save extremely heavy ships like the KSE, Bwing, or M22 all go down in one volley. There have been battles where I took more than one shot, or my opponent did but they are just freak occurances. Vast majority are settled with one good shot.
And this is a problem how? In SW space combat people get oneshoted. I get oneshoted, you get oneshoted, everybody gets oneshoted. Shields fail. It happens and is a fact of life for space combat. What do you want? 10k shields and 2k max damage weapons so everyone can play nice together and hold hands while they fly? If that's the case where is the paint kit so I can put flowers and rainbows on the side of my ship?
Screw that. Space is harsh. You adapt or you die. You have to want to get better. Lazy pilots want the Devs to hand them a kinder gentler JTL. REAL pilots learn to fly and work with what they have.
This is not the ground game where 2 PVPers can battle non-stop for 20 min. This is twitch based, real time combat. It's quick and deadly. Get usee to it. You keep talking about how this needs to change and that is too weak or too hard. Let me ask you this.....why is it that I can take my TIE Advanced with no armor and weak as hell shields and do very well in not just the PVP world but the PVE world also? Why is it that I can solo a vette with that little bucket? Why is it that I can solo the reb space station? Is it because I have great shields and big guns? No..it's because I'm a effing damn good pilot and I know how to move my ship and NOT get hit. And guess what...I'm not the only pilot like that. There are amazing pilots is KSEs (the worst PVP ship IMHO) who would rip even the best pilot to shreads. There are pilots in Z-95s and regular TIEs who could teach you a lesson. Hell, I've been gunned down by a Y-wing. And not a Longprobe..just a regular old y-wing. Did that pilot get lucky? Was I not paying attention? Nope....he was better than me and kicked my butt all the way back to the space station. He was a GOOD pilot and he served me up a nice big slice of humble pie...in a Y-Wing!!!!
I'm so tired of this argument and tired of trying to be helpful and play nice with "pilots" like you. JTL will not be "even" or "balanced". It can't be. It's based on player skill and player skills will always be different no matter what the damage is on your guns or the stats on your shields.
You are not a good pilot. Period. You have proven that in the first paragraph of this post. So if you keep crying about damage in space and it gets "fixed"...you'll still be a bad pilot. As a matter of fact you will probably get worse. Stop whining about it and learn to fly. That's it. Get better or stay on the ground. But then again...you might be able to stay in space and make a name for yourself as a minner.
Space is not perfect. MP ships need more power, some droid commands need fixing. Shields could be stronger at level 10. But the damage and the combat is about as close to perfect as it can get.
Ducimus wrote:
I dont think making a kill or not should be decided by the use of missles. But hey if it ever works out that way, me and the Tie oppressor tell death do us part!
Imaridril wrote:
Ducimus wrote:
2.) As it is currenlty if PvP damage were to be toned down, here's what would happen between two pilots with a clue:
a.) Dance with each other from anywhere between 30 seconds to 5 minutes.
b.) someone gets lucky and scores a hit.
c.) The pilot who was just hit shunts his shields back to 100%.
d.) Goto A. Rinse and repeat ad nasuem until someone gives up and hyper's away.
The above scenario is really only a possibility if both players aren't using missiles or if both are out of missiles.
I'm not saying that missiles should be the only deciding factor, but when talking about theoretical light fighter vs light fighter battles, its not fair to leave them out. Gun kills are supposed to be hard against a light fighter, espeicially if you're flying a fighter that has a tight fire pattern, such as another light fighter. When discussing weather or not a further PvP damage reduction will make light fighter vs light fighter battles last too long we need to actually discuss two light fighters that are properly equipped. Depending on his setup, a light fighter pilot can make himself stronger against heavy fighter and weaker against light fighters, or vise versa. Take the A-wing for example: a lot of pilots choose to use an RE'd level 8 reward gun and no missiles. Such a setup is strong against heavy fighters, and in order to maintain balance it should be relatively weaker against other light fighters. On the other extreme, an A-wing pilot could choose to equipe a crafted .26 refire level 7 gun and a mark II image rec launcher. Such a setup is relatively weaker against heavy fighters, but at the same time its a much more adventageous setup for dog-fighting with another light fighter. A setup which would fall between those two extremes, would be an RE'd level 7 reward gun and a mark I or mark II image rec launcher. Such a setup is what we should be using when discussing how a further PvP reduction would impact light fighter vs. light fighter battles. In a fight between two fighters equiped like this, gun hits are going to be more common, due to the level 7 gun's faster refire vs. that of a level 8 gun, plus each pilot is going to have a good chance of scoring a missile hit or two against the other guy. If you include both of those things in the scenario, then I don't think we have to worry about never ending battles.
Sifer2 wrote:
I would'nt be so quick to just say learn how to fly. The guy talking about cutting throttle to 50% an Rapid firing for the win has a good point. With the system the way it is that tactic will often result in a win. I personally feel space combat is not balanced but that is just me. Yes player skill plays a large role but a system based mostly on one hit skills will always have a great factor of luck involved instead of pure skill. Its like playing an all Rockets game in most first person shooters.
In my opinion Heavy Fighters should have more Firepower, Armor,an greater Top Speed but not able to turn that well an have worse acceleration. Light Fighters would be just the opposite. The difference between the two right now is just not great enough. As for people saying one hit kills is like the Movies. Well just how many shots did the Millenium Falcon take before blowing up? Cause im pretty sure that if Han was up against the same Weapons we are that Movie would have been over fast.
Thats the same argument that always crops up. Hes a HERO he CANT DIE.
Take a look at how 20 imp troops opened up on him with blasters and every bolt went whistling by. Exactly the same thing. Almost the previous scene Obi-Wan is telling Luke what a precise shot imperial troops are.
If you want to see how normal ships faired check out the battle scene in ROTJ. There were Ties and rebs getting one-shot killed all over the place.
Remilliod wrote:
Sifer2 wrote:
I would'nt be so quick to just say learn how to fly. The guy talking about cutting throttle to 50% an Rapid firing for the win has a good point. With the system the way it is that tactic will often result in a win. I personally feel space combat is not balanced but that is just me. Yes player skill plays a large role but a system based mostly on one hit skills will always have a great factor of luck involved instead of pure skill. Its like playing an all Rockets game in most first person shooters.
In my opinion Heavy Fighters should have more Firepower, Armor,an greater Top Speed but not able to turn that well an have worse acceleration. Light Fighters would be just the opposite. The difference between the two right now is just not great enough. As for people saying one hit kills is like the Movies. Well just how many shots did the Millenium Falcon take before blowing up? Cause im pretty sure that if Han was up against the same Weapons we are that Movie would have been over fast.
Thats the same argument that always crops up. Hes a HERO he CANT DIE.
Take a look at how 20 imp troops opened up on him with blasters and every bolt went whistling by. Exactly the same thing. Almost the previous scene Obi-Wan is telling Luke what a precise shot imperial troops are.
If you want to see how normal ships faired check out the battle scene in ROTJ. There were Ties and rebs getting one-shot killed all over the place.
Calling me a bad pilot doesn't make it true
. I guess I'll keep blowing people up and see if I can't figure out ways to do things better. But currently "better flying" isn't going to fix the system.
Sifer2 wrote:
In my opinion Heavy Fighters should have more Firepower, Armor,an greater Top Speed but not able to turn that well an have worse acceleration. Light Fighters would be just the opposite. The difference between the two right now is just not great enough. As for people saying one hit kills is like the Movies. Well just how many shots did the Millenium Falcon take before blowing up? Cause im pretty sure that if Han was up against the same Weapons we are that Movie would have been over fast.
JediNg wrote:
What it comes down to, is some pilots are too inept to maneuvre properly with the right ships and all they want to do is to be able to joust each other head on slowly and take 10 shots at each other so that whoever has better equipment wins. Basically turning space pvp into ground pvp.
Had enough of this I'm too lazy to maneuvre crap. Just admit it and say you're an uninnovative, subpar, second-rate pilot.
not 10 shots but like 2-3 shoots will be good.. ( more than 5 shot will be sux)
like this oneshot kill(dead) there is no tactic... "im good pilot u are bad pilot " think is just b..l sh.t
fareone wrote:
JediNg wrote:
What it comes down to, is some pilots are too inept to maneuvre properly with the right ships and all they want to do is to be able to joust each other head on slowly and take 10 shots at each other so that whoever has better equipment wins. Basically turning space pvp into ground pvp.
Had enough of this I'm too lazy to maneuvre crap. Just admit it and say you're an uninnovative, subpar, second-rate pilot.
not 10 shots but like 2-3 shoots will be good.. ( more than 5 shot will be sux)
like this oneshot kill(dead) there is no tactic... "im good pilot u are bad pilot " think is just b..l sh.t
People I fight usually takes 2 or 3 shots to kill. I'M the one who gets one shotted, and I'M not complaining.
When it simply comes down to manoverability the game favors the light/fast fighters. it should be able to favor all kinds. All ships should be viable.
Personnally I'd like to see the kind of battle lengths you could getin the Wing Commander series and Starlancer/freelancer series. The same people were supposedly behind both and they knew how to make a good space combat game. Me and my old flatmate had tonnes of fun dogfighting in Wing Commander Armada.