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Thread: Why is there nothing that relates to the Older Star Wars games?
Amuro0079
Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:51 am
#27
By the way, MGLT is the speed rating variable. What about the DPF used in the maneuverablity ratings? Any articles on those?
truewildman
Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:59 am
#28
DPF, or "degrees per frame", is a variable that is near impossible to determine, as it greatly differs machine to machine.
That's why the same setup will have a different "feel" on two different computers.
So, you have to measure the DPF at the server. In this case, it will differ depending on internet latency.
Also, that's why the DPF will feel vastly different between a console game, and an MMO.
That being said, the overall maneuverability statistic is R+2P, and is measured in a unit called DPF.
In SWG, at the server, that's darn close. An approximation is the best we can do.
PixellJ
Thu Dec 16, 2004 9:43 am
#29
Amuro0079 wrote:
You mean making up ships like the TIE Defender? At least the ship stats in those gameswere based off canon, and I don't mind they following the extended universe as well.
truewildman wrote:
Amuro0079 wrote:
No one is askingthe devsto make JtL a clone of previous x-wing/tie fightergames, but at least they should try tostaycloser to the officialStar Wars canon.
Meh, it's a matter of opinion, I guess. I find the previous games to be further from canon than SWG/JTL.
/shrug
The TIE defender was invented in the original TIE fighter.
PixellJ
Thu Dec 16, 2004 9:52 am
#30
To answer the post, the reason JtL 'might' suck (I don't mind it, although Xwing will always be my fave), has nothing to do with SOE or LA. It's game consoles. Gone are the days of Falcon 3.0, $500 thrustmaster flight sim yokes and throttles, EMS, XMS etc. Another franchise I enjoyed, Mechwarrior, was run into the ground as well looking for the lowest common denominator to sell to the slobbering masses. The joystick market used to be huge (as was the flight sim/ space sim market), with Thrustmaster and CH leading the pack.
All games are watered down now to attract the pimply faced kids playing Xbox. Give them the most reward in the shortest time possible with the least amount of effort. Throw in some big boobies on the box cover just to cover all the angles too.
truewildman
Thu Dec 16, 2004 9:59 am
#31
truewildman wrote:
Description of MGLT speed variable:
The propulsion statistics are usually stated in terms of arbitrary game-specific units that cannot be readily related to the real world. The computer games use a "speed" unit called the MGLT, which looks like it might be an acronym. The roleplaying game does not even label its distance and speed units. In fact the roleplaying units are said to take different values depending on the difficulty of movement due to local conditions, hazards and obstructions. The statistics are simply meant to convey the idea that some vessels are more nimble or are capable of outrunning other kinds of vessels.
It is used to set the ship speeds relative to each other.
Also, are we not talking chassis speeds? I know speeds and maneuverability will differ greatly with differing components.
I thought you meant the ships' chassis. Use the formula I posted with the MGLT's in ROTS canon, and you'll see the stats there are really close to canon.
Message Edited by truewildman on 12-16-2004 11:12 AM
Achyutathewook
Thu Dec 16, 2004 5:54 pm
#33
Amuro0079 wrote:
No one is askingthe devsto make JtL a clone of previous x-wing/tie fightergames, but at least they should try tostaycloser to the officialStar Wars canon.
/agree
Amuro0079
Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:54 pm
#34
truewildman wrote:
truewildman wrote:
Description of MGLT speed variable:
The propulsion statistics are usually stated in terms of arbitrary game-specific units that cannot be readily related to the real world. The computer games use a "speed" unit called the MGLT, which looks like it might be an acronym. The roleplaying game does not even label its distance and speed units. In fact the roleplaying units are said to take different values depending on the difficulty of movement due to local conditions, hazards and obstructions. The statistics are simply meant to convey the idea that some vessels are more nimble or are capable of outrunning other kinds of vessels.
It is used to set the ship speeds relative to each other.
Also, are we not talking chassis speeds? I know speeds and maneuverability will differ greatly with differing components.
I thought you meant the ships' chassis. Use the formula I posted with the MGLT's in ROTS canon, and you'll see the stats there are really close to canon.
Message Edited by truewildman on 12-16-2004 11:12 AM
Chassis speed is pointless also, why? For example, in JtL youcan put the same engine in the A-Wing and and the X-Wing and thensay the A-wing is about 25% faster than the X-wing with the same engine and that matches the canon, however, you forget one thing: the A-Wing and X-Wing are never supposed to use the same engine in reality.
Also, this statement:
The statistics are simply meant to convey the idea that some vessels are more nimble or are capable of outrunning other kinds of vessels.
This is exactly what I was saying. The formulaused to calculate the statsdoesn't reallymatter. The canon isn't just simply stats,but something thatgives you an ideaabout theperformance of shipsrelative to other ships. If you just look at the stats of one ship, say the Y-Wing -80 MGLT /50 DPF,the information by itself doesn't really convey anything useful, until you comparethe statsto those of another ship producedwith the same set of formulae, say the X-Wing- 100 MGLT / 75 DPF, and then you look at the B-Wing - 90 MGLT / 65 DPF. Andnow you have an idea that the X-Wing is about50% more maneuverablethan the Y-Wing, and the B-Wing is right in the middle between the X and Y, a bitcloser to the X. And that's all I care. How thosenumberswere actuallyderived dosen't really concern me. If JtL hadcorrectly presented this kind of relative relationships between ships, I'd say it's close to canon. But right now as it stands, I can'tsay I agree with you.
Message Edited by Amuro0079 on 12-17-2004 03:23 PM
FuryoftheStars
Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:09 am
#35
Amuro0079 wrote:
If you just look at the stats of one ship, say the Y-Wing - 80 MGLT / 50 DPF, the information by itself doesn't really convey anything useful, until you compare the stats to those of another ship produced with the same set of formulae, say the X-Wing - 100 MGLT / 75 DPF, and then you look at the B-Wing - 90 MGLT / 65 DPF. And now you have an idea that the X-Wing is about 50% more maneuverable than the Y-Wing, and the B-Wing is right in the middle between the X and Y, a bit closer to the X.
A nice point indeed. The B-wing is supposed to be faster and more manueverable than the Y-wing while slower and a bit more sluggish in turning than the X-Wing. In JTL, we have a virtual flying brick as the B-Wing. Hence, they messed things up. The TIE Bomber is supposed to be more manueverable than what it is in JTL... in relative to the other craft... as well.
Mathematical calculations aside, it's the relativity of things that we care about.
Message Edited by FuryoftheStars on 12-16-2004 09:11 PM
truewildman
Fri Dec 17, 2004 6:50 am
#37
Okay, I agree with you there on the Bwing, as that's the only ship I can find in the whole line-up that strays from canon.
So, if you say you want the Bwing changed, instead of all of them, I see your point.
FuryoftheStars
Fri Dec 17, 2004 6:46 pm
#38
It's not just the B-Wing though. The TIE Bomber needs adjustment too. As well as the YT-1300. Aside from that, they have the weapon payload wrong on just about every single one. Ok, yes, I can see an extra hardpoint on something like the X-Wing. It feasibly has the ability to take that. But a TIE Fighter does not have the ability to take on a missile launcher. Other TIEs are given extra weapons which they aren't supposed to have as well. If I was a pilot in all 3 factions and actually had the time, I could probably give you a list of at least another 50 things they messed up on, ranging greatly in severity.
Meuw
Fri Dec 17, 2004 7:25 pm
#39
This seems to me a pretty silly question. Why are the ships in JTL not like the universal counterparts onscreen? Why didn't they make the ships perform realistically?
Good lord people, are you smoking bantha poodoo? The Empire is an E-M-P-I-R-E! A huge group of hundreds of worlds all pooling resources into the navy and ground forces. Their ships were made with economy in mind. They sent out 10 ships for every 1 rebel ship. They were fast, they were maneuverable, they were paper-mache.
rebel ships were prototypes built by the corellians(If I remember correctly) they were slowm large and complex to pilot. But with their sheilds they could take on groups of lesser TIEs.
So for crying otu loud it is freaking obvious that they COULD NOT and SHOULD NOT try to transfer this over into a game were EVERY player recieves THE SAME resources to aquire ships. If they did that then EVERYONE would want to fly a rebel ship. I came to this game from Freelancer, and that game proved beyond a doubt this point. After 3 months EVERYONE in the game flew the pirate faction ships(and one civilian) because the designers made them stronger than everyones elses.
So really, if you want to play TIE fighter then go on ebay and buy an old pentium 90mhz (I have one if you are buying lol) and download the game off of an abandonware site. This is a massively multiplayer RPG/Action game. It is not a flight sim.