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Salco wrote:
You're saying in comparison to an F-22, the MiG-29 isn't lower tech? Ooook...

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No, I realize that I phrased that poorly, but the F-22 was developed in response to the Mig-29 and a Su-something. All I was trying to say was that 30 years doesn't nesscessarily make something obsolete.

No, it doesn't make something obsolete, but over 30 years the effectiveness of this "something" deteriorates. Sure, our fleet of F-15's and -16's still works, but they're getting old and falling apart, and we can make better aircraft now. Similarly, while a Belbullab-22 or Eta-2 might still work, and be lethal, an X-Wing should be more effective due to it's later and improved technology. Even with components able to be replaced, the design and built-in equipment (nav computers, targeting software, etc.) of an X-Wing for instance should be superior.

Message Edited by Salco on 08-21-2005 04:09 PM

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Salco wrote:
No, it doesn't make something obsolete, but over 30 years the effectiveness of this "something" deteriorates. Sure, our fleet of F-15's and -16's still works, but they're getting old and falling apart, and we can make better aircraft now. Similarly, while a Belbullab-22 or Eta-2 might still work, and be lethal, an X-Wing should be more effective due to it's later and improved technology. Even with components able to be replaced, the design and built-in equipment (nav computers, targeting software, etc.) of an X-Wing for instance should be superior.

Message Edited by Salco on 08-21-2005 04:09 PM

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I dunno, did you see see the targeting system on the x-wing? Kind of looked like someone pluged an atari system in there when the rebel's wern't looking. And I would probably agree that new ships should be better. My argurment was targeted at the players who, I got the feeling, didn't want the ships in game at all and were trying to use the technology arguement to justify their removal or utter nerfification. They do need to be balenced, but once that is done I see no reason that people who want can't fly them.

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Washell wrote:

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evil_SOCCERMOM wrote:

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Salco wrote:
You're saying in comparison to an F-22, the MiG-29 isn't lower tech? Ooook...

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No, I realize that I phrased that poorly, but the F-22 was developed in response to the Mig-29 and a Su-something. All I was trying to say was that 30 years doesn't nesscessarily make something obsolete.

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SU-27, most beautiful fighter plane ever built. If I was one of the lucky few flying the F-22 I'd hope like hell I would never have to take the MiG-29 or SU-27 on in a dogfight, 40 miles, AWACSguided dual AMRAAM launch and turn to make distance. Them russians build damn fine planes.

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True, but it was really only designed to be a competent dogfighter not a suberb one. Its role, as you said, is to take out targets from a distance using its stealth and speed to not even let the enemy know it was there. Its the same reason the F-14 and F-15 remain capable Air-superiority fighters, they can take out much more maneuverable fighters long before the target realizes they are getting shot.

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chervil wrote:

Personally, the JEDI starfighter should be reserved for the, uh, Jedi...

And no, I am not and have to current plans to ever be, a Jeedai.

I have always enjoyed the SW universe from the perspective of those like Han and Wedge who did some pretty amazing stuff without "Force cheat".

Personally, I think that reserving it as a Jedi-only ship (much as there are faction-specific ships and armor/clothes/weapons) would actually encourage more Jedi to leave the ground and get into space.

I will answer this, Jedi in swg hold no advantages in space over normal people. The ONLY reason you and the Jedi are asking for this is because it has the smallest hit box of all ships and if only jedi could use it, it would be an advantage in space, sorry not gonna happen. This game has catered to crybaby jedi since day one and most of the playerbase are SICK of it. Jedi are no better in space than anybody else, the ship was flown by other people than Jedi, the name jedi starfighter is a nickname, not the ship's actual name. Any competant pilot could fly one.

I have to agree that I do not like how it compares to the current line of ships. The A-wing was made specifically because the X-wing could not keep up with the Tie Advanced and Interceptor.

WRONG! The Imperial ships were made to compete with the a wing, the a wing came FIRST.

Also, those particular ships did not see widespread usage until ROTJ, so I am kind of surprised they were included this early, they should have been a future release. I am wondering what they held back (not much, even by EU standards) to amuse us with later.

Now, Capital ships will be something. I look forward to that. But I don't want to see a docking bay full of JSF.

For the record, I am an Alliance Ace, and proudly fly my Heavy X when not in my Nova. I do have a Belbullab, but that seemed to me like a rather run of the mill everyman starship, unlike the JSF. Something that anyone with enough credits could purchase and would probably still be several around years later.

Of course, they could always flash forward and release the Vong as a playable species (THAT would take care of the Jeedai problem) and then we would see coral-skips flashing around everywhere.

All in all, though, it is what it is, and no amount of complaining on our part will make them UNcode something they have already included. So if you don't like it, don't use it. If you do, then, well, congratulations, you got a gift.

May the Force be with us, all.

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I think the point anti-prequel-ship folks are trying to make, is that a custom piece of older equipment is characterful, when it is a rare item. That is not the case here.

To use the military analogy, imagine there was a very popular series of films about the events of the Iraq war (either one, really) and in response an online war game were created that tried to duplicate the setting, soldiers, and weapons of the Iraq war.

But, while the game was in development, the director went and made a bunch of films about the father of the hero in his first set of films, and this time as a soldier in the 1960s Vietnam war. Because the Vietnam films are in theatres, the game developers start trying to shoe-horn in Vietnam era technology. Soon, Huey Hogs, jeeps, and metal pot helmets are added to the game.

But, in the game, a Huey can outfight an apache attack helicopter. A jeep is superior to a Humvee. And worse, due to an easy quest to get Vietnam miltary uniforms, its easier to look like a 1960s GI than to pay the exorbitant fee to buy a 'modern' uniform. Soon the developers are introducing expansions like "Iraq: jungle expansion" and "Baghdad: Battles of the Ho Chi Min trail".

And there you are. The military makes use of Hueys even now. But, they're not available as part of a quest, putting one in the hands of each and every soldier, so that fleets of them buzz around, while the lousy stats and non-loot based nature of the crafted Apache make it impractical. And, the young folks who grew up on the over-the-top action hero Vietnam movies like seeing the cool stuff of the Vietnam war, while the fans of the original movies and military history buffs suffer from severe head explosions with every new Vietnam era personel carrier that can outfight an Abrams tank.

That's my take, anyway.

-Dalnara

I'd just like to point out to all side of this argument that the Millenium Falcon itselfis 200 years old, and the YT-1300 design frame is over a thousand years old.

Z-95s and Y-Wingshave been around hundreds of years, and the X-Wing is a very new design, with the B and A-Wings having JUST come off the design board.

Technology level in SWG took a sharp decline when the Empire took over due to the harsh restrictions and even harsher penalties on certain kinds of technologies.

Personally, and this is just my opinion, I am very VERY glad we're getting all the old ships in game. It makes SWG feel less like a video game and more like a complete world. I don't want to see less old ships, I want to see MORE old ships. AFterall, if we don't get the old ships, then they have to make up ships that either don't exist in SW or use ships that are only described in the EU.

If I have anything to complain about shop wise, it's that it took em a year to bring them out, and that the ship chassis certification system is insane. "I'm sorry, you have to be a tier four pilot to use the plentifull and cheap X-Wings, but almost any joe nobody can use the older, more expensiveand more reliable MISSILE boat Y-Wings, even though you see all the novice pilots in'A newHope'piloting X-wings, and all the veterans piloting Y-WIngs and A-Wings."

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evil_SOCCERMOM wrote:

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Washell wrote:

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evil_SOCCERMOM wrote:

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Salco wrote:
You're saying in comparison to an F-22, the MiG-29 isn't lower tech? Ooook...

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No, I realize that I phrased that poorly, but the F-22 was developed in response to the Mig-29 and a Su-something. All I was trying to say was that 30 years doesn't nesscessarily make something obsolete.

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SU-27, most beautiful fighter plane ever built. If I was one of the lucky few flying the F-22 I'd hope like hell I would never have to take the MiG-29 or SU-27 on in a dogfight, 40 miles, AWACSguided dual AMRAAM launch and turn to make distance. Them russians build damn fine planes.

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True, but it was really only designed to be a competent dogfighter not a suberb one. Its role, as you said, is to take out targets from a distance using its stealth and speed to not even let the enemy know it was there. Its the same reason the F-14 and F-15 remain capable Air-superiority fighters, they can take out much more maneuverable fighters long before the target realizes they are getting shot.

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Personally, I think they shoulda worked out a bit more on the X-15 design from 1959.

That sucker went into space and came back in nice and smooth.

Imagine that kind of advantage in atmospheric fights now with our radar technology. Hit the roof and keep going while keeping an atmospheric-limited jet where it can't hurt ya, line your sights up and strike with impunity.

Better yet, light it up with laser tag, hit space and launch your missile that can hit that weathervane from 300+ miles.

Yes, I'm arguing for the new equipmentin old design group.

Although, with the USAF now preparing to put laser systems that pump out a 150KW blast onto their fighters by 2007, missiles might play less of a role in air to air combat.

Message Edited by Ashtirael on 08-27-2005 11:40 PM

its only 40 years

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R9D14 wrote:
its only 40 years

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it's 32 years.

Anakin is 10 in Ep.1. Ep.2 is 10 years later. Ep.3 is 3 years after Ep.2, and Ep.4 is 19 years after Ep.3.

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Ihareo wrote:

I'd just like to point out to all side of this argument that the Millenium Falcon itself is 200 years old, and the YT-1300 design frame is over a thousand years old.

Z-95s and Y-Wings have been around hundreds of years, and the X-Wing is a very new design, with the B and A-Wings having JUST come off the design board.

Technology level in SWG took a sharp decline when the Empire took over due to the harsh restrictions and even harsher penalties on certain kinds of technologies.

Personally, and this is just my opinion, I am very VERY glad we're getting all the old ships in game. It makes SWG feel less like a video game and more like a complete world. I don't want to see less old ships, I want to see MORE old ships. AFterall, if we don't get the old ships, then they have to make up ships that either don't exist in SW or use ships that are only described in the EU.

If I have anything to complain about shop wise, it's that it took em a year to bring them out, and that the ship chassis certification system is insane. "I'm sorry, you have to be a tier four pilot to use the plentifull and cheap X-Wings, but almost any joe nobody can use the older, more expensive and more reliable MISSILE boat Y-Wings, even though you see all the novice pilots in 'A new Hope' piloting X-wings, and all the veterans piloting Y-WIngs and A-Wings."

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I agree. Please, lets have more old ships. But don't make them stronger than the latest technology, that's all I'm saying. Bring the old ships down a notch or two, so that they're equal to if not less than powerful than the newer ships.

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Salco wrote:

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Ihareo wrote:

I'd just like to point out to all side of this argument that the Millenium Falcon itself is 200 years old, and the YT-1300 design frame is over a thousand years old.

Z-95s and Y-Wings have been around hundreds of years, and the X-Wing is a very new design, with the B and A-Wings having JUST come off the design board.

Technology level in SWG took a sharp decline when the Empire took over due to the harsh restrictions and even harsher penalties on certain kinds of technologies.

Personally, and this is just my opinion, I am very VERY glad we're getting all the old ships in game. It makes SWG feel less like a video game and more like a complete world. I don't want to see less old ships, I want to see MORE old ships. AFterall, if we don't get the old ships, then they have to make up ships that either don't exist in SW or use ships that are only described in the EU.

If I have anything to complain about shop wise, it's that it took em a year to bring them out, and that the ship chassis certification system is insane. "I'm sorry, you have to be a tier four pilot to use the plentifull and cheap X-Wings, but almost any joe nobody can use the older, more expensive and more reliable MISSILE boat Y-Wings, even though you see all the novice pilots in 'A new Hope' piloting X-wings, and all the veterans piloting Y-WIngs and A-Wings."

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I agree. Please, lets have more old ships. But don't make them stronger than the latest technology, that's all I'm saying. Bring the old ships down a notch or two, so that they're equal to if not less than powerful than the newer ships.

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But that's just the thing, technology has gone DOWN since the empire took over, not up.

And old BlackSun Viper could whup the begesus out of a new X-wing any day of the week,the only thing the X-wing has going for it is missile launchers, and the best pilots in the galaxy.