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Thread: B-wing vote good or bad
_Nightrunner_
Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:30 am
#27
I generally enjoyed the higher mass and firepower of all the other bomber class ships. When I aced, the first thing I went after was the bwing. I loaded it out with firepower and assumed I could just fly it and that other people who didnt like it just didnt know how to handle a bomber. I tried for 3 days to get used to flying it, but the fact is that the manuverability is just so shotty, and it is so slow even with a 101 spd 70+ ypr engine that I considered it the worst investment I had made in the game.
I really really wanted this ship to work. In addition the wings are bugged. They dont open right and that affects weapon spread in addition to immersion.
Worthless in most regards. I really wanted to like that thing.
It will probably just end up deeded in your house somewhere if you do get one.
Washell
Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:24 pm
#28
Wings are fixed on TC now.
I love this and all rebel ships. They all have character and little quirks you need to master. The privateer crap all flies the same, the heavier just being slightly slower in the turns and acceleration but nothing a good engine and EO3/4 doesn't fix. But master the B-wing... ooooh the firepower 
Did Havok's destroy blacksun duty in it. Came up to the point a wave of 9 BS-lights warped in. 6 left by the time they flew past me to get on my 6, beat that!
Message Edited by Washell on 03-21-2005 02:29 AM
Aicae
Mon Mar 21, 2005 7:56 am
#29
I'm confused about this question. Though I own and have played most of the PC Star Wars flight sims made, I've never flown a B in JtL. I have flown for a bit with someone who had one, though. It seems to me from what little I have seen and the stats on paper that they are just cooler versions of TIE Bombers. Is it that they are the MP ship with such performance that people complain about, or is it the over all performance of the ship? I know I would never take my Bomber dog fighting, but I love it in PvE. If the B is potentially so much more powerful than the TIE Bomber with similar or slightly better performance I would think the thing would be awesome in PvE, but what do I know.. I'm not a stinky rebel 
Scoooter
Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:16 pm
#30
Coran_Sienar wrote:
It's outright unbalanced. No other Master-level fighter maneuvers so badly. Yeah, it's stated purpose is to nail capital ships. However, the Krayt packs the same number of guns with only 30K less mass and has twice the maneuverability.
edit:
People say that the B-Wing should be less maneuverable than the Y-Wing Longprobe because it packs so many guns and more mass. Well, the Krayt is 30% more maneuverable than the Y-Wing Longprobe.
Message Edited by Coran_Sienar on 03-17-2005 02:31 PM
That's because its not a fighter...its a bomber lol
The Krayt is not a bomber its a gunship/Heavy fiighter
All ship types fit a niche.
The problem you really have is the rebels get a bomber in the master box an dnot a fighter
Coran_Sienar
Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:39 pm
#31
That argument doesn't hold water. If you look at the stats, there are plenty of high mass starfighters with equivalent loadouts.
What defines a bomber? Is it the ordinance slots? The Oppressor has 3 versus the B-Wing's 2.
Is it mass? Sure the B-Wing is the heaviest, but it maneuvers like a 5 million mass MP ship.
Is it the number of guns? The Krayt has an equivalent number of guns.
Instead of just shrugging it off and saying, "It's a bomber," why don't you take a hard look at the stats? There's no way that it's balanced in line with the other master level ships.
Message Edited by Coran_Sienar on 03-21-2005 02:42 PM
ExarKunn
Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:50 pm
#32
NasherUK wrote:
Rebels dont really have a lead in a certain area anymore (thanks to whining by imps and neutrals), they used to have good mass and the best firepower, but now the rebel ships are lacking. They need to up the max speed on the A-wing, it cant turn as fast as the equivalent tie and its supposed to be THE fastest fighter around, but at the moment it isnt upto scratch because it has no speed advantage over a tie and has less mass so cant fit a bigger engine.
The B-wing has the most forward firepower out of anything, but its power requirements are insane to fit all those guns so most people just stick to an X-wing instead (and for the X-wings better handling), but then its not supposed to be a fighter. The most balanced way they could do it is make the krayt's handling similar to the B-wing, then all 3 pilot professions have a "heavy bomber".
Message Edited by NasherUK on 03-18-2005 01:34 PM
I dont wanna Hear all the Whining about the A wing, I fly Imperial, my interceptor has 15k Mass LESS than your Precious Awing, You can actually can put armor in your ship if you feel so Inclined, Or, put In larger Weapons... or maby a Larger Engine Ect... us Imps Get Gimped In all our fighters in terms of mass, our "Space Superiority Fighter the Tie advanced weighs in at a massive 65k mass. the same mass as your A-Wng Nowhere near the mass of your Xwing, wich Only gets 1 more weapon slotat 100k Mass. Fly your God Weapon X-wing and be happy that you outclass all fighters in the game in that beast..
I Just mastered Aliance Pilot for My Friends alt acct so we can have a God weapon platform to farm black sun for RE-Parts to outfit Our TIEs so we can be Almost as Effective as a Xwing Runnning No RE-ed parts. the bwing is a Pig Yes, but have you flown the Tie bomber? its almost the same except the Booster reverse
The Devs Cater to the Rebels, but its all about balance
ElderFencer
Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:20 pm
#33
Try flying a 40k mass Privateer Kihraxz... that's a fun little ship to fly... I can PvP in that or dogfight, but I don't bother farming gunboats.
All this whining is the reason we can have 3 ships in our datapads at any one time. My Privateer Ace has the Kihraxz for dogfighting, the Krayt for gunboats and the Ixiyen if I'm not sure what I'm going for. My Rebel isn't a Master yet so I just stick with the X-wing for the moment... But that'll have the B, X, and A... My Imp Pilot alt when I get around to it will fly an Int, Opp, and Firespray. That way no matter what I can choose what tool to use for a given situation.
All this whining is the reason we can have 3 ships in our datapads at any one time. My Privateer Ace has the Kihraxz for dogfighting, the Krayt for gunboats and the Ixiyen if I'm not sure what I'm going for. My Rebel isn't a Master yet so I just stick with the X-wing for the moment... But that'll have the B, X, and A... My Imp Pilot alt when I get around to it will fly an Int, Opp, and Firespray. That way no matter what I can choose what tool to use for a given situation.
ElderFencer
Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:03 am
#34
Coran_Sienar wrote:That argument doesn't hold water. If you look at the stats, there are plenty of high mass starfighters with equivalent loadouts.What defines a bomber? Is it the ordinance slots? The Oppressor has 3 versus the B-Wing's 2.Is it mass? Sure the B-Wing is the heaviest, but it maneuvers like a 5 million mass MP ship.Is it the number of guns? The Krayt has an equivalent number of guns.Instead of just shrugging it off and saying, "It's a bomber," why don't you take a hard look at the stats? There's no way that it's balanced in line with the other master level ships.Message Edited by Coran_Sienar on 03-21-2005 02:42 PM
Instead of spending time looking at stats, why don't you look at what the ships are supposed to be?
X-wing - Space Superiority Fighter
One of the X-wing's greatest assets is its durability: the fighter's reinforced titanium alloy hull, deflector shield projectors, and transparisteel canopy ensure that it can withstand several hits without suffering serious damage.
A-wing - Starfighter
The A-wing relies on its speed and agility in combat. Its armament is relatively weak, consisting of two wing-mounted blaster cannons. A-wings require constant maintenance, and the Alliance has found it extremely difficult to keep a squadron of A-wings operational for any length of time. Despite this, the A-wing is quickly becoming one of the galaxy's most prominent interceptor fighters.
B-wing
Always heavily armed, the B-wing's primary mission profile usually involves attacks on much larger Imperial ships. Utilizing ion cannons and other unusual weapons, the B-wing is capable of quickly disabling these targets. Secondary missions include assault strikes on orbital and ground-based Imperial facilities, and escort duty for X-wing and Y-wing fighter squadrons.
Krayt Gunship
With this vessel, his remote commanders could afford to release, fire or kill vast swaths of employees while remaining profitable.
TIE Oppressor
Although most Imperial fighters are designed to have superior maneuverability, this is a trait in which the TIE Oppressor is rated by most of its pilots as merely average. This lack of dizzying maneuverability is a result of the Oppressor mounting the same basic engine arrangement as seen on earlier TIE starfighter types, but with its thrust being sapped by much heavier and more solid spaceframe. In return for the deficits in combat maneuvering capability, the Oppressor carries one of the most potent offensive and defensive packages fielded in any Imperial starfighter spaceframe.
TIE Bomber
TIE bombers are deployed against space stations, orbital docking platforms, and orbital facilities, but they are especially effective against capital ships. After standard TIE fighters weaken the target's defenses, the bombers swoop in to disable vital areas such as the shield generators and engines.
So in the SW Universe, the A-wings would go in first to break things up, then the Xwings to start taking out SD guns or escorts...then the B-wings would come in to knock out the SD. Not the other way around.
Besides all this... Just because it's a "Master" ship doesn't mean it's the best dogfighter, or has to be identical to the other Master Tier Ships. If you wanted that, then it'd be Imp, = TIE Interceptor, Rebel = Awing, and Privateer = Khirhaz (sp)
Coran_Sienar
Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:35 am
#35
Ah, but the descriptions should be backed up by the stats, shouldn't they?
The A-Wing is an excellent example of that. It's supposed to be the fastest, most maneuverable ship in the EU, right? The Dunelizard, Tie Interceptir, Kilhraxz all outmaneuver it. With the notable exception of the Dunelizard, all of the other fighters on that list are just as fast.
And no Rebel flies the X-Wing because of its "durability," as is stated in your description. Rebels fly the X-Wing in JtL because it has 3 guns. You can't pack on the best armor in the X-Wing due to its 100K mass and its chassis HP is identical to the other starships of its tier. (I know. I've made plenty of them.)
The B-Wing is supposed to "escort" X-Wings and Y-Wings? Nope. Not a chance. If an X-Wing or Y-Wing is going to have trouble dogfighting something, then the B-Wing is going to have a heart attack. Since the B-Wing has a larger head-on target profile than either the X or the Y, it will also be less survivable when it takes on Vettes, Gunships and ISD's than the X or Y Wings. Ironically, the nastiest ship in the Rebel arsenal for taking down the Star Destroyer isn't the B-Wing, but the A-Wing. With its speed and small target profile, it can get to the myriad of blind spots on the ISD with the least amount of exposure to the ISD's turrets.
It's one thing to have descriptions, but when you look at the stats and check out the handling, that's not the way things really are.
You say that the way it's *supposed* to be on a large scale attack is that A-Wings go first, followed by X- and Y-Wings and B-Wings following up in last place. In reality, the two preferred chasses for the Alliance Pilot are the A-Wing (for size and handling characteristics) or the X-Wing (for the offensive firepower from the 3 guns).
What does the B-Wing have to offset the handling characteristics? You load the exact same RE'd reward shield onall of theAlliancefighters. You can pop on one more gun compared to the X-Wing, but the X-Wing will still outperform it in any fight due to its maneuverability.
The stats on the B-Wing do not justify it being half as maneuverable as a Krayt or Oppressor.
Message Edited by Coran_Sienar on 03-21-2005 03:42 PM
ElderFencer
Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:46 am
#36
Wasn't "my" descriptions, I cut and pasted from the SWG site.
And where did you misread "escort" I said B-wings are escorted by Xwings and Awings...not the other way around...
Either way it's a dead issue, the Bwing is a heavily armed brick that in good hands can fly nicely... The devs shouldn't change a thing IMHO
And where did you misread "escort" I said B-wings are escorted by Xwings and Awings...not the other way around...
Either way it's a dead issue, the Bwing is a heavily armed brick that in good hands can fly nicely... The devs shouldn't change a thing IMHO
Kitten_Starsider
Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:36 am
#37
In my eyes the B-Wing can be a good ships with some training and in the right situation.
It is indeed great in taking down gunboats and other huge, slow starships and it isnt too bad against other fighters in PvE either.
The X-wing with its three guns on the other hand can be a lot better aganst most NPC fighters which makes it the best overall rebel fighter for PvE.
Thus there isnt much to complain about concerning PvE with the B-wing as it fills its role prefectly there.
Unfortunately i think PvP is totally different. While the imperials have a fighter which is slightly better in turning and has more gun mounts but has a little larger profile and on top of that the Tie Oppressor who is hands down as good for PvP as the Tie Advanced.
The Advanced like the A-Wing excels in fast turning and dodging blaster fire and still providing enough damage output with their double (single for A-Wing) gun to practically end a fight quickly with conventional laser cannons. The difference between the two ships is only marginally.
The Oppressor however is the trump of the imperials as it is characterized by the single advantage that a heavy ship can have. Missiles. As testing showed you will need to use one countermeasure pack per missiles fired at you. With a decent launcher that takes 1 full second which you will not have if an oppressor shoots3 at close proximity. Not talking that you will run out of countermeasure packs very soon as well.
Due to the larger profile, the sluggishness and only 2 missiles the B-Wing can not compare to that firepower and maneuverability.
In the end no ship and not even an A-wing can defend against that kind of unconventional firepower.
Space Superiority fighters like the X-wing are the ones really hit by the high pvp damage as they do neither have the speed and maneuverability to dodge laser fire nor the unconventional firepower against fast interceptor type fighters. From my experience they are just shot down even if they decide to try to go the right way and try to secure space superiority by destroying enemies oppressors.
Ultimately the rebels are left only with one usable ship (A-Wing)which is countered perfectly by the Tie Oppressor.
In that sense the B-Wing could use a boost with either a third missile slot or higher maneuverability to be able to survive long enough against attacking Tie Advanced like the Oppressor can against A-Wings.
Alternatively, a heavier X-Wing could be more in line with the description and the movies so that they can try to fight oppressors more effectively.
Kitten
Coran_Sienar
Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:42 am
#38
I'd make the B-Wing as maneuverable as the Y-Wing with worse linear acceleration.
In the old LucasArts games, B-Wings were pretty nasty. They were slightly slower and less maneuverable than an X-Wing, but they packed a lot of weapons. They also had some pretty nifty shields.
NPC B-Wings benefit from being tough. Player B-Wings can only hope to equip an RE'd Reward Shield. So, the best you can do for "toughness" is slap on the same shield that you can stick on a Tie Advanced or A-Wing, then why does the B-Wing suffer so badly in the only defensive trait that is left?
Imps can complain about the low mass Tie Interceptor and Tie Advanced, but they conveniently forget that they arethe hands down best handling starfighters in the game with a viable amount of mass.
The X-Wing is probably the best overall chassis in the Rebel arsenal.It may get smoked in a PvP turning fight against an Interceptor, Advanced or Dunelizard. But a good X-Wing pilot in PvP will make anyone fear the merge.
Message Edited by Coran_Sienar on 03-22-2005 09:01 AM
Ducimus
Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:53 pm
#39
>>The X-Wing is probably the best overall chassis in the Rebel arsenal. It may get smoked in a PvP turning fight against an Interceptor, Advanced or Dunelizard. But a good X-Wing pilot in PvP will make anyone fear the merge.
>>
I have yet to meet a rebel pilot in an Xwing that inspired fear or aprehension. Rather, i tended to lick my lips and think.. "Hmmmm yummy". That said, the Xwing is the best overall chassis for most use in the rebel aresnal, but id go with an A wing for PvP. Very hard to hit ship.
EDIT:
>.Imps can complain about the low mass Tie Interceptor and Tie Advanced, but they conveniently forget that they are the hands down best handling starfighters in the game with a viable amount of mass
>>
I only complain about Ties, when rebels start complaing about how gimp their ships are, when i know for a fact they are not. However, i woudlnt say they are THE best handling, but they are amongst the best.
Dunelizard, advanced and interceptor, and A wing are all in the same leauge of manuvering, but do have very minor differences.
>>
I have yet to meet a rebel pilot in an Xwing that inspired fear or aprehension. Rather, i tended to lick my lips and think.. "Hmmmm yummy". That said, the Xwing is the best overall chassis for most use in the rebel aresnal, but id go with an A wing for PvP. Very hard to hit ship.
EDIT:
>.Imps can complain about the low mass Tie Interceptor and Tie Advanced, but they conveniently forget that they are the hands down best handling starfighters in the game with a viable amount of mass
>>
I only complain about Ties, when rebels start complaing about how gimp their ships are, when i know for a fact they are not. However, i woudlnt say they are THE best handling, but they are amongst the best.
Dunelizard, advanced and interceptor, and A wing are all in the same leauge of manuvering, but do have very minor differences.
Message Edited by Ducimus on 03-22-2005 11:56 AM