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To be honest, I'm pretty happy with looting useable wepons and equipmentfrom quests. Completing a theme park (or camping DWB forever) just to have the privilege of paying another 1M+ credits for a reward was lame.

Dare Isay it again? It Was Lame. Weak-sauced. Totally lacking in substance or potency. And nowwith extra punctuation for effect: LAME.!?!,.!

SOE learned a few tricks from Bliz: We're material people. And you know what? We like to be rewarded for checking out your content. Otherwise, it isn't content. Just a buncha transparentgames of quest-object fetch that no one cares about ("Another transport mission with a named NPC! Woo!"). We sure as hell expect some kind of compensation if you're gonna cough up buggy disasters for us to play in (Warren, DWB, Corvette, Avatar, etc.). And although many of us can handle some somewhat-delayed gratification, running out to grind Janta missions (in the days of yore) just so that we could pay for the reward we just ..earned? was stupid. Bullsh*t, in fact. And eventually the loot schematics became next to worthless, so we couldn't even sell the fookers. How much have you paid for an Modified Republic Blaster schematic lately?

So unshackling us from crafters a little was verynice. I'm really happy with that. HOWEVER, that was no reason to go and obsolete everything crafters can make.Proton Carbines shouldn't trump everything that a WS can build. Neither should Trando Suppressors, and all the others.

But do they? Really? Not so much, from what I can tell. There are some items that are iffy, but then again they seem to cert out with Master profs of one kind or another. So presuming that newer subscribers ever show up, they will need a lot of your weapons before they can ever use this stuff. But then again, you're the WS expert, so I won't argue that the numbers don't need tweaking. Don't nerf what we already have, but give you guys the chance to make items that compete better.

But dear God, if we go back to that bullsh*t schematic-reward garbage, we'll have a revolt. Both combat-types that stick around through the trailing ends of the CU will move to Korea and start playing Lineage 7.

So.. I guess this means that we disagree. And you're the expert from the WS end, so I may be a bit off on my numbers. HOWEVER, from the general hack-and-slash perspective, something was missing, and useable rewards fill the void nicely.Competitors had it figured out, so SOE needed to get with it or lose those of us that stuck with them through the CU.

-Zz

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Mor-Dan wrote:
Your loot/quest rewards (weapons) are unbalanced. You changed crafting weapons because you said we were able to create things out of balance, you nerf our abilities, you nerf our resources, and you nerf our system to make everything the same and keep focus in one main area of experimentation at a time. Then you go and drop pistols and rifles 32-dps+ and SAC so low it would require every point of crafting we have to reach, meaning our DPS would 70-80 points lower than the loot guns. That is NOT balance. Your weapons are out of balance because a crafter cannot compete with them.

Nerf quest item and loot or bring up the abilities of the crafter. Give an overall 10-15 point reduction to all weapon SAC costs to give us a chance to at least make something that might be better if the crafter understands their profession. At this point nothing we can make would serve any purpose. It would take krayt tissue with a speed reducer of -2.0 and a dmg rating of 180+ for us to even approach the stats of your pistols and carbines and rifles, so bring base tissue dmg up to 100 and increase speed reducers to a minimum of -1.0. Also give us an enhancer line for barrels and scopes that will allow us to either increase damage, speed, or reduce SAC.

If you want a crafting community, and I mean any kind of a crafting community at all, your crafters must be able to compete with and EXCEED most of the loot in the game, and those that they cannot exceed need to be made non-ADK enabled so they eventually perish and that person must start buying again. You're killing us, DEVs. Maybe all the n00b smiths take our place, but the quality will be terrible because they don't know what they are doing, and they will eventually leave as well when they discover that they cannot make a decent living off the 4-5 weapons sold per day to grinders.

Despite all your efforts, your game is even more unbalanced now than it was Pre-CU. Combat may be "slightly" more balanced, but everything else is out of balance. And I say combat is more balanced with tongue in cheek because Master Defender is WAY out of balance.

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A correspondant whining on the boards?

Omg, I've really seen all now..

So, those quest items are uber and what? They decay. And there's only 1 ADK par account... Those with more than one ADK can now apply it to the quest items, but those who sold their ADK kits cannot.

I'm sure it was fun for you when the theme park rewards were crappy items or useless armors and weapons.. Or when ALL the new weapons were schematics, and we had to beg WS to craft us one..

Now I agree when you say that WS should be able to craft good weapons, I'm happy if you get the fixes you're asking for.. unless you ask them to nerf our rewards, in which case I have to say I strongly disagree.

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Bzzzz wrote:

To be honest, I'm pretty happy with looting useable wepons and equipmentfrom quests. Completing a theme park (or camping DWB forever) just to have the privilege of paying another 1M+ credits for a reward was lame.

Dare Isay it again? It Was Lame. Weak-sauced. Totally lacking in substance or potency. And nowwith extra punctuation for effect: LAME.!?!,.!

SOE learned a few tricks from Bliz: We're material people. And you know what? We like to be rewarded for checking out your content. Otherwise, it isn't content. Just a buncha transparentgames of quest-object fetch that no one cares about ("Another transport mission with a named NPC! Woo!"). We sure as hell expect some kind of compensation if you're gonna cough up buggy disasters for us to play in (Warren, DWB, Corvette, Avatar, etc.). And although many of us can handle some somewhat-delayed gratification, running out to grind Janta missions (in the days of yore) just so that we could pay for the reward we just ..earned? was stupid. Bullsh*t, in fact. And eventually the loot schematics became next to worthless, so we couldn't even sell the fookers. How much have you paid for an Modified Republic Blaster schematic lately?

So unshackling us from crafters a little was verynice. I'm really happy with that. HOWEVER, that was no reason to go and obsolete everything crafters can make.Proton Carbines shouldn't trump everything that a WS can build. Neither should Trando Suppressors, and all the others.

But do they? Really? Not so much, from what I can tell. There are some items that are iffy, but then again they seem to cert out with Master profs of one kind or another. So presuming that newer subscribers ever show up, they will need a lot of your weapons before they can ever use this stuff. But then again, you're the WS expert, so I won't argue that the numbers don't need tweaking. Don't nerf what we already have, but give you guys the chance to make items that compete better.

But dear God, if we go back to that bullsh*t schematic-reward garbage, we'll have a revolt. Both combat-types that stick around through the trailing ends of the CU will move to Korea and start playing Lineage 7.

So.. I guess this means that we disagree. And you're the expert from the WS end, so I may be a bit off on my numbers. HOWEVER, from the general hack-and-slash perspective, something was missing, and useable rewards fill the void nicely.Competitors had it figured out, so SOE needed to get with it or lose those of us that stuck with them through the CU.

-Zz

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if you were having to pay 1mil+ for the weapon you wanted to have crafted with the loot you received, you weren't asking enough WS to help you out. most of us aren't so greedy as to chagre you full price for a weapon that you are providing the key ingredient for. if you bring me a de-10 barrel, schem, and 3 krayt tissues, you get a completed DE-10 for 50k...

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BHM wrote:

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Mor-Dan wrote:
Your loot/quest rewards (weapons) are unbalanced. You changed crafting weapons because you said we were able to create things out of balance, you nerf our abilities, you nerf our resources, and you nerf our system to make everything the same and keep focus in one main area of experimentation at a time. Then you go and drop pistols and rifles 32-dps+ and SAC so low it would require every point of crafting we have to reach, meaning our DPS would 70-80 points lower than the loot guns. That is NOT balance. Your weapons are out of balance because a crafter cannot compete with them.

Nerf quest item and loot or bring up the abilities of the crafter. Give an overall 10-15 point reduction to all weapon SAC costs to give us a chance to at least make something that might be better if the crafter understands their profession. At this point nothing we can make would serve any purpose. It would take krayt tissue with a speed reducer of -2.0 and a dmg rating of 180+ for us to even approach the stats of your pistols and carbines and rifles, so bring base tissue dmg up to 100 and increase speed reducers to a minimum of -1.0. Also give us an enhancer line for barrels and scopes that will allow us to either increase damage, speed, or reduce SAC.

If you want a crafting community, and I mean any kind of a crafting community at all, your crafters must be able to compete with and EXCEED most of the loot in the game, and those that they cannot exceed need to be made non-ADK enabled so they eventually perish and that person must start buying again. You're killing us, DEVs. Maybe all the n00b smiths take our place, but the quality will be terrible because they don't know what they are doing, and they will eventually leave as well when they discover that they cannot make a decent living off the 4-5 weapons sold per day to grinders.

Despite all your efforts, your game is even more unbalanced now than it was Pre-CU. Combat may be "slightly" more balanced, but everything else is out of balance. And I say combat is more balanced with tongue in cheek because Master Defender is WAY out of balance.

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A correspondant whining on the boards?

Omg, I've really seen all now..

So, those quest items are uber and what? They decay. And there's only 1 ADK par account... Those with more than one ADK can now apply it to the quest items, but those who sold their ADK kits cannot.

I'm sure it was fun for you when the theme park rewards were crappy items or useless armors and weapons.. Or when ALL the new weapons were schematics, and we had to beg WS to craft us one..

Now I agree when you say that WS should be able to craft good weapons, I'm happy if you get the fixes you're asking for.. unless you ask them to nerf our rewards, in which case I have to say I strongly disagree.

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again, this was not posted after i was named a correspondent, it was posted several days BEFORE i was named WS Cor. why would i post a whine here when i can post it in the Correspondent forums where i know the devs will see it and read it? use a little common sense...

i am not asking that your rewards be nerfed, bt at the same time i am. i am actually wanting what we can craft to be brought up to close to the same standards of the quest loot (300+ dps, sub 90 SAC). in this way we can enhance weapons to better than quest loot, but there is still quest loot that is better than what can be crafted as a standard item. this opens up more options for you, but does not take away from my and other players business. just as their needed to be balance in the combat system, there needs t be balance in rewards and crafting to ensure that both have a place.

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GadonThek wrote:

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Mor-Dan wrote:
lol.. i was named correspondent several days AFTER i posted this thread...


...and yes, i am making them aware of a great many things. this is one of them.

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Im still waiting for data to prove what you're claiming, because without that you're just making empty statements which appear to have no basis in fact, judging by everything I and many others have seen.

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i have read about so many weapons from the Kashyyyk quests that are 320-340dps with SAC costs 20-30pts below what we could actually achieve that it almost makes me sick to read about them anymore. why in the world would spend 50k on an Adv Laser Rifle that is 300dps and 110 SAC when you can get a better rifle through a quest reward that is 330dps and SAC80? why would buy a krayted weapon that is 350dps and 110SAC when you can get one that is 330dps and SAC75? you are going to do far more damage with a SAC75 weapon because you are going to be able to use more specials. not allowing us to have the schem, ok... i can understand that... it's not all about us. but making the vast majority of new master level weapons that come as rewards better than what can be crafted in every aspect? that's a slap in the face. so yes, i am taking this up with the dev team, and i hope that either they increase what we can do, or they nerf your rewards.

Message Edited by XStarbracer on 05-19-2005 02:36 PM

You hope they nerf our rewards? I hope they nerf your ambition!

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Mor-Dan wrote:
i have read about so many weapons from the Kashyyyk quests that are 320-340dps with SAC costs 20-30pts below what we could actually achieve that it almost makes me sick to read about them anymore. why in the world would spend 50k on an Adv Laser Rifle that is 300dps and 110 SAC when you can get a better rifle through a quest reward that is 330dps and SAC80? why would buy a krayted weapon that is 350dps and 110SAC when you can get one that is 330dps and SAC75? you are going to do far more damage with a SAC75 weapon because you are going to be able to use more specials. not allowing us to have the schem, ok... i can understand that... it's not all about us. but making the vast majority of new master level weapons that come as rewards better than what can be crafted in every aspect? that's a slap in the face. so yes, i am taking this up with the dev team, and i hope that either they increase what we can do, or they nerf your rewards.

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So what you are actually sying is, your complaints are based on hearsay?

Have you seen one of these mystical reward weapons? Because it's odd that Ive not when the only RotW weapons Ive yet to aquire are the Explosive Shell Sniper and the looted weapons from the Avatar Platform.

My current Laser Rifle has a modified DPS of 503 and a SAC of 92. Most of the reward weapons Ive recieved have been of equal or lower quality. The weapon was crafted post-CU with post-CU componants, so how is it that whoever runs the vendor I bought it from can pull of something like that and you cant? Oh that's right, because you made blind, sweeping statements without checking your facts.

I asked you for hard data and you provide me with yet more moaning and some secondhand stats you "read about". Go out, craft a few dozen weapons with quality resources, then another batch with tissues, then another with loot componants, compare all of those samples to the loot weapons and present the results. Anything less is just baseless whining; how do you expect people to take your complaints seriously if you wont even put the effort into researching them yourself?

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GadonThek wrote:

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So what you are actually sying is, your complaints are based on hearsay?

Have you seen one of these mystical reward weapons? Because it's odd that Ive not when the only RotW weapons Ive yet to aquire are the Explosive Shell Sniper and the looted weapons from the Avatar Platform.

My current Laser Rifle has a modified DPS of 503 and a SAC of 92. Most of the reward weapons Ive recieved have been of equal or lower quality. The weapon was crafted post-CU with post-CU componants, so how is it that whoever runs the vendor I bought it from can pull of something like that and you cant? Oh that's right, because you made blind, sweeping statements without checking your facts.

I asked you for hard data and you provide me with yet more moaning and some secondhand stats you "read about". Go out, craft a few dozen weapons with quality resources, then another batch with tissues, then another with loot componants, compare all of those samples to the loot weapons and present the results. Anything less is just baseless whining; how do you expect people to take your complaints seriously if you wont even put the effort into researching them yourself?

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You don't even know the name of your weaponsmith, you buy from a vendor, and you claim it was crafted Post CU with post-CU components?
How do you know? What is to make me believe your comment is anything less than hearsay?

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nikko11 wrote:

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GadonThek wrote:

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So what you are actually sying is, your complaints are based on hearsay?

Have you seen one of these mystical reward weapons? Because it's odd that Ive not when the only RotW weapons Ive yet to aquire are the Explosive Shell Sniper and the looted weapons from the Avatar Platform.

My current Laser Rifle has a modified DPS of 503 and a SAC of 92. Most of the reward weapons Ive recieved have been of equal or lower quality. The weapon was crafted post-CU with post-CU componants, so how is it that whoever runs the vendor I bought it from can pull of something like that and you cant? Oh that's right, because you made blind, sweeping statements without checking your facts.

I asked you for hard data and you provide me with yet more moaning and some secondhand stats you "read about". Go out, craft a few dozen weapons with quality resources, then another batch with tissues, then another with loot componants, compare all of those samples to the loot weapons and present the results. Anything less is just baseless whining; how do you expect people to take your complaints seriously if you wont even put the effort into researching them yourself?

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You don't even know the name of your weaponsmith, you buy from a vendor, and you claim it was crafted Post CU with post-CU components?
How do you know? What is to make me believe your comment is anything less than hearsay?

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I have no problem with loot only weapons. But to be honnest they go above my base crafted weapons. And yes i have seen them. No i didn't go get them myself i'm a level 1 crafter. I enjoy my profession it's almost the only reason i'm still playing the game. I'm not rich at all i never been above 10mil(And i gotthat after a month of buying krayt tissue crafting lots of weapons and selling them(i got lucky on 1 slice that was a de10 thatgot a 34% dmg slice.)and i spend that in 30 mins buying more resources to make more and better weapons.

Butour new WS corohas a good point. A lot of the new weapons you can only get with a quest. Now that's not a problem at all i love loot and collectible stuff. I don't mind players getting weapons they can instantly use. But if i have to use good krayt tissue resources etc to come close to the DPS and still have a much higher SAC i'm beginning to see a problem. And that problem is everybody will want those weapons they will get rare over time and will cost a fortune to buy. I hate high prices myself but that's what happens in every mmorpg with the best and exclusive items.

1 Little example: Theknuckler of the katarn those are around 324 DPS. The best blaster fist i was able to craft with pre-cu subs before they nerfed them after the cu was a 220 dps blaster fist. I searched image dump and i only found 3 :/ between 180 and 205 dps. Why would a tkm need a weaponsmith that's a 100 dps difference between mine and that one. Oke i haven't crafted one since i have bene testing a lot of different weapons. But that's a pretty huge difference for me. Now it either cry's nerf me to hell or upgrade ws weapons because that's just unbalanced.

I might edit this post and put some more examples in it.

Knuckles of the katarn http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=249651

stupid forums keep messing up my clickys

Message Edited by Maceey on 05-20-2005 01:05 AM

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nikko11 wrote:

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GadonThek wrote:

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So what you are actually sying is, your complaints are based on hearsay?

Have you seen one of these mystical reward weapons? Because it's odd that Ive not when the only RotW weapons Ive yet to aquire are the Explosive Shell Sniper and the looted weapons from the Avatar Platform.

My current Laser Rifle has a modified DPS of 503 and a SAC of 92. Most of the reward weapons Ive recieved have been of equal or lower quality. The weapon was crafted post-CU with post-CU componants, so how is it that whoever runs the vendor I bought it from can pull of something like that and you cant? Oh that's right, because you made blind, sweeping statements without checking your facts.

I asked you for hard data and you provide me with yet more moaning and some secondhand stats you "read about". Go out, craft a few dozen weapons with quality resources, then another batch with tissues, then another with loot componants, compare all of those samples to the loot weapons and present the results. Anything less is just baseless whining; how do you expect people to take your complaints seriously if you wont even put the effort into researching them yourself?

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You don't even know the name of your weaponsmith, you buy from a vendor, and you claim it was crafted Post CU with post-CU components?
How do you know? What is to make me believe your comment is anything less than hearsay?

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There's this lovely little section of the examine window which lists the name of the crafter who created the item, and using the handy and largely unkown "/tell" feature, I managed, by some mystical and unknown means, to contact him and ask him.

Im not simply pulling my assertions out of my arse here; most combat characters and many crafters do not believe the weapons are overpowered, and even if they were, to be honest, I really couldnt give a toss. Im enjoying getting some worthwhile loot, and if that means some poor weaponsmith -sorry, that's a bit of an oxymoron- has to suffer for a month or two while the weapons decay into show pieces, I find I can quite easily live with it.

I didn't read all of this, but I must say that I have crafted weapons with Higher DPS than some of the loot quest weapons. Mainly in the area of Ranged thoughusing high damage Krayt Tissue, because it is impossible to match the DPS of the new loot quest Melee weapons. I agree that these new loot quest weapons should not be able to be ADK'd like Mor said. Additionally PvE is so unbalanced its not even funny. I'm a Master Swordsman, Master Weaponsmith, 4004 Merchant, I used to be able to go out on occasion and solo rancor's and had no problem with baznitch's etc. Now that everything is Level based it makes it pointless for me to be a combatant at all. And forget about getting loot from the Geo caves anymore because as it stands now no one can really get past the first room. Yes PvP may be balanced but PvE sucks major balls and makes the game not much fun in the way of exploring new places. I took up the Weaponsmith quest in the Myrdrial caves on Kashyyk and I have to rely on other people killing the unisor'is's or whatever you call those level 76 19k ham creatures because even hitting them with my 470 modified dps powerhammer doesn't do them any harm. I say that if we can only have 3500 health at level 80 it should be the same amount of health for a level 80 creature and so on but the Devs never listen to any of us so it doesn't really matter. This game is more and more dissapointing each time I log into it.

Message Edited by AriesMercwar on 05-19-2005 04:36 PM