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Thread: Unbalanced
maRRsTu
Thu May 19, 2005 5:23 pm
#40
I agree as a WS and a combat character. The DPS is not what bothers me I can make weapons with better DPS but the actions are 75 !? I mean come on 90 now that is reasonable but their low actions costs are silly. Yes make them useful but considering we dont have any new schems. Ohhh well I was realy hoping to craft some of these NICE looking weapons.
Uninformed
Thu May 19, 2005 9:21 pm
#41
Heh. Having played for 20 months its about damn time a quest item had good stats. In my judgment for a very hard quest you should get a great wep or armor piece that sets you apart and that you would want to use rather than wall mount.
Where is the fun in just getting a bunch of money and buying a weapon, even if the crafter names it for you? Been there, done that.
I actually think the weapon loots need to be IMPROVED. Who wants a 300 DPS Dawnsorrow when you can make a 340 base Advanced Laser. And guess what? Everyone is running around with the latter.
If they want to make the best of all possible worlds, then drop special components that go into a weapon but make them very rare and make them add special mods to weps.
GadonThek
Fri May 20, 2005 1:23 am
#42
Seriously, the best solution is to leave all the weapons as they are. No limiting ADK use, no nerfing, no boosting; nothing.
The -only- thing needed to solve all this bickering is to add an option to the radial menu of the quest/loot weapons which only shows up to weaponsmiths called Reverse Engineer. When the option is selected it turns the weapon into a five-use schemtic or some crap.
Im hoping all the combat profession corrs fight you on this, because Im really sick of the crafters dictating how the loot in SWG works: you are fond of saying the game is not all about combat, and you're right, but it's not all about crafters either, and combat character should be able to recieve worthwhile and useful rewards from quests. I like filler and decorative item content as much as the next guy, but Kashyyyk finally means I can get a cool, fairly unique weapon without camping for months on end, and it seems as if some smiths are just trying to get that taken away out of pure spite.
The -only- thing needed to solve all this bickering is to add an option to the radial menu of the quest/loot weapons which only shows up to weaponsmiths called Reverse Engineer. When the option is selected it turns the weapon into a five-use schemtic or some crap.
Im hoping all the combat profession corrs fight you on this, because Im really sick of the crafters dictating how the loot in SWG works: you are fond of saying the game is not all about combat, and you're right, but it's not all about crafters either, and combat character should be able to recieve worthwhile and useful rewards from quests. I like filler and decorative item content as much as the next guy, but Kashyyyk finally means I can get a cool, fairly unique weapon without camping for months on end, and it seems as if some smiths are just trying to get that taken away out of pure spite.
XStarbracer
Fri May 20, 2005 5:52 am
#43
Crafters have been a pain in the arse since SWG came out, hopefully SOE takes the part from EQ2 that has crafters get the shaft.
Nerfing loot so your sales will go up is sick, your stupid greed would ruin the game, You cant have Content without good quest rewards, Im sorry but if i have to fight someone likeNekrosis at the end of a big quest i better dang get some good rewards.
Jooko113
Fri May 20, 2005 9:28 am
#44
XStarbracer wrote:Crafters have been a pain in the arse since SWG came out, hopefully SOE takes the part from EQ2 that has crafters get the shaft.Nerfing loot so your sales will go up is sick, your stupid greed would ruin the game, You cant have Content without good quest rewards, Im sorry but if i have to fight someone likeNekrosis at the end of a big quest i better dang get some good rewards.
Crafters will continue to "ruin" the game whether you like it or not, you will continue to buy armor and weps from us, food and supplies, and the crafters will be in a win situation yet AGAIN. Have fun on your little "I beat the crafters" ride, but you eventually will come crawling back. Crafters have control in this game. Get over it.
Mor-Dan
Fri May 20, 2005 1:11 pm
#45
let me clue some of you in on some facts...
if your weapon's base DPS, as far as rifle's and carbines are concerned, is around 310-320dps with a SAC of less than 100, it is either krayted, or pre-cu parts were used. the weapon stocks from pre-cu converted with -20 SAC, no speed addition, and add 40/40dmg to the weapon. post CU stocks add speed, CAN reduce upto -21 SAC, but not without adding .1 speed to your weapon (subtract about 5.5% from your dps), and they get no damage bonus, so remove 40/40 from your min/max, or about 16dps. adv projectile feed mechs converted with -2.0spd, 23/50dmg, and -6 SAC. this would require beyond 100% experimentation on dmg, 100% on speed, and close to 100% on SAC. last time i checked we don't get 30 experimentation points, just 10, 12 max.
the best Adv Laser Rifle on my server using all post CU parts is 290-ish DPS with a SAC of around 108. how many quest reward rifles are less than 300dps and more than 100 SAC?
now let's look at pistols, as it was a pistol that initially caused me to start this post, aside from things like the proton carbine which is 320s DPS and i can't remember the SAC, but it is below 100.
there is a quest reward pistol that is 330s range, soemthing like that (was talking to a PvPer on my server about his best pistol), and SAC75. the BEST pistol you can make on my server using pre-CU parts that have -6 SAC will reach that SAC level, but will be more than 100 LESS in dps. you can't tell me that someone else's server has such incredible resources that they can reach these heights even though we can't with POST CU parts. there's a reason i was named a correspondent and it is because i know my profession...
now let's trun to unarmed weapons (hehe, there's an oxymoron)...
Knuckles of the Katarn
Speed: 2
Damage: 358-715
Elemental: 120 cold
acc: 0
wound 2.7
Dps : 328
Sac: 75
the only CL54 set of knuckles in the game. nothing over 40 can currently be crafted, which means two things: if you don't have ROTW, you can't get run the quest for these, and thus are forced to use your bare hands or pay an insane price to LOOTERS, who are the real cause of the price inflations, to get one that hasn't been bio-linked yet. not only is the SAC not possible on ANY unarmed weapon, it isn't possible on ANY crafted melee weapon.
THIS is how the quest rewards should look, remember the Adv Laser I told you about?
Trandoshan Hunting Rifle
DMG: 520-1040
Spd: 2.5
Base DPS 312
SAC: 95
these stats ARE matchable by a Weaponsmith using enhancements. if the enhancers are good enough, s/he can beat these stats. this is an example of what a good loot/quest reward item is. it is good enough that most weaponsmiths can't touch it, yet restricted enough that someone who can get a hold of the enhancers can match it or beat it. this leaves two options for the player: i can pay in time, or i can pay in cash. you now choose to either get your rifle through doing the quest, or paying a premium price to save that time.
that, my freinds, is the very nature of business. you pay extra for extra conveniences. you pay common prices for common everyday things like bubble gum, a hamburger, 80k mile tires, and things like that. however, if you want to be entertained, you pay a premium for a movie, a stage play, an opera, a themepark, a video game, etc. next time you go grocery shopping, go to an all natural store... one of those places where they didn't drop pesticides and such on their crops, they tended everything by hand and with all natural means. i'm telling you, $8 truly fresh squeezed orange juice taste so much better than that Florida Premium whatever you buy that is concentrated. you pay more for the finer things. the same is true with weapons in a crafting community.
if there were no crafting community, i wouldn't have any thing to say about this. there is, though. why? because this is based on the star wars life. you have a chance to be a combatant, an entertainer, a healer, a hunter, or even a sales person. it trult is the most unique idea yet. those who complain about prices here complain about them in real life too. alll i can say is work smarter, learn to budget, and figure out what is actually worth the convenience and what is not. to me, it is worth an extra $100 a night to sleep in a nice hotel on the nice side of town. to others, that's a waste when you can drop $40 on a motel 6 because you're spending most of your time on the town anyway. it's preference. you are the one who would rather run the quest for the rifle, and i am the one who would rather save time by paying for it...
at any rate, there are some of the examples you have been clammoring for, and proof that your beloved WS is, in fact, taking advantage of a conversion glitch. ranged weapons should be SAC in the low 100s - mid 110s, depending on where they spend their points. melee should ALWAYS be over 100 SAC, but they do vary greatly. anthing you see that is 300 and up taht does not say "krayt" somewhere on it, or the creator discloses that it is not krayt were made with pre-CU components, components i am now trying to get fixed the way i am fighting for my profession members to compete with loot and rewards. we dont have to be better than what you can get, we just have to be comparable in some way. i would PREFER that to hapen through an increasing of our abilities, but if it requires loot and rewards to be nerfed, then that is what it takes. hate me if you want, but if you were in my position you would be doing the same thing i am. even if you were going about it differently, your end goal would be the same.
if your weapon's base DPS, as far as rifle's and carbines are concerned, is around 310-320dps with a SAC of less than 100, it is either krayted, or pre-cu parts were used. the weapon stocks from pre-cu converted with -20 SAC, no speed addition, and add 40/40dmg to the weapon. post CU stocks add speed, CAN reduce upto -21 SAC, but not without adding .1 speed to your weapon (subtract about 5.5% from your dps), and they get no damage bonus, so remove 40/40 from your min/max, or about 16dps. adv projectile feed mechs converted with -2.0spd, 23/50dmg, and -6 SAC. this would require beyond 100% experimentation on dmg, 100% on speed, and close to 100% on SAC. last time i checked we don't get 30 experimentation points, just 10, 12 max.
the best Adv Laser Rifle on my server using all post CU parts is 290-ish DPS with a SAC of around 108. how many quest reward rifles are less than 300dps and more than 100 SAC?
now let's look at pistols, as it was a pistol that initially caused me to start this post, aside from things like the proton carbine which is 320s DPS and i can't remember the SAC, but it is below 100.
there is a quest reward pistol that is 330s range, soemthing like that (was talking to a PvPer on my server about his best pistol), and SAC75. the BEST pistol you can make on my server using pre-CU parts that have -6 SAC will reach that SAC level, but will be more than 100 LESS in dps. you can't tell me that someone else's server has such incredible resources that they can reach these heights even though we can't with POST CU parts. there's a reason i was named a correspondent and it is because i know my profession...
now let's trun to unarmed weapons (hehe, there's an oxymoron)...
Knuckles of the Katarn
Speed: 2
Damage: 358-715
Elemental: 120 cold
acc: 0
wound 2.7
Dps : 328
Sac: 75
the only CL54 set of knuckles in the game. nothing over 40 can currently be crafted, which means two things: if you don't have ROTW, you can't get run the quest for these, and thus are forced to use your bare hands or pay an insane price to LOOTERS, who are the real cause of the price inflations, to get one that hasn't been bio-linked yet. not only is the SAC not possible on ANY unarmed weapon, it isn't possible on ANY crafted melee weapon.
THIS is how the quest rewards should look, remember the Adv Laser I told you about?
Trandoshan Hunting Rifle
DMG: 520-1040
Spd: 2.5
Base DPS 312
SAC: 95
these stats ARE matchable by a Weaponsmith using enhancements. if the enhancers are good enough, s/he can beat these stats. this is an example of what a good loot/quest reward item is. it is good enough that most weaponsmiths can't touch it, yet restricted enough that someone who can get a hold of the enhancers can match it or beat it. this leaves two options for the player: i can pay in time, or i can pay in cash. you now choose to either get your rifle through doing the quest, or paying a premium price to save that time.
that, my freinds, is the very nature of business. you pay extra for extra conveniences. you pay common prices for common everyday things like bubble gum, a hamburger, 80k mile tires, and things like that. however, if you want to be entertained, you pay a premium for a movie, a stage play, an opera, a themepark, a video game, etc. next time you go grocery shopping, go to an all natural store... one of those places where they didn't drop pesticides and such on their crops, they tended everything by hand and with all natural means. i'm telling you, $8 truly fresh squeezed orange juice taste so much better than that Florida Premium whatever you buy that is concentrated. you pay more for the finer things. the same is true with weapons in a crafting community.
if there were no crafting community, i wouldn't have any thing to say about this. there is, though. why? because this is based on the star wars life. you have a chance to be a combatant, an entertainer, a healer, a hunter, or even a sales person. it trult is the most unique idea yet. those who complain about prices here complain about them in real life too. alll i can say is work smarter, learn to budget, and figure out what is actually worth the convenience and what is not. to me, it is worth an extra $100 a night to sleep in a nice hotel on the nice side of town. to others, that's a waste when you can drop $40 on a motel 6 because you're spending most of your time on the town anyway. it's preference. you are the one who would rather run the quest for the rifle, and i am the one who would rather save time by paying for it...
at any rate, there are some of the examples you have been clammoring for, and proof that your beloved WS is, in fact, taking advantage of a conversion glitch. ranged weapons should be SAC in the low 100s - mid 110s, depending on where they spend their points. melee should ALWAYS be over 100 SAC, but they do vary greatly. anthing you see that is 300 and up taht does not say "krayt" somewhere on it, or the creator discloses that it is not krayt were made with pre-CU components, components i am now trying to get fixed the way i am fighting for my profession members to compete with loot and rewards. we dont have to be better than what you can get, we just have to be comparable in some way. i would PREFER that to hapen through an increasing of our abilities, but if it requires loot and rewards to be nerfed, then that is what it takes. hate me if you want, but if you were in my position you would be doing the same thing i am. even if you were going about it differently, your end goal would be the same.
JimtaviusII
Fri May 20, 2005 2:18 pm
#46
Mor-Dan wrote:
let me clue some of you in on some facts...
these stats ARE matchable by a Weaponsmith using enhancements. if the enhancers are good enough, s/he can beat these stats. this is an example of what a good loot/quest reward item is. it is good enough that most weaponsmiths can't touch it, yet restricted enough that someone who can get a hold of the enhancers can match it or beat it. this leaves two options for the player: i can pay in time, or i can pay in cash. you now choose to either get your rifle through doing the quest, or paying a premium price to save that time.
Mor-dan, thx for admission that crafters can match quest items. So what your really saying is because you can't produce them by the crate your mad?
Message Edited by JimtaviusII on 05-20-2005 04:20 PM
-Dax
Fri May 20, 2005 3:23 pm
#47
Wow, did you just ignore his whole post? Or are you really so dumb you didnt realize what he was saying?
JimtaviusII
Fri May 20, 2005 3:51 pm
#48
Maybe I don't understand. I won't post anymore, sorry to hijack your thread.
Arryth
Fri May 20, 2005 3:51 pm
#49
GadonThek wrote:
averyz wrote:
I always thought the new guns were going to be like the Geo Schmatic, something a crafter would have to make
Giving a already crafted gun is an insult to the crafters along with all the nerfs and making minings sucide runs ( and lazy )
I'm not even a crafter, I'm a Jedi who ruins the GCW and makes people quit.
no one can win in this game lol
What is insulting is the fact that crafters seem to think that nobody should be able to get any items in SWG from anyone but them. So we finally have some good loot weapons that are not horribly overpowered and dont take a month of solid loot-camping to get; so what, you can make comparible weapons, get over yourselves.
Combat characters deserve the chance to get some cool rewards for all their questing, rather than just a fecking "Imperial Plans 3/4" and a couple of thousand credits.
I agree. Quest loot should be quite nice.. other wise, why do the quest at all??
GadonThek
Fri May 20, 2005 4:19 pm
#50
Mor-Dan wrote:
let me clue some of you in on some facts...
if your weapon's base DPS, as far as rifle's and carbines are concerned, is around 310-320dps with a SAC of less than 100, it is either krayted, or pre-cu parts were used. the weapon stocks from pre-cu converted with -20 SAC, no speed addition, and add 40/40dmg to the weapon. post CU stocks add speed, CAN reduce upto -21 SAC, but not without adding .1 speed to your weapon (subtract about 5.5% from your dps), and they get no damage bonus, so remove 40/40 from your min/max, or about 16dps. adv projectile feed mechs converted with -2.0spd, 23/50dmg, and -6 SAC. this would require beyond 100% experimentation on dmg, 100% on speed, and close to 100% on SAC. last time i checked we don't get 30 experimentation points, just 10, 12 max.
the best Adv Laser Rifle on my server using all post CU parts is 290-ish DPS with a SAC of around 108. how many quest reward rifles are less than 300dps and more than 100 SAC?
now let's look at pistols, as it was a pistol that initially caused me to start this post, aside from things like the proton carbine which is 320s DPS and i can't remember the SAC, but it is below 100.
there is a quest reward pistol that is 330s range, soemthing like that (was talking to a PvPer on my server about his best pistol), and SAC75. the BEST pistol you can make on my server using pre-CU parts that have -6 SAC will reach that SAC level, but will be more than 100 LESS in dps. you can't tell me that someone else's server has such incredible resources that they can reach these heights even though we can't with POST CU parts. there's a reason i was named a correspondent and it is because i know my profession...
now let's trun to unarmed weapons (hehe, there's an oxymoron)...
Knuckles of the Katarn
Speed: 2
Damage: 358-715
Elemental: 120 cold
acc: 0
wound 2.7
Dps : 328
Sac: 75
the only CL54 set of knuckles in the game. nothing over 40 can currently be crafted, which means two things: if you don't have ROTW, you can't get run the quest for these, and thus are forced to use your bare hands or pay an insane price to LOOTERS, who are the real cause of the price inflations, to get one that hasn't been bio-linked yet. not only is the SAC not possible on ANY unarmed weapon, it isn't possible on ANY crafted melee weapon.
THIS is how the quest rewards should look, remember the Adv Laser I told you about?
Trandoshan Hunting Rifle
DMG: 520-1040
Spd: 2.5
Base DPS 312
SAC: 95
these stats ARE matchable by a Weaponsmith using enhancements. if the enhancers are good enough, s/he can beat these stats. this is an example of what a good loot/quest reward item is. it is good enough that most weaponsmiths can't touch it, yet restricted enough that someone who can get a hold of the enhancers can match it or beat it. this leaves two options for the player: i can pay in time, or i can pay in cash. you now choose to either get your rifle through doing the quest, or paying a premium price to save that time.
that, my freinds, is the very nature of business. you pay extra for extra conveniences. you pay common prices for common everyday things like bubble gum, a hamburger, 80k mile tires, and things like that. however, if you want to be entertained, you pay a premium for a movie, a stage play, an opera, a themepark, a video game, etc. next time you go grocery shopping, go to an all natural store... one of those places where they didn't drop pesticides and such on their crops, they tended everything by hand and with all natural means. i'm telling you, $8 truly fresh squeezed orange juice taste so much better than that Florida Premium whatever you buy that is concentrated. you pay more for the finer things. the same is true with weapons in a crafting community.
if there were no crafting community, i wouldn't have any thing to say about this. there is, though. why? because this is based on the star wars life. you have a chance to be a combatant, an entertainer, a healer, a hunter, or even a sales person. it trult is the most unique idea yet. those who complain about prices here complain about them in real life too. alll i can say is work smarter, learn to budget, and figure out what is actually worth the convenience and what is not. to me, it is worth an extra $100 a night to sleep in a nice hotel on the nice side of town. to others, that's a waste when you can drop $40 on a motel 6 because you're spending most of your time on the town anyway. it's preference. you are the one who would rather run the quest for the rifle, and i am the one who would rather save time by paying for it...
at any rate, there are some of the examples you have been clammoring for, and proof that your beloved WS is, in fact, taking advantage of a conversion glitch. ranged weapons should be SAC in the low 100s - mid 110s, depending on where they spend their points. melee should ALWAYS be over 100 SAC, but they do vary greatly. anthing you see that is 300 and up taht does not say "krayt" somewhere on it, or the creator discloses that it is not krayt were made with pre-CU components, components i am now trying to get fixed the way i am fighting for my profession members to compete with loot and rewards. we dont have to be better than what you can get, we just have to be comparable in some way. i would PREFER that to hapen through an increasing of our abilities, but if it requires loot and rewards to be nerfed, then that is what it takes. hate me if you want, but if you were in my position you would be doing the same thing i am. even if you were going about it differently, your end goal would be the same.
Well, thanks for finally providing the data behind your assertions. It's a terrible shame, however, that they are absolutely worthless as a comparison between weapons.
Seeing as Im, to put it mildly, a lazy noodle-munching student, I thought I would just steal some test data from the Carbineer boards. They compare one of the weapons you claim to be oh-so-uber with a crafted Elite Carbine: Click.
So then, are you still going to try and get weapons such as the Proton Carbine nerfed, even though this test clearly shows that the crafted weapon was superior, or are you going to try devoting your time to something worthwhile like pushing to have the bugs in your profession fixed.
Message Edited by GadonThek on 05-21-2005 01:22 AM
AriesMercwar
Fri May 20, 2005 6:18 pm
#51
I Agree with Mor-Dan.
Keep this in Mind next time you complain about a high priced, high damage crafted Weapon..........
Looters charge us Weaponsmiths (and Armoursmiths etc.)Insane amounts of Credits for loot components, whether it be Krayt Tissue or whatever component the Smith is looking for at the time. Therefore ( as any business/economics major will tell you ) We must pass our Costs on to our customers. If we pay 1 miilion credits for a really nice set of Krayt tissue and we don't charge that million, Plus the cost of our Resources, we lose money. Now tell me, who in their right mind is out to intentionally lose money?
If you want to complain about weapon prices, or any crafted item's price,why don't you go to the Loot section of the Forumsand complain to the Looters who charge these insane prices for their looted components.
So next time you are selling some loot for a bunch of credits, just remember this. What goes around, Comes around. It's called Karma.
Crafters don't "Ruin" the game, Looters do by charging high prices.
As far as the Quest weapons and Quest armour goes, I really don't care, your quest weapons are going to eventually fall apart, decay or what not ( unless you ADK'd Every single one of them ) Once those weapons/armour finally die off you will all be asking us to craft you an "Uber" Weapon/ Set of armour, to replace it.
Message Edited by AriesMercwar on 05-20-2005 06:25 PM
bgold4
Fri May 20, 2005 6:53 pm
#52
Arryth wrote:
GadonThek wrote:
averyz wrote:
I always thought the new guns were going to be like the Geo Schmatic, something a crafter would have to make
Giving a already crafted gun is an insult to the crafters along with all the nerfs and making minings sucide runs ( and lazy )
I'm not even a crafter, I'm a Jedi who ruins the GCW and makes people quit.
no one can win in this game lol
What is insulting is the fact that crafters seem to think that nobody should be able to get any items in SWG from anyone but them. So we finally have some good loot weapons that are not horribly overpowered and dont take a month of solid loot-camping to get; so what, you can make comparible weapons, get over yourselves.
Combat characters deserve the chance to get some cool rewards for all their questing, rather than just a fecking "Imperial Plans 3/4" and a couple of thousand credits.
I agree. Quest loot should be quite nice.. other wise, why do the quest at all??
however there are other reasons they can make it worthwhile... such as weapons only available through quests which closely compare statwise to advanced crafted weapons