Jump To Lightspeed Archive

Excepting of course your grinding FP, and don't want to be found - which im guessing is often the case.

That said, i always fly anon no matter what i do - it helps cut down the amount of annoying tells.

EDIT:
Besides, if you want to find overts, you have to think about it. Prime places to find overts:

Datooine and Endor.

All overt imperials and rebels pass through those two sectors in transit to kessel or deepspace. Run a blockade, you'll find some. I do all the time.

Message Edited by Ducimus on 03-23-2005 04:56 PM

I wonder if we'd see more people overt if rather than having to fly to a station to go overt, it was just a choice when you launched your ship. There might be some people who don't even know how to go overt, as you're never really directed to those stations. It would also help for those who were too lazy to go overt, or those who just plain forgot.

---

atytula wrote:

---

Ducimus wrote:

Incorrect on both points.

The main reason why more people don't go overt in space is simply because, for whever reason, they do not wish to PvP.

The motivation to go overt however, is there. Space, most specfiically , Deep space, is arguably the best source of FP in the game. However, with that reward comes a risk - one most people won't take simply because they can get FP saftely on the ground, albiet at a MUCH much slower rate, or they simply aren't advanced enough in the piloting tree, or simply don't know any better.

---

For the most part, I disagree Ducimus. There are a lot of poeple that don't PvP because there are no real goals. As an example, play Xwing or Tie Fighter. They are both games where you go into space and have a specific set of objectives. Most people would not have a problem PvPing if they knew the objectives and had a good idea of the resistances.

Example: Would the Rebels send an attack squadron to take out a corevette if they new there was an ISD near by? or 4 squadrons of TIE Interceptors. No, they would either call off the mission or get a bigger attack force. Granted, there are always cases where an enemy is hiding ships, and that is fine, but in JTL (and even SWG) there is no constant. There is no "mission".

PvP shouldn't be based on being overt, but rather based on your current mission. Some basic missions will always be PvE, for those that truely don't want to PvE, but if a pilot wants more of a challenge, they can sign up for a PvP/PvE mission and will be given a set of goals. As an example, destroy a corvette, or escort bombers who are destroying a corvette. The mission would play outwith a basic NPC corvette and NPC escorts, and an NPC bomber squad would come in with their escorts. The NPCs generated would not be enough to win the mission, and that is where the players come in.

Now, PvP is only a part of a PvE and while there are variables in play, a player knows that he won't get ganked by a squadron of overt players but rather by enemy players who took the opposite mission from them (IE: if you are taking out the corvette, their mission is to protect the corvette from an expecting attack) and there could be a limit placed on the number of openings in a mission.

Another problem with PvP is it works under a different model then PvE. PvE, as you fight higher tiered NPCs, their stats go up, and when it comes to sheilds and armor, it goes up dramatically. This means, it could take as many as 50 hits to take out some Tier 5 fighters, maybe more. While the PvP component only requires 10 hits at most, depending on how good your equipment is. When the models are this different, mixing PvP with PvE becomes fustrating, so you are left with spend your time PvE or spend your time PvP, and as PvP yeilds little to no reward, people PvE.

To me, a simple way to fix this, is balance the two models. Nerf the NPC ships so they take fewer hits and deal a bit more damage, and raise the shields and armor for all players. What will happen is fighting a master pilot and fighting a tier 5 NPC will result in the same fight, except the master pilot is a player and skill becomes a factor.

---

just a quick point about this, at the highest level of looted weapons the NPCs and PCs do become remarkably similar, the difference between 1 shot and 4 or 5.(on fighters) i do agree that a disparity does cause some frustration. i would think that slightly nerfing npc armor and shields, then raising PCs to a 2-3 shot pvp system (at high level guns) using the whole "deflector instead of shield" mechanic that has been discussed would eliminate the disparity.

we always have to view our requests through the filter that not all player weapons are the same though, nerfing npcs across the bat would give the higher level players a field day, etc.

I'm always overt in space, even if I'm just helping a friend with missions. Great faction points are to be had in space, which you can only get if you're overt.

When people see an overt KSE, they think 'ooh, I'll mess him up and damage his firespray, that pretentious elitist pig!' and that's when they get a rude awakening.

>>For the most part, I disagree Ducimus. There are a lot of poeple that don't PvP because there are no real goals
>>

There is a reason, and there are goals, although most people dont realize it.

That reason is control of deepspace.

Deepspace is of strategic value now. It is quite literally, a factional base supply depot. The amount of FP to be harvested there can make base purchases fast, and ridculously easy, as well as other factional equipment.

It is a resource to be used to the fullest, or denied to the enemy.
But, again, most people dont realize this, infact, ill bet most ppl dont even realize how much FP is to be had there.

Message Edited by JoxxPuduu on 03-24-2005 06:18 PM

---

atytula wrote:

---

Ducimus wrote:

Incorrect on both points.

The main reason why more people don't go overt in space is simply because, for whever reason, they do not wish to PvP.

The motivation to go overt however, is there. Space, most specfiically , Deep space, is arguably the best source of FP in the game. However, with that reward comes a risk - one most people won't take simply because they can get FP saftely on the ground, albiet at a MUCH much slower rate, or they simply aren't advanced enough in the piloting tree, or simply don't know any better.

---

For the most part, I disagree Ducimus. There are a lot of poeple that don't PvP because there are no real goals. As an example, play Xwing or Tie Fighter. They are both games where you go into space and have a specific set of objectives. Most people would not have a problem PvPing if they knew the objectives and had a good idea of the resistances.

Example: Would the Rebels send an attack squadron to take out a corevette if they new there was an ISD near by? or 4 squadrons of TIE Interceptors. No, they would either call off the mission or get a bigger attack force. Granted, there are always cases where an enemy is hiding ships, and that is fine, but in JTL (and even SWG) there is no constant. There is no "mission".

PvP shouldn't be based on being overt, but rather based on your current mission. Some basic missions will always be PvE, for those that truely don't want to PvE, but if a pilot wants more of a challenge, they can sign up for a PvP/PvE mission and will be given a set of goals. As an example, destroy a corvette, or escort bombers who are destroying a corvette. The mission would play out with a basic NPC corvette and NPC escorts, and an NPC bomber squad would come in with their escorts. The NPCs generated would not be enough to win the mission, and that is where the players come in.

Now, PvP is only a part of a PvE and while there are variables in play, a player knows that he won't get ganked by a squadron of overt players but rather by enemy players who took the opposite mission from them (IE: if you are taking out the corvette, their mission is to protect the corvette from an expecting attack) and there could be a limit placed on the number of openings in a mission.

Another problem with PvP is it works under a different model then PvE. PvE, as you fight higher tiered NPCs, their stats go up, and when it comes to sheilds and armor, it goes up dramatically. This means, it could take as many as 50 hits to take out some Tier 5 fighters, maybe more. While the PvP component only requires 10 hits at most, depending on how good your equipment is. When the models are this different, mixing PvP with PvE becomes fustrating, so you are left with spend your time PvE or spend your time PvP, and as PvP yeilds little to no reward, people PvE.

To me, a simple way to fix this, is balance the two models. Nerf the NPC ships so they take fewer hits and deal a bit more damage, and raise the shields and armor for all players. What will happen is fighting a master pilot and fighting a tier 5 NPC will result in the same fight, except the master pilot is a player and skill becomes a factor.

---

I agree about nerfing the npc health. In rogue squadron i could kill ties with one hit. Having to fly around in circles for a while chipping away at an enemy seems just wrong, especially when pvp is completely different. I like the pvp system, but i wish i could kill npcs using the same techniques

---

TK-84 wrote:

Because space is teh el' lamo.

---

why do you even bother posting? if you don't like space then don't fly.just because you think its lame doesn't mean it is, and doesn't mean other people won't enjoy it. your opinion.

---

JoxxPuduu wrote:

A lot of you have some very good points thatI agree with to make PvP in space more enjoyable. The way I see it now, if 2 Master Pilots encounter each other in space its mostly a one or two shot scenario then its back to a station for repairs after ejecting. How fun. But really, the whole basis of JtLS was the notion that it was all about aplayers skill with a joystick or mouse and keyboard, not a uber weapon and 90% kinetic armor. Like it is on the ground. My experience in space tells me its all about shields and weapons. HeckI don't even use armor.Its inefective and takes up ship mass that could be used to maybe put that extra nice gun on your Oppressor. Look, if it takes a player 20 hits to kill another player instead of 1 or 2, that means you have the oppurtunity to make evasive moves and then we're having fun. Make it harder for us to kill each other for crap sakes. MuaHAHAHAHA!!!! But for me,I go Overt in Space everywhere, just in the hopesI run into another Overt. But the way it currently is going, that might happen 1 out of 100 times I launch in space.

Message Edited by JoxxPuduu on 03-24-2005 06:18 PM

---

>> My experience in space tells me its all about shields and weapons
>>

Not really, what chassis you use, and especially what engine you put in it is what effects you the greatest.

>>Look, if it takes a player 20 hits to kill another player instead of 1 or 2, that means you have the oppurtunity to make evasive moves and then we're having fun
>>

Not really. What happends when you have two good pilots go against each other is it takes like 10-15- even 20 secondsto score a hit. A second or two in space PvP is a long time. You have plenty of time to make evasive manuvers. The thing is if you make it take 20 hits to kill someone, no one will ever die. No ones going to fly still for you, and In those 10-15 seconds it takes to score a hit, is almost the same time it takes to shunt your capacitor to shield and now your back to square one.

---

TK-84 wrote:

Because space is teh el' lamo.

---

Spoken like a template stacker. Ain't no buffs, no 80% composite, no defensive stacking to hide behind up in space; and no, grinding umpteen hours to be jedi for the instawins wont help you either. Its all about your skill as a player, not how long you spend grinding artificial skills on your toon.

Space PvP, for people who don't need a crutch to be compedative. If you can't handle it, stay on the ground.