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Thread: To those who feel that the unwilling should be forced into PvP to master Pilot....
LowbaTherf wrote:
may I ask you a question? Why should the developers not be able to put restrictions on a master level profession? Becoming a master level pilot means you get to fly special ships and get special skills. It is not forced onto players, it is a choice just like Jedi. If you do not want to PvP, you don't get the special ships.
It's not a choice. If it were, the statement should read:
"Either you PVP, or you'll live with an expansion with absolutely no content".
... Because there is no actual content, save the multipassenger ships and the content that wewill supposedly be able to unlock with prestige points. (Yes, I know prestige points currently only unlocks a PVP area) If a pilot stays at 4-4-4-4, he will have a rather useless expansion on his hands.
yahweh666 wrote:
Vikassi wrote:Cause its fun dude....Stop playing against AI all the time and play against the real thing.....If you dont like it stay on the ground and go perform genocide on your durni's!Have some fun once in awhile.........Message Edited by Vikassi on 10-28-2004 10:16 AM
Yet another brain dead PVP nut, that thinks in order for me to have fun in a game I have to PVP.
Maybe for me to have fun, I dont have to have PVP? ever think of that.
Oh never mind I forgot people like you cant think.
This is exactly the type of post he was talking about - You do NOT present a good point on why the forced PVP is bad, all you do is flame the people who dont think it's bad.
I myself do not pvp on the ground, and rarely PVP'd in space during beta (only to help test out kessel), but i am all for the final mission being in the PVP zones. The mission is a PVE mission, it just happens to be in a VERY DANGEROUS zone... What makes it dangerous? The fact that the objects attacking you are actually reactive, and can think. This is something that a machine can't do nearly as well as a human, and the reason that these missions were put where they are. The NPC AI can only get so hard before it caps out, a player however can constantly keep getting harder and harder to beat as they practice.
Having the final mission(s) in the PVP zone was a move to prove that space is a dangerous place, if you can't handle being in a dangerous place, you are not qualified to be recognized as an Ace Pilot.
That's exactly what I've been asking in several threads so far, all I have gotten are arguments that tended to grow into insults like "grow some balls" and such... I've been asking the "pro" people how these missions can be justified, when they just as easily could be made without upsettinga large bulk of the SWG players. None have yet come up with a good reason.
FalinMor wrote:
...I have to ask a simple question.
Why?
I have yet to hear an actual good reason why a group of people should be forced into a playstyle they don't enjoy. There are no negative effects of moving the Master missions out of a PvP zone.None. So I'm very curious as to why some (few) of you feel so strongly that people should be forced into PvP.
FalinMor wrote:
Others don't have the same idea of fun as you do.
Yup. That's why I demand a Jedi character (and system of play) that doesn't ever involve me in PvP. It doesn't fit my playstyle.
Respectfully,
HuntingOhioan wrote:
Because I dont want to spend a month flying around at odd times looking for REAL people to help me advance. "Would you be my Master Level Kill pleaase??? Preety please??? I'll let you kill me a few times after sir/ma'am.
I think I understand what you're saying. You think that the missions actually involve killing other players, correct?
They don't. They all involve killing AI targets, exactly like all the other missions. The only difference is that the Master missions take place in a permanent PvP zone. You can kill as many other players during the missions as you want to, and it will do NOTHING to help you actually finish the mission. The mission objectives are still AI, not players.
Falin
YamadaMan wrote:
PvP in space is fun, ok let's all agree with that point, but PvP at EQUAL LEVELS then, not master against non master, the biggest issue is that a 4444 pilot with level 7 and 8 equipement can't stand a single chance against a master with a master ship, total level 10 equipement and throw in 2 turret operators. that's just not fair, if you're fencer 4444 you won't stand a chance against a master fencer
the issue is 4444 pilots forced to PvP against Master pilots, and that's not even the point of the mission, you still got to take down a kickarse corvette, so spend your missiles/countermeasures while you camp the 2 hours spawnpoint, defending your own a$$, then when the corvette spawn, in the best case you got 70ish% condition equipement, no missiles, no countermeasure, cause you had to defend your batt.
There will never be a ship with all level 10 components in it (unless maybe it's a POB, but that may still be pushing it). Mass allowances in ships are WAY too low to allow level 10 components across the board.
Secondly, POB ships which you define as very very dangerous move about as fast as the vette, and the pilot can only fire the missles, turret gunners are REQUIRED, and anyone can man a turret in any zone.
POB ships are hard because they can shoot at you from any angle, but shooting in a POB is very hard work as the turret reticle is susceptable to ship rotation and movement, you dont hit all the time like you do when you're the pilot.
Lastly, you dont 'wait for spawns' in these zones, you FIND one of the current spawns...
FalinMor wrote:
LowbaTherf wrote:
may I ask you a question? Why should the developers not be able to put restrictions on a master level profession? Becoming a master level pilot means you get to fly special ships and get special skills. It is not forced onto players, it is a choice just like Jedi. If you do not want to PvP, you don't get the special ships. If you ant the special ships you don't get to shy away from PvP. If I want to be a shipwright or droid engineer, I have to make things that aren't droids, and aren't spaceships. And if I don't want to craft, I choose another profession. Unless I think it is worth it to be able to build a ship or droid. So, make a choice, PvP, or a lesser ship. I believe it is a fair choice.
P.S. I agree about disliking PvP. Lost many a good land speeder to PvP. _ _ So I run around covert now instead of overt.
As I've said, my point is that there's NO GOOD REASON to do it at all. The developers can do whatever they want, it's their game. But I'm asking you to give a good reason why they SHOULD do it. I honestly don't think there is one. I've seen plenty of bad reasons that only make sense to selfish people and griefers, but that's about it.
Falin
I do agree with that. So far all the "reasons" to PvP are "Stop crying Wuss Baby N00B!!!!1!! I will Pwn you LOLOLOL!!!!" We can agre on this point.
GotEgg wrote:
yahweh666 wrote:
Vikassi wrote:
Cause its fun dude....Stop playing against AI all the time and play against the real thing.....If you dont like it stay on the ground and go perform genocide on your durni's!
Have some fun once in awhile.........
Message Edited by Vikassi on 10-28-2004 10:16 AM
Yet another brain dead PVP nut, that thinks in order for me to have fun in a game I have to PVP.
Maybe for me to have fun, I dont have to have PVP? ever think of that.
Oh never mind I forgot people like you cant think.
This is exactly the type of post he was talking about - You do NOT present a good point on why the forced PVP is bad, all you do is flame the people who dont think it's bad.
I myself do not pvp on the ground, and rarely PVP'd in space during beta (only to help test out kessel), but i am all for the final mission being in the PVP zones. The mission is a PVE mission, it just happens to be in a VERY DANGEROUS zone... What makes it dangerous? The fact that the objects attacking you are actually reactive, and can think. This is something that a machine can't do nearly as well as a human, and the reason that these missions were put where they are. The NPC AI can only get so hard before it caps out, a player however can constantly keep getting harder and harder to beat as they practice.
Having the final mission(s) in the PVP zone was a move to prove that space is a dangerous place, if you can't handle being in a dangerous place, you are not qualified to be recognized as an Ace Pilot.
Note: I'm getting out of this debate now....cause I don't think it can be 'won' (in a way that will affect a satisfactory game change or system for all players).
FalinMor wrote:
Although, Jedi are a bit different.
NO! No different. "Only different in your mind..."
They are the same thing: A 'reward'
For that,there should be risk.
No such statements were ever made for mastering the pilot professions.
They don't have to make such statements about how the systems will work (in every detail).
It doesn't matter...
Mastering in the PvP zone only requires that you be IN the zone (not that you actually fight others).
/shrug
/bow
Respectfully,
Message Edited by TheRealTK421 on 10-28-2004 10:45 AM
Vicotnik wrote:
LowbaTherf wrote:
may I ask you a question? Why should the developers not be able to put restrictions on a master level profession? Becoming a master level pilot means you get to fly special ships and get special skills. It is not forced onto players, it is a choice just like Jedi. If you do not want to PvP, you don't get the special ships.
It's not a choice. If it were, the statement should read:
"Either you PVP, or you'll live with an expansion with absolutely no content".
... Because there is no actual content, save the multipassenger ships and the content that wewill supposedly be able to unlock with prestige points. (Yes, I know prestige points currently only unlocks a PVP area) If a pilot stays at 4-4-4-4, he will have a rather useless expansion on his hands.
FalinMor wrote:I agree. That's not a reason.
Although, Jedi are a bit different. From the getgo it was stated that Jedi would be hunted by NPCs and PCs alike. No such statements were ever made for mastering the pilot professions.
Falin
From the getgo the devs stated that space would be a dangerous place - Please see my previous post in this thread about danger.
GotEgg wrote:
FalinMor wrote:
I agree. That's not a reason.
Although, Jedi are a bit different. From the getgo it was stated that Jedi would be hunted by NPCs and PCs alike. No such statements were ever made for mastering the pilot professions.
Falin
From the getgo the devs stated that space would be a dangerous place - Please see my previous post in this thread about danger.
It IS a dangerous place. The Master missions are already unsoloable as they currently are, even without being harassed by other players. The the manual and old loading screens on SWG also say that Dathomir and the Krayt graveyardare dangerous places, but I don't see any permanent PvP there, do you? Dangerous != PvP.
All I'm asking for is a good reason to do it. I doubt I'll ever get one.
Falin
LowbaTherf wrote:
Vicotnik wrote:
LowbaTherf wrote:
may I ask you a question? Why should the developers not be able to put restrictions on a master level profession? Becoming a master level pilot means you get to fly special ships and get special skills. It is not forced onto players, it is a choice just like Jedi. If you do not want to PvP, you don't get the special ships.
It's not a choice. If it were, the statement should read:
"Either you PVP, or you'll live with an expansion with absolutely no content".
... Because there is no actual content, save the multipassenger ships and the content that wewill supposedly be able to unlock with prestige points. (Yes, I know prestige points currently only unlocks a PVP area) If a pilot stays at 4-4-4-4, he will have a rather useless expansion on his hands.
and a useful ground game. If you don't want to fight other players, you don't need to waste money on the expansion pack. And when/if they add PvE space content, then you can go out and buy the expansion pack. It all boils down to the fact that you have a choice in all of this. The Developers are not forcing PvP.
But it's NOT a choice. You can't just stop at 4-4-4-4 and say: "Ok, I think I'm not going to master." Had it been written in big, bold text on the box of the game that "To enjoy this expansion fully, you will need to participate in PVP" then it would have been true.
The way it is now, to enjoy the core of the expansion (Space and the pilot professions), you have to PVP. This is similar to if all the ground professions would need PVP to be enjoyed fully too. It's as if the ground dungeons and such required you to do two rather painful PVE quests while Overt, and in an area mostly populated by other overts.
And yet, the original question still remains: Why? Can someone please point out one good reason for these missions instead of just repeating what other people have already said a hundred times?