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Thread: JTL loses to old fighter games
Untill me and 11 other friends can all jump in IDENTICAL Ships* and fight in the following type of set-up I wont be happy.
Rebel Side: 1 Mon Calamari Cruiser with 1 A-Wing, 1 B-Wing and1 X-Wing Squadron.
Imperial Side: 1 Imperial Star Destroyer with 3 TIE Fighter Squadron, 2 TIE Interceptor Squadron and 1 TIE Bomber Squadron.
Objective: Defend the MCC from attack and Destroy the ISD.
How it should play: The B-Wings and MCCattack the ISD. The ISD and TIE Bombers attack the MCC.
The X-Wings and TIE Fighters fly support for both sides (So it is likely they will engage each other first).
The A-Wings and TIE Interceptors protect the B-Wings and TIE Bombers from fighter attack.
Once the fighter screen of 1 side has been destroyed the remaining fighters will aid in the attack of the other sides capitol ship.
1 Squadron = 12 Fighters. In this scenario the Rebels are outnumbered 2:1.
Most ships will be NPC controled, Player Ships will be able to give NPC ships orders (Follow Me, Attack Target, Attack Target Component, Guard Target, Attack Target Type ect).
I used to set this up in X-Wing Alliance, why we don't have it in JtLS is beyond me, this is the classic Rebel Vs. Imperial engagment.
*IDENTICAL Ships = By this I mean all X-Wings stats are identicle to all other X-Wings, they all fly at the exactly thesame maximumspeed, they all have identical Pitch/Yaw/Roll, the weapons do 1 set amount of damage (no variable from 1500-3000).
Infact I think the way the game works absolutily sucks. They should have just used the exact same set-up as the X-Wing games, it would have made things so much more simple and fun. This doesn't mean you could not customise the look of your ship you would still be able to do that as it would not effect the stats. You would still also be able to have meetings on MP ships. Shipwrights would still make things, there would just be no variation in stats, EVERYONE would be on a level playing feild, currently the best players have the best components, which means the less skilled player are not only the disadvantage of not being as good as the better players, it also means that there equipment is not even which puts them at an even further disadvantage. Also the way ship configuration workssucks. Bring back the management system of theX-Wing games too. Let me adjust my power settings so that instead of my X-Wing going at 100.0 KMPH it goes at 75.0 KMPH with the Lasers Rechargeing.
Infact why am I even playing this? I am off to go play X-Wing Alliance!
in a game like this PvP space combat will NEVER be popular, so long as you can lose what took you a very long time to get very quickly and or have to get up to masterpilot before you can even consider taking any people on or let alone travelling to deep space PvP is so rare it makes the get near the level of suckage in space. its pretty much a pimp your ride and shoot down mindless AI and maybe see a guy you can shoot at and probably not even have an eventfull fight with.
If i recall right most of the real action in the movies was either glowstick fights or large scale battles. You just wont see it in a game like this where you have to spend so much time to even get good enough to last more than a few shots or not get stuck in a stalemate forl ike 10 minutes with someone.
Grambacca wrote:
JediGohan wrote:
I agree, I just recently reinstalled X-Wing Alliance and put in the patch so it has better graphics and it doesnt compare to the number of things you can do in JTL.
Maybe you cant refit your ship with different components, which frankly I dont care because it's not worth the bother to me for a game like XWA. it beats JTL anyday
The problem with these type games though is that they are linear and once you have completed all teh missions the game is done. No more missions, no more storyline, no moree nothing. BORING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JTL will continue to add new missions and quests making it a never ending game! THAT is why JTL is infintely better than any off the shelf box game out there. PERIOD.
Umm. yes you can continue to destroy wave after wave of fighters, deliver mails and protect freighters all night long - still the same old sh-t and it get s real old real fast.
Amuro0079 wrote:
LOL, that's one of the things that make JTL less star-warsy.
Yes, yes, the single player story lines were better in X-Wing/TIE/XvT/X-WingAlliance.
One time through.
I broke out XwA a couple months ago for kicks. Guess what? It didn't get better the 3rd time around. I loved the old games, but they are dead. The flight part of this one is not. There are still many upgrades they can and might do to it, so, that in and of itself, makes it the winner.
Darth-Malus wrote:
Amuro0079 wrote:
LOL, that's one of the things that make JTL less star-warsy.
Riiiiiight... because NONE of the ships in Star Wars were EVER modified, right? Right?
I'm sure he knows they were modified. But when an Imperial is using a Kimogila Fighter against a Gunboat or something it looks kinda weird.
I know what i'm about to say might get a lot of flames but if you see the movies like ROTJ, the ending space battle IS diverse in terms of ships that were flown, but you dont see TIE Interceptors shooting bright blue blasts.
And that's another thing, when are we ever going to see individual-firing animation? I dont like how the TIE Interceptor shoots all 4 lasers at once. Same for all other ships.
R9D14 wrote:
in a game like this PvP space combat will NEVER be popular, so long as you can lose what took you a very long time to get very quickly and or have to get up to masterpilot before you can even consider taking any people on or let alone travelling to deep space PvP is so rare it makes the get near the level of suckage in space. its pretty much a pimp your ride and shoot down mindless AI and maybe see a guy you can shoot at and probably not even have an eventfull fight with.
If i recall right most of the real action in the movies was either glowstick fights or large scale battles. You just wont see it in a game like this where you have to spend so much time to even get good enough to last more than a few shots or not get stuck in a stalemate forl ike 10 minutes with someone.
PvP in JTL doesn't have anything to do with being a master pilot. The master starfighters arn't that impressive and POB ships are useless in PvP.
If you want PvP you have to organize it. The game doesn't provide for it on it's own. You are probably only going to last a few shots in any JTL PvP engagement no matter what you are flying.
LOL, that's one of the things that make JTL less star-warsy.
Washell wrote:
Ezedriel wrote:
While the original poster was very inadequate in his explanation, I daresay, I just got a copy of TIE fighter (not even the Windows version, the old DOS version with basic geometry for graphics) and franky, it beats JTL in every manner except graphics - which themselves are unimportant.
That game doesn't allow you to modify your ships, so it doesn't beat JTL in every manner.
Among the spacegames that have been published in the last 15 years are plenty of elements that have been done better then JTL. But JTL is the first to be hooked to a MMO and this comes with a whole set of design restrictions.
- Sadly, what should be the strongest point of JTL, being hooked to an MMO, has failed completely. Everything can be done solo. PvP is not appealing to large group of players.
- Singleplayer spacesims have their storylines. JTL lacks any incentive post master to keep flying 'cept the fun, fp and the RE game.
- The ship modifying is the best ever done (compared to privateer 1&2 and freelancer)
- Graphics are the best ever too (compared to all wing commanders, lucasarts sims, freelancer, starlancer and both privateers)
- Flightmodels are always a matter of personal preference. I have no problems with the ones in JTL. But plenty of people around that prefer the old lucasarts flightmodels.
- Ship variety in terms of models is biggest ever but in terms of stats and flight model a lot seems to be templated with some extra mass and gunslots thrown in. Rebels are the only group that have a selection of distinct ships in appearance and handling. (compared to all wing commanders, lucasarts sims, freelancer, starlancer and both privateers)
- Missiles are worthless. In most/all other spacesims they packed a hefty punch andhave a range advantage.. Usually required torpedoes to take out capships. In the time it takes to take a lock in JTL you can dish out 10x times the damage with your blasters
- AI is very limited, all ships do the same thing. Wing Commander I, that ran on a 286 (16 MHz clockspeed), had enemy AI manouvering differently. Dralthi had big wings thus no visibility to the sides, so they preferred to go up or down. Jalthi had 6 guns upfront so they always manouvered for head-on passes. I was able to predict their their next 2 or 3 manouvers but then it stopped. In JTL I can engage a wing of 9 enemies and from the initial merge to the death of the last I know what each of them is doing.
All in all, the AI doesn't give a challenge because PvP is supposed to do that. PvP is rare on most servers since there is so little incentive for pilots to go up.I still want a challenge soI solo group content. With blindspots, droid programs, tactics and some skills this turns out to be fairly easy. So now I'm mostly flying for the RE game. It is enough content/fun for me becauseI'm a spacesim geek anyway.
Dark Age of Camelot had PvP zones with relics that gave bonusses to your side if you captured them. It has a website which lists by player and by guild how much realmpoints (given in PvP) they gained. These greatly stimulate PvP. Getting yourself and your guild to the #1 spot for all the world to see is more fun then to destroy a bunch of bases to change a planet from rebel to imp or vice versa which carries no real consequences. I really wish SOE would implement such a system in SWG for both ground and space.
What you get out of games like TIE Fighter and X-Wing alliance are a feeling of ambience.
You are without a doubt a part of a grand Empire in TIE Fighter, and you have clear commanders, who give you orders, and you play as a part of a cohesive team.
If a plan isn't going correctly, you can trust that Rho Squadron will quickly come to back you up, or a Victory Star Dsetroyer is just a jump away. You feel that taking out that convoy, without a doubt, has slowed down the enemy advance.
That doesn't occur in JTL. Even the escort missions are no more than simply flying next to a freighter that has terrible dialogue.
Graphics don't make a game.