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Thread: LAME #%@ PVP
DoktorPulp
Thu Nov 04, 2004 6:54 am
#14
but 2 or 3 hits to kill a YT1300 is not realistic...start thinking about that!
lexington23
Thu Nov 04, 2004 7:01 am
#15
I don't know what YT you fought, but a properly equiped one takes quite a few hits to kill
GadonThek
Thu Nov 04, 2004 7:06 am
#16
Im going to have to diagree here. I take it most of you have watched the movies? How long did Vader's TIE Advanced take to kill the ships in the Death Star trenches: 2 minutes? No, about 4 shots from his blasters and they died. Do you know why they died that quickly? Because they were boxed in with no room to manuver.
The only way to stay alive is to be AWARE. Continual visual scanning. Periodic cycling through targets(player AND NPC, you dont want to get jumped by a flight of tier 4's when your dogfighting). Know the names of the REALLY good pilots and run like hell when they show up.
Its not fun to die quickly, I understand that, but JTL is not like groud-based PvP, you cant solo it, you cant use an uber-template, buffs, food and armour to last for ages, the only things between you and death are you and your 'stick, and thats the way it should be.
The only way to stay alive is to be AWARE. Continual visual scanning. Periodic cycling through targets(player AND NPC, you dont want to get jumped by a flight of tier 4's when your dogfighting). Know the names of the REALLY good pilots and run like hell when they show up.
Its not fun to die quickly, I understand that, but JTL is not like groud-based PvP, you cant solo it, you cant use an uber-template, buffs, food and armour to last for ages, the only things between you and death are you and your 'stick, and thats the way it should be.
Bleemo
Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:13 am
#17
if the 75% reduction gets in it will take the starwars feeling,
but then they should do it on the ground also
jedi should be able to kill in 2 hits,... think about it.
my opinion is, there shld be a reduction, if u are good u can
out maneuver the shots anyway. but its more fun to fight 30 secs
than 2 secs. than it will be the skill and equipment matter, not
the who was lucky enough to sneak up and had the first lucky shot.
but then they should do it on the ground also
jedi should be able to kill in 2 hits,... think about it.
my opinion is, there shld be a reduction, if u are good u can
out maneuver the shots anyway. but its more fun to fight 30 secs
than 2 secs. than it will be the skill and equipment matter, not
the who was lucky enough to sneak up and had the first lucky shot.
rahzael
Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:50 am
#18
Bleemo wrote:
my opinion is, there shld be a reduction, if u are good u can
out maneuver the shots anyway. but its more fun to fight 30 secs
than 2 secs. than it will be the skill and equipment matter, not
the who was lucky enough to sneak up and had the first lucky shot.
this is the point.
those who wish to keep it as is just dont look beyond themselves. they need to realize that although for them a 2 hit battle is fun, alot of people wont enjoy it. they are skilled most likely, and deserve the edge, but they also need to realize that this game is also played by people who arent godly at flight sims.
who is worse off: the player who is "forced" to play 30 seconds longer to kill a player because of a reduction in damage, although hell still manage the kill
, or the player who dies in two hits and gives up in pvp.
please just look at it from all angles. i know it would hurt it for you if it took you substantially longer to kill someone, but look at the other side...dying in 2 seconds is alot more frustrating than killing your enemy in 30.
truewildman
Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:55 am
#19
There's another thread on this. I think we're not seeing full shileds yet until the Master Shipwrights have had a chance to do their arithmetic on the numbers.
Remember when composite first came out? We never saw anything with better than 50% resists. After armorsmiths had some time to figure it out, they are able to now produce 90% composite.
I think the same will happen with shields. Shipwright is a huge profession. Let's give them some time before we quickly condemn PvP, eh? 
If they nerf damage, then shipwrights figure out shields, we'll never do damage, then it's ground PvP all over again.
Message Edited by truewildman on 11-04-2004 07:56 AM
RPMayhem
Thu Nov 04, 2004 9:11 am
#20
Dookay wrote:
Third in response to 1-2 hits killing a YT-1300, that can only happen on another capital ship, or missles, which make sense, either you have terrible shields and armor on your YT, or you have not seen one in real PvP, my friend has a Decimator and I know for a fact that his shields are well above the 10k mark and armor as well. Plus the guns on his ship turn out something like 5k damage, so no bomb toting fighter should ever get in range. However little craft like my advance can fly circles around his guns, thus BALANCE. He need little interceptors, and I need his capital ship crushing cannons, a 75% reduction would make me useless.
The other day I had a decimator attack me in kessel. It was a ton of fun. I was flying my a-wing and was able to dodge and move to get good shots on him. When my friend in his x-wing got there, I pulled up behind the decimator and his guns were all focused on me. So I just jinked around dodging the laser fire while my friend swooped in with his x-wing to quickly finish him off. In no way, shape or form did it take 1-2 hits to kill...it was more like the stats you describe above. The whole fight only lasted about 20-30 seconds, but the decimator hit me about 2 times in my front and killed all my shields and almost all my armor. (i think the guns weren't as strong as your friend has though, as my shield is about 1.7k and my armor is only 500, so 1 hit from a 5k gun would have killed me)
Guillero
Thu Nov 04, 2004 9:20 am
#21
The whole story about this is that this has been discovered and mentioned in BETA already!
And they haven't done anything about it! Sadly :/
Point here is...that is PvP game breaking:
There are always players who like to grief and try to spit at FUN gameplay and just like to Destroy some one elses fun! ALWAYS!
So they figure out where the player spawns are and just start waiting at the spawnpoints and when a new player enters ...BANG...DEAD! And keep doing that for EASY XP and Experience points!
That's why they introduced the famous "Spawn Protection" with timestamp in other PvP games like FPS games!!
So this issue is easily being solved to add Spawn Protection timein the PvP area's! As you already appear into space for your oponent and you are still looking at the loading screen! 
Then what you got to see is the You being blown up movie!
If you introduce Spawn Protection Time ...then a player get time to orientate himself and get a chance to pull his trottle forward!
AND YES...I know what some people gonna think
......When you are still under spawn protection (people with fast PC and so fast loading times) cannot do Damage till Spawn Protection time has passed ofcourse!
greetz
Message Edited by Guillero on 11-04-2004 08:21 AM
RPMayhem
Thu Nov 04, 2004 9:26 am
#22
Guillero wrote:The whole story about this is that this has been discovered and mentioned in BETA already!And they haven't done anything about it! Sadly :/Point here is...that is PvP game breaking:There are always players who like to grief and try to spit at FUN gameplay and just like to Destroy some one elses fun! ALWAYS!So they figure out where the player spawns are and just start waiting at the spawnpoints and when a new player enters ...BANG...DEAD! And keep doing that for EASY XP and Experience points!That's why they introduced the famous "Spawn Protection" with timestamp in other PvP games like FPS games!!So this issue is easily being solved to add Spawn Protection time in the PvP area's! As you already appear into space for your oponent and you are still looking at the loading screen!Then what you got to see is the You being blown up movie!If you introduce Spawn Protection Time ...then a player get time to orientate himself and get a chance to pull his trottle forward!AND YES...I know what some people gonna think......When you are still under spawn protection (people with fast PC and so fast loading times) cannot do Damage till Spawn Protection time has passed ofcourse!greetzMessage Edited by Guillero on 11-04-2004 08:21 AM
Sounds like a good idea to me! This is the only problem I have w/ PvP is the spawn killing. This could work out well.
Dookay
Thu Nov 04, 2004 9:38 am
#23
RPMayhem wrote:
Dookay wrote:
Third in response to 1-2 hits killing a YT-1300, that can only happen on another capital ship, or missles, which make sense, either you have terrible shields and armor on your YT, or you have not seen one in real PvP, my friend has a Decimator and I know for a fact that his shields are well above the 10k mark and armor as well. Plus the guns on his ship turn out something like 5k damage, so no bomb toting fighter should ever get in range. However little craft like my advance can fly circles around his guns, thus BALANCE. He need little interceptors, and I need his capital ship crushing cannons, a 75% reduction would make me useless.
The other day I had a decimator attack me in kessel. It was a ton of fun. I was flying my a-wing and was able to dodge and move to get good shots on him. When my friend in his x-wing got there, I pulled up behind the decimator and his guns were all focused on me. So I just jinked around dodging the laser fire while my friend swooped in with his x-wing to quickly finish him off. In no way, shape or form did it take 1-2 hits to kill...it was more like the stats you describe above. The whole fight only lasted about 20-30 seconds, but the decimator hit me about 2 times in my front and killed all my shields and almost all my armor. (i think the guns weren't as strong as your friend has though, as my shield is about 1.7k and my armor is only 500, so 1 hit from a 5k gun would have killed me)
Exactly this is how space combat should be, a Decimator is a devestating ship and could have crushed that X-Wing, but he would need TIE Advances, or Interceptors to deal with an agile little A-Wing like yourself. If you simply put in a genuine 75% damage reduction eventually raw lucky shots from the decimator would have killed the A-wing, and it's guns would have virtually no effect on its shields.
As for spawn camping, that is lower than low, and I hope for spawn protection, for the moment though it appears that Kessel has random spawn points, so it hasn't happened on my watch.
Vechaljian
Thu Nov 04, 2004 9:57 am
#24
Kessel Is a great Place, I like kessel, if i can get there Intact. when its Luck that I am able to Get in there Thats Not cool. so the protection when entering is a great idea. Then My next problem Is the master lvl Mission those pilot are not there to Pvp, they are there to progress. Just make a pvp and Pve versions of Kessel. only People that would cry over this change would be the griefers. Those who Enjoy true PvP want a challenge, so those Jumping in to the Pvp side would be there for the same reason. those going to the Pve side would still have the teir 5 ships to complain about. and the griefers would Just have to actually work for it.
Rodian-Gunslinger
Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:06 am
#25
Oy, complaining about the PvP and not the missions, this shouldn't happen! The PvP is amazing. It's exactly how it should be. This is a twitch game, fellas, not astat based one. Thus, it should be about skill. Know why fighters fly in formation? To scare off other fighters, that's why. As soon as one breaks the formation, he's as good as dead. Heavily armored fighters? Nah. That definately shouldn't happen. If you want stronger shields, take out your fast engine and give it a slow one. I guarantee you'll be dead faster. 75% damage reduction? Ever tried killing a Tier 5 A-Wing? It's very tough, and they don't maneuver. Giving the green players an advantage wont make them better.
This brings an example of my seccond duel ever. I was about to log and was looking for some excitement. So I randomly targetted players and asked them to duel. Finally, I found a X-Wing hanging out with a friend. I moved in and requested to duel, firing a few warning shots into it. We were about 200m away. The duel was accepted, and before I could fire my boosters and get behind the X-Wing, I was dead. Now that is how it would be if you gave a reduction. Players would play like they do in Nym's Hovel, sitting in a Y-Wing and firinig at anything that moves from a stationary position. I was frustrated at this duel, so I said "Hey, that was pretty stupid, want to try again about 1000m away from each other, outside our range?" He of course accepted, agreeing that the fight was lame. And this is how it played out...
The duel began and I fired my boosters and began to fly in a wide circle. The X (based on previous accounts) predictably fired directly at me, without trying to get behind me. A chicken fight in WWII either mean't you'd get lucky or you'd crash into the fighter. They never worked. Anyway, he fired a shot at me which my nimble interceptor dodged (964 cruise speed ROCKS!) and I came in from about 10 O'Clock and I fired two times into it's cockpit. I only saw the X for about one seccond. I hit him pretty hard, but I wasn't expecting it to be dead. As I came around for another pass, his engines were shot, and he was exploding. I immediately responded with a tell saying "That's how a dogfight should be!" I felt kinda bad, because he wasn't too enthusiastic about it... but guess what? He learned from that duel. He learned that head-ons are not a good idea.
Yesterday, I was around farming for some looted blasters in Kessel (I'm stuck on a mission that requires you to kill a Tier 4 Gunboat that kills you in two hits... not fun...) and I'm cruising around for some kills. I spot some Corsair's on my radar and I move in, instinctively engaging emergency blasters. As I come in, I notice a X-Wing firing really quickly. I said to myself "NPCs don't shoot that fast..." So I hit my target player button... nothing... hit my target nearest enemy... hey! A player! Bwap Bwap! Dead. I took this opportunity to cast out all rebel scum in the area (roleplaying is fun) saying this area is controlled by the Empire. From that, I got no response. I felt rather bad, but hey, he knew all and well that this was a PvP zone. Anyway. It took two shots with emergency blasters on to take out that X-Wing. It'd probably take about five without it. Point is, I got lucky I had emergencies on. If I didn't, he may have out maneuvered me (though he was sitting there, not moving very fast... big mistake...) and struck me down in crimson shards.
Some tips. Don't stop moving. Keep on your toes. Always get behind the ship. Never, I repeat, never engage head-on. If you want monotonous, hit buttons and hope your stats are higher PvP... go back to the ground. I hope we meet in space, because I've got something waiting for ya...
Sc0rPs
Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:09 am
#26
PikemanAreRarerThanJedi wrote:
Stranglet wrote:
what's the point of pvp if it all depends on who has the better range? i have 2.4k shields and 1k armor and in pvp they get cut through like nothing. so you've managed to make it like the "wonderful" ground pvp(first hit wins) except you die even faster! pvp should be like regular pve where tier 3 and 4 can actually withstand more than 2 hits. i don't understand why you would put such a pointless pvp system in, and worse yet make missions in the pvp area so people can grief. don't get me wrong i love how you have to go to kessel and you can get attacked by other players and such, but atleast give us a chance to fight back! it took me 3 tries to get into kesselbecause every time i went in to start my mission a player would come out of nowhere and shoot me once and i'd be dead. it literally takesless than 1/2 a second to kill someone, even if they have level 6, 7, 8 equipment.
Not really. it who has the most skill. I only level and play in the kessel and no for a fact I have been outgunned and the opponet has better shield armor etc. And my a-wing always pulls threw.
Have to disagree, this morning I got the jump on 3 rebel players. Destroyed two before they even realized what hit them and the second was in an A-wing and almost dead himself but I had to jump as his friend were returning from that dog fight. It is incredibley easy for me, alone, to thwart an entire Rebel group trying to complete their missions.
I think the damage is fine, fast & furious. I don't think ace pilot missions should be in a PvP zone. Soon, and do mark my words, these PvP zones will start to be camped where it will be nearly impossible for any missions to be completed. Wait until you got an entire squadrons of master pilots in the area... no target except for any player that comes into the area.