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Thread: Space PvP needs more help

Slarus
Thu Dec 23, 2004 12:12 am
#14

Actually, there are MMO's that requires PvPing for advancement. Planetside comes to mind.


Unless you are talking about MMORPGs, then your statement might be true.


This just isnt true, you cant rely on player pools for advancement, and when that game first came out how could you advance with few to no players (Not that Planetside has many players even now) PvP MMOs just arent as popular as all the others, look at Lineagy numbers or Planetside (strong PvP) compared to EQ and CoH (Specific or no PvP).


From a design point it simply doesnt work much to your dreams of it being perfect. It is too unbalanced to base, it is one reason no one likes the FRS system and 99% of the Jedi settle for Knight status unranked as the end game, PvP advancement is not practical and the challege varies too greatly to be consistant with PvE challenges.

Wacoede
Thu Dec 23, 2004 5:11 am
#15




Vicotnik wrote:




Slarus wrote:


Actually, there are MMO's that requires PvPing for advancement. Planetside comes to mind.


Unless you are talking about MMORPGs, then your statement might be true.


This just isnt true, you cant rely on player pools for advancement, and when that game first came out how could you advance with few to no players (Not that Planetside has many players even now) PvP MMOs just arent as popular as all the others, look at Lineagy numbers or Planetside (strong PvP) compared to EQ and CoH (Specific or no PvP).




Hmm? What's not true, exactly?


Planetside does require PvP for advancement, if that was what you werereplying to.PvP is the only player interaction in that game, there is no PvE at all. In fact, the entire point of the game is to get the players to fight each other.The fact that planetside is a fairly small game is not the issue.








Planetside is a PVP game, there is only one place that is PvE and that is the training hall, and you only get xp once in there (enough to get you to BR3 when you start) once you have done that you HAVE to PVP to advance.


PS still has thousands of players, heck even one outfit has over 1000 members (666th special ops "Devil Dogs" FYI). Its the largest outfit and has developers in the outfit, and that is why its still going strong player-dev interaction, if we could get the same interaction in SWG then we would be set.


Yes PVP in SWG does need sorting in space and on the ground but so do alot of other things, we also need a reason to PVP something to be gained and lost. I'll use PS as an example, in PS the 3 factions are at war and are fighting over a system of Planets(used to be one planet but there's thoughts of including more planets now), each of these planets has a series of base's that have to be 'capped' the benifits to this is are serval things rewards are randomly done every so often, recently PS had an event called 'Run forthe Guns' where the Empire with the most basecaps (or something simlar i didn't play during that event to tied up with SWG) gained access to the other factions empire specific weapons.


In essence what could be done for SWG and the GCW is this, PVP happens either on the ground or in space with CLEAR objectives now the faction that wins in a certain area could gain faction perks (but only in the areas they win)like bonus faction points, cheaper faction items, new faction items, an increased NPC pressence in the NPC cities/space zonesand surrounding areas,I cant think of anymore at themoment but I'm sure there's plenty out there.


The GCW and this game has so much potential and thats the main reason i'm still here most other MMO's are either of the D&D varition or have little to no backround to them (EVE online, Matrix Online (yes i watched the 3 films and all the animatrix so i know there trying to create abackround)) SWG has a hugh backround story and alot of olders games and comcs to pull from please Devs do something


wow i just read back over this that was long




Wacoede Peceukk
Allied Combat Team
Jedi / Alliance Ace Pilot
(gggggggggggggggW[[[z[[gzg]]z]]]Xggggggggggggggg)
Vicotnik
Thu Dec 23, 2004 1:21 pm
#16




Slarus wrote:


Actually, there are MMO's that requires PvPing for advancement. Planetside comes to mind.


Unless you are talking about MMORPGs, then your statement might be true.


This just isnt true, you cant rely on player pools for advancement, and when that game first came out how could you advance with few to no players (Not that Planetside has many players even now) PvP MMOs just arent as popular as all the others, look at Lineagy numbers or Planetside (strong PvP) compared to EQ and CoH (Specific or no PvP).



Hmm? What's not true, exactly?


Planetside does require PvP for advancement, if that was what you werereplying to.PvP is the only player interaction in that game, there is no PvE at all. In fact, the entire point of the game is to get the players to fight each other.The fact that planetside is a fairly small game is not the issue.





--------
Particle effects, BAD!!! Nice, realistic graphics, GOOD!!!
TotalJerk
Fri Dec 24, 2004 3:29 am
#17
Space PvP on my server died a little when all the PvPers left. They all left on my server when kessel went PvE. I'm pretty much done with SWG right now because the SOE seems to cater to the PvE players. If they still have fun flying around shooting a bot, then more power to them.



SWG is not the game for a PvPer. Its mechanics are seriously flawed, its focus is not on PVP combat, and this will ultimately lead to PVP oriented people discarding this game when the content runs out.


I feel bad for players that enjoy PvP and still play SWG. I did the only thing that I could think of to protest the current game. I cancelled my accounts, and wrote an email to the Sony CSR's describing exactly why I quit. This will probably go right into the trash can on someones computer, but I think it's important that you let them know how you feel. So if you want more PvP, then let the devs know.
Odajja
Fri Dec 24, 2004 3:55 am
#18




TotalJerk wrote:

Space PvP on my server died a little when all the PvPers left. They all left on my server when kessel went PvE. I'm pretty much done with SWG right now because the SOE seems to cater to the PvE players. If they still have fun flying around shooting a bot, then more power to them.



SWG is not the game for a PvPer. Its mechanics are seriously flawed, its focus is not on PVP combat, and this will ultimately lead to PVP oriented people discarding this game when the content runs out.


I feel bad for players that enjoy PvP and still play SWG. I did the only thing that I could think of to protest the current game. I cancelled my accounts, and wrote an email to the Sony CSR's describing exactly why I quit. This will probably go right into the trash can on someones computer, but I think it's important that you let them know how you feel. So if you want more PvP, then let the devs know.






It was taken out due to the 4 day wonders that Wanted to Spawn RA-PE those trying to master. Dont be a Idiot and blame PVE for PVP mental insecurities. Now Was SOE to blame for not thinking that Kids would Grief Yes they dropped the ball on that. And why would One area make you quit? When you have all the systems? I go Overt on one of the Biggest servers. And have Yet to get Hit By one other Overt player. Yet i land and theres Overt all over the starport waiting to Gank the slow load players that are overt.


So Have to Disagree with you. On the whole PVE thing. But nice try.




____________________________________________________________________

PBCFR Ranger to the end No matter how Un Iconic or Strawarsy they say it is! Bria
YOU SAY YOU ARE L33T & UBER. LET ME TAKE YOU TO A REAL FIRE FIGHT! THEN GIVE YOU NEW UNDIES>


Odajja not used.
LRRCP
Fri Dec 24, 2004 7:55 am
#19

This is your total conjecture, not one MMO requires purely PvPing for advancement, ALL MMOs are PvE by basic, that is what an NPC is a PvE element. You OPINION on difficulty is just that opinion, I find no challenge in PvP this is just the lame excuse to force more PvP into a game then is needed. PvP is an extension to a base game only no MMO is reliant on PvP.

All on line Combat flight simulators do and they are role play as well.

Most of them have Zero PVE except may be a few ground guns and even most of them are players.

Remember Massive Mulitiplayer Online.... Planet side is one of this game type and it as well as Zero NPC's in it.


Well I already felt that, PvP or not wont change that for a vast majority, and I have no more faith in SOE with this product they dont know how to handle Star Wars and give in to powergamers and PvP elitist and it will ruin not save the game.

There are a large number of people who want to PvP in the game, but are unable to compete with the current combat engine, many right now are awaiting the Combat revampto decideif they stay in SWG or leave for games such as WoW or EQ2.

if they screw it up or wait to long to release it then it will be the death knell for this game...

If they get it right you will see huge numbers return.


Would be nice, but SOE doesnt know how to run SWG so they will screw it up every chance they can, they will give in to the vocal minority have more pointless forced PvP and it will become an elitist game, most will leave and SOE will shut it down, remember this it will happen.

If they do not add more content for the non role players, and more goals then huge numbers will trickle off as is happening now. Most want random events in game something most role players do not like in thier scripted events (even though random events is a huge part of role play systems).

Large numbers of players want to PVP in a system where most battles win or lose are close not one sided.

LRRCP
Fri Dec 24, 2004 8:28 am
#20

This just isnt true, you cant rely on player pools for advancement, and when that game first came out how could you advance with few to no players (Not that Planetside has many players even now) PvP MMOs just arent as popular as all the others, look at Lineagy numbers or Planetside (strong PvP) compared to EQ and CoH (Specific or no PvP).


Guy you have no clue, one of the longest running MMO games to date, Air Warrior started off on Genie went though 4 major revamps, One of which was from DOS to Windows.


It ran for over Twenty-five years......


The only reason its not around anymore is because a competitor bought them out (war birds) and shut it down.


Almost everyone from Air Warrior went to Aces High and its doing great, the population shift was just what that game needed and its expanded by leaps and bounds and it quite honestly what Planet Side should mirror as the only thing it is missing is the troop combat.


I doubt SWG even comes close to that kind of player base ever.


TotalJerk
Sat Dec 25, 2004 2:45 am
#21
Just to clarify, no one thing made me quit. Its a combination of things. This game has numerous problems. The big ones for me are lack of satisfying PVP, lack of combat balance, too many jedi, no GCW, no content.


Spinnthrift
Sat Dec 25, 2004 7:40 am
#22




Blackjack_Nova wrote:





Since the removal of damage penalties for space based PvP was implemented I have not noticed any significant increase in pilot's PvPing or wanting to PvP. Deep Space offers a few rewards. Access to level 10 loot, a PvP zone and a Star Destroyer to defend or take down. These offerings are very enjoyable, but rather limiting in the way of game play. We need diversity along with a compelling reason to PvP.

- Kill counts - Jedi have them, Ace's need them too! Name of defeated pilot and how many times defeated...
- Loot rights - We need some kind of trophy. A part that we can use or a trophy that we can show off.
- Space needs to be part of the GCW. - The super top secret never spoke about or revealed plan for the GCW needs to take space PvP into account. Ground and space do not feel intertwined and need to be.
- Squad based battles - We need PvP battles designed for squadron VS squadron .Capture the flag, king of the hill, last man standing. Etc... We need in space, what Battlefields where designed to do for the ground, but they have to work!

If nothing else,a kill count would really help! Having someone see that you are an Ace is one thing, having them see that you area deadly PvPing Ace is entirely diffrent.

PvP can be very exciting, but the reward for defeating your opponent is too short lived. The thrill of victory is the only reward.
We deserve and need better reasons and rewards .


Message Edited by Blackjack_Nova on 12-14-2004 10:15 AM



Yeah - PvP based content would be good. Things that *should* have been implemented X-Wing vs TIE style from the off should have been made from the start.


My initial thoughts would be something like a joinable duty roster, that you and anyone else can sign up to... while in space - randomly generated instanced zones would produce a mission and a number of players would get the option to take the mission. Sometimes the fights would be even, sometimes they'd be not but they'd have goals/objectives etc to accomplish.


It would also add in content for the various different style ships...


Say - a bunch of pilots who are Rebel are signed up for the missions, a Mon Cal capship would hyper in to their location, or they'd get a comm message on the ground saying "blah - urgent mission requires pilots". The same would apply for the Imperials. Maybe Escort Carrier for Rebs and a Frigate for Imps... they'd then get access to whatever ships they own, be in a briefing room like in the other games/films etc... have a chance to chat tactics and were thrown into the new system.


The mission would have set objectives... such as capture the spies on a frigate or defend frigate from imperial assault. Each side would then go do their thing and be blown up or come out victorious.


Each player would then get markings on his/her ship that were visible for number of kills. Yeah - you'd have to get *real* close to see it, but /examine would allow for that...


Each sector needs dynamic control base that switches as one side or other controls or holds the systems. It could be arranged to not limit the natural spawns of an area but alter certain sectors and the spawns there, plus altering the alignments of certain space stations (improving repair and other functions at each depending on control). I digress though - that's looking far too far in the future. Simply though - multiplayer required PvP missions with actual goals are needed, random loot I can live without... blowing up stuff in Deep Space for lootage for me is fine enough, a cool kill count would be neat, even better if it reset each time you died without ejecting - so people would have a reason to PvP once you got killed to bring your kill count up once more.



Gabriel' Nightstalker
Jedi Padawan - Guru - Bearer of Oakleys
Hunted Hunter


Slarus
Sat Dec 25, 2004 10:57 am
#23
All on line Combat flight simulators do and they are role play as well.

Most of them have Zero PVE except may be a few ground guns and even most of them are players.

Remember Massive Mulitiplayer Online.... Planet side is one of this game type and it as well as Zero NPC's in it.


Ok that is not an MMORPG, it is nothing, nothing like SWG, EQ, EQ2, CoH, etc. They are combat simulators, Planetside sounds like a combat simulator if it has no PvE, but ALL MMORPGs have PvE and PvP is an element to add to the fun of it.
Slarus
Sat Dec 25, 2004 10:59 am
#24

Guy you have no clue, one of the longest running MMO games to date, Air Warrior started off on Genie went though 4 major revamps, One of which was from DOS to Windows.


It ran for over Twenty-five years......


So you claim it ran in 1984, must have been a military/college game, there was no internet for the public. Plus I played it, and it started in 1992 not 84.


The only reason its not around anymore is because a competitor bought them out (war birds) and shut it down.


Almost everyone from Air Warrior went to Aces High and its doing great, the population shift was just what that game needed and its expanded by leaps and bounds and it quite honestly what Planet Side should mirror as the only thing it is missing is the troop combat.


I doubt SWG even comes close to that kind of player base ever.



Last it isnt a MMORPG or even a true MMO it was a flight sim game with Multiplayer capability. I guess X-Box live is MMOs to you.


Slarus
Sat Dec 25, 2004 11:02 am
#25


Hmm? What's not true, exactly?


Planetside does require PvP for advancement, if that was what you werereplying to.PvP is the only player interaction in that game, there is no PvE at all. In fact, the entire point of the game is to get the players to fight each other.The fact that planetside is a fairly small game is not the issue.



Looking at PS it is a combat simulator game and not much else, all you do is fight. The only reason you can call it an MMO is that it is multiplayer over a network, but it is no where close to SWG or any other MMO that the term actually comes from. MMO is short for MMORPG or Massive Multiplayer Online Rolplaying Game, not a flight sim.


MMOs are roleplaying online games, desendant from MuDs, where you have PvE and sometimes PvP. Ultima Online was the first to get the term MMO assigned to it, I maybe wrong but I think it was the first true MMO (MMORPG for the nitpick crowd) I know you all are desperate to make SWG seem like a PvP heaven but MMOs are not like that, look at Planetside and Lineagy (Though PS is harldy a real MMO) they have a combined market share of about 3%, EQ is at 34%, CoH is at 27%, so pure PvP games just dont have the numbers, period end of story compare the numbers they are online.

Message Edited by Slarus on 12-25-2004 10:11 AM

Golrok
Sat Dec 25, 2004 12:21 pm
#26

Blackjack_Nova wrote:
Vampri - The trophy would be a part from the ship that you destoryed or something like that. You do know that Jedi MUST PvP to at the higher ranks right? Infact the whole Jedi system is based on PvP at the higher end.

People need to have options, and giving people that PvP a reason to PvP does not effect someone who is a strick PvE player. Why would you want to take away from someone else's playstyle's rewards because you can not get the reward with your playstyle? That is a very limiting design and does not give people many options other then to find a game that does reward them for there playstyle.




We know this but the trend lately hasn't been promising for those who agree with you, including me. If there's anything that can only be gained by PVP the PVE crowds starts to howl and it gets changed for them. I might not like it, you may not like it, but thats just the way it is or has been lately.,.

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