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Thread: Make MP ships useful in combat
xtxShifter
Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:42 pm
#14
Turret aiming is not, i repeat NOT, a problem if they pilot knows how to fly properly...
homelessguy
Tue Mar 15, 2005 1:13 am
#15
i was abit to harsh on my earlyer post about the co-pilot it is pritty fun just to wander around the ship and double back as an engineer when needed to. main best thing about it is someone else can do the driveing.
XanKrieger
Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:07 am
#16
/agree , i love the idea of 3 shield slots 
my yt-1300's shields are 2.8k to front and back with a recharge of 13 but i still get scrapped by pathetic tier 4 even when i'm at attack speed dodgingwith gunners firing away
my yt-1300's shields are 2.8k to front and back with a recharge of 13 but i still get scrapped by pathetic tier 4 even when i'm at attack speed dodgingwith gunners firing away
Zeon_Zaku
Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:19 pm
#17
Merendel wrote:
the MP ships should be much more powerful than fighters. they are many times the size of a fighter craft and therefor have much more room for either larger or multipuls of the equipment.
Well, not to be rude or anything, but in JtL, MP ships are abot the same size as a starfighter. Park the YT-1300 near an X-Wing and they're both about the same size.
The Devs really screwed up on the size of MP ships. They're way too small... or maybe starfighters are too big. But either way, the size is way off. Not at all big enough for people to walk around inside.
I think it sucks. It doesn't give the feeling you're flying in a big ship.
I wish the Devs would go back and simply stretch the MP shiptextures out, and make them bigger.
The Devs really screwed up on the size of MP ships. They're way too small... or maybe starfighters are too big. But either way, the size is way off. Not at all big enough for people to walk around inside.
I think it sucks. It doesn't give the feeling you're flying in a big ship.
I wish the Devs would go back and simply stretch the MP shiptextures out, and make them bigger.
Imaridril
Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:47 pm
#18
Rather than put in multiple shield and armor slots, they should just give the MP ships a built-in damage reduction mod. They could start with a 50% reduction mod, and see how things work from there. That being said, there is one area that I think they should double up the slots, and that is for weapons. Each turret should be able to mount two weapons. Place the second weapon for each turret a little below the first weapon, so that when fired they cover a little bit bigger area in the sky. This would give MP ships the heavier firepower they deserve, and it would also make it a little easier for gunners to get a hit.
hase2
Tue Mar 15, 2005 1:14 pm
#19
erm - i agree that MPSs could be beefed up a bit.
but - what do you need 2 capacitors for?
with 2 non REed L10 guns i never ever run out of energy. with both turrets firing my cap still recharges.
same for engines? every halfway decent engine provides 90+ trust with good PYR rates. overdriven i can outrun A-Wings easily. what else do you want? cross the sector before reaching full speed?
these ships are maneuverable enough to tail most tier5 fighters. you just have to work with throttle and boosters.
what i really like to see is a retro rocket to break faster. same as a booster helps accelerating.
Narut0
Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:38 pm
#20
so main problems are------
Hitpoints -
Turret aiming -
Co-pilot -
Cockpit (((VISABLITY))) -
first time i got in to PVP with my VT-1300 we got lucky and one of my Gunners shot down a X-wing (also a friend of mine)
only to be totaled by a space bomb mkII seconds later by his wingmen in a KSE.
I have tryed on many occations to get a crew together and go pick a fight with someone but it is a little usless in a one shot kill situation.
space combat needs an overhall letalone ground combat L
Hitpoints -
Turret aiming -
Co-pilot -
Cockpit (((VISABLITY))) -
first time i got in to PVP with my VT-1300 we got lucky and one of my Gunners shot down a X-wing (also a friend of mine)
only to be totaled by a space bomb mkII seconds later by his wingmen in a KSE.
I have tryed on many occations to get a crew together and go pick a fight with someone but it is a little usless in a one shot kill situation.
space combat needs an overhall letalone ground combat L
NasherUK
Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:48 pm
#21
first time i got in to PVP with my VT-1300 we got lucky and one of my Gunners shot down a X-wing (also a friend of mine)
only to be totaled by a space bomb mkII seconds later by his wingmen in a KSE.
Lol, thats another thing. Spacebombs are only supposed to be able to hit BIG ships, since they arnt supposed to be able to track after their launched :/
I remamber in XWA, hitting anything smaller than a stationary corvette with a spacebomb was a real challenge (they could also be shot down by concussion missiles and lasers), The only missile that was fast enough to hit a fighter was a concussion. Protons were used against capships and large transports also.
At the moment, you can kill any player in any ship with a single space bomb.
Message Edited by NasherUK on 03-15-2005 01:51 PM
CyberData4
Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:05 pm
#22
There needs to be content specifically designed for multipassenger ships. At this point, I don't even have a reason to ask 5 other players to come into space with me. There are no points of control in space PvP, no real missions that CAN'T be done without them.
As they are currently implemented, multiships are a nice luxury...that's it. It really has no use outside of the free storage.
-I want to live in my multipassenger ship. I want to be able to hire NPC's to either pilot where I tell them to, or fire my weapons.
-There should be missions that need them. Imagine being given a mission to gather a crew and to disable and board an enemy ship. You approch the convoy, destroy any patrol ships, disable the main vessel. Then "dock" with the ship and you and your crew can now walk around in the enemy ship with all your ground combat skills...
-We should be able to lock the turrets foward incase we don't have people to man the turrets. (you're telling me that my ship can survive the vacuum of space, travel to the edge of the galaxy....but can't lock it's two turrets foward? It's not a boat.....)
Zeon_Zaku
Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:17 pm
#23
NasherUK wrote:
Zeon_Zaku wrote:
Merendel wrote:
the MP ships should be much more powerful than fighters. they are many times the size of a fighter craft and therefor have much more room for either larger or multipuls of the equipment.
Well, not to be rude or anything, but in JtL, MP ships are abot the same size as a starfighter. Park the YT-1300 near an X-Wing and they're both about the same size.
The Devs really screwed up on the size of MP ships. They're way too small... or maybe starfighters are too big. But either way, the size is way off. Not at all big enough for people to walk around inside.
I think it sucks. It doesn't give the feeling you're flying in a big ship.
Hmm I think some fighters are to big, if you look at the size of a B-wing next to an X-wing, the B-wing is smaller but it supposed to be quite a bit bigger. Tie fighters are fricking huge. The neutral ships are even worse, most of their fighters are as big as a nova courier which not good because they get hit a lot more often.
The MP ships are to scale, they have to be so you can walk around inside them so they are sized around the player character.
Message Edited by NasherUK on 03-15-2005 12:02 PM
Hmmm... I'm not really sure if they are to scale. When you're in third-person flying around in an MP ship, the interior isn't inside the ship. It's just the ship, like if you were flying a starfighter. But once you leave the station, the interior loads as something of an instanced room. So the outside of the ship isn't necessarily scaled to suit the character's size.
But if they are to scale, then starfighters are way too big. I flew past a TIE Bomber in my Nova Cruiser last night, and the Bomber was almost as big as my ship. 
TheDarkmoons
Tue Mar 15, 2005 4:03 pm
#24
A popular stance taken by most correspondents is "The simpler something is - the more likely the Development team will put it in the game."
So lets keep it simple!
Whats the most simple form of balancing? Damage reduction - such as the way damage is reduced in PvP.
Say we categorise ships into classes:
Starfighters
Multiplayer Ships
Captital Ships/Space stations (Deep space ones).
These are the three "tiers" of ships, if you will.
The simple idea is to make reductions and advantages when firing on different classes of starship.
Starfighter VS Starfighter = 0% Reduction in shot power
Starfighter VS Multiplayer Ship = 50% reduction in shot power (guessed - this would need to be extensivly tested on TC)
Starfighter VS Capital Ship = 90% Reduction in shot power
Multiplayer VS Starfighter = 50% advantage in shot power
Multiplayer VS Multiplayer = 0% reduction in shot power
Multiplayer VS Capital Ship = 40% Reduction in shot power
Capital Ship VS Starfighter = 90% Advantage in shot power
Capital Ship VS Multiplayer = 40% advantage in shot power
Capital Ship VS Capital Ship = 0% Reduction (currently wouldn't happen, but heres hoping!) in shot power
This seems to me (although I have no idea how any of the Development work is done in SWG) to be one of the simplest solutions. Simply putting in a few formulae on combat. It dosen't require any extra equipment, I don't think it would require re-deeding of ships or new chassis; it seems pretty foolproof.
The next simplest thing would be to add extra slots for equipment as has been said before in this thread; That really explains itself.
So lets keep it simple!
Whats the most simple form of balancing? Damage reduction - such as the way damage is reduced in PvP.
Say we categorise ships into classes:
Starfighters
Multiplayer Ships
Captital Ships/Space stations (Deep space ones).
These are the three "tiers" of ships, if you will.
The simple idea is to make reductions and advantages when firing on different classes of starship.
Starfighter VS Starfighter = 0% Reduction in shot power
Starfighter VS Multiplayer Ship = 50% reduction in shot power (guessed - this would need to be extensivly tested on TC)
Starfighter VS Capital Ship = 90% Reduction in shot power
Multiplayer VS Starfighter = 50% advantage in shot power
Multiplayer VS Multiplayer = 0% reduction in shot power
Multiplayer VS Capital Ship = 40% Reduction in shot power
Capital Ship VS Starfighter = 90% Advantage in shot power
Capital Ship VS Multiplayer = 40% advantage in shot power
Capital Ship VS Capital Ship = 0% Reduction (currently wouldn't happen, but heres hoping!) in shot power
This seems to me (although I have no idea how any of the Development work is done in SWG) to be one of the simplest solutions. Simply putting in a few formulae on combat. It dosen't require any extra equipment, I don't think it would require re-deeding of ships or new chassis; it seems pretty foolproof.
The next simplest thing would be to add extra slots for equipment as has been said before in this thread; That really explains itself.
NasherUK
Wed Mar 16, 2005 1:01 am
#25
Zeon_Zaku wrote:
Merendel wrote:
the MP ships should be much more powerful than fighters. they are many times the size of a fighter craft and therefor have much more room for either larger or multipuls of the equipment.
Well, not to be rude or anything, but in JtL, MP ships are abot the same size as a starfighter. Park the YT-1300 near an X-Wing and they're both about the same size.
The Devs really screwed up on the size of MP ships. They're way too small... or maybe starfighters are too big. But either way, the size is way off. Not at all big enough for people to walk around inside.
I think it sucks. It doesn't give the feeling you're flying in a big ship.
Hmm I think some fighters are to big, if you look at the size of a B-wing next to an X-wing, the B-wing is smaller but it supposed to be quite a bit bigger. Tie fighters are fricking huge. The neutral ships are even worse, most of their fighters are as big as a nova courier which not good because they get hit a lot more often.
The MP ships are to scale, they have to be so you can walk around inside them so they are sized around the player character.
Message Edited by NasherUK on 03-15-2005 12:02 PM
Skuzz
Wed Mar 16, 2005 7:32 am
#26
Although insanely cool and fun to play with MP ships are 'woefully' gimped as is. Yes you "can" make them marginally useful but you do so with the knowledge that you would be far better off in seperate ships, and thats just not right. At the very least MP ships should be as effective as 3 decked out high level player ships. Why? because there are 3 combat positions in them and it doesnt make sense otherwise to give up the combat effectiveness gained by seperate ships otherwise. So how can this be achieved? with a few simple tweaks...
- Have multipliers built into the MP ship chasis for component slots. These would magnify the effectivness (and mass) of each component dropped into an MP ship. A x3 multiplier makes the most sense but a x2 would be tolerable. this way a new category of components doesnt have to be generated, just a tweak with the code andpresto! 
- Increase range of weapons by at least 50% on MP ships. Because a MP ship can usually only bring a single gun to bear on a target that has 3-4 weapons shooting back at them an increased range would be a nice equalizer.
- allow players to dock to trade with MP ships or to transfer players from one ship to another. When a pilot leaves his ship to board an MP vessel his ship would auto-pilot out of the system.
- allow missiles and counter measures to be reloaded while in flight by crew members. Why this isnt an option now boggles me.
- allow the co-pilot to target enemies, and components on those enemies, and when this is done the gunners on their ship that fire at the targeted ship would automatically be shooting at that target/component, perhaps with a bonus.
and the big one for last...
- FIX THE BLASTED PLASMA LEAK BUG!!!
But these are just my 2 cents, take em or leave em.