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Thread: The Petition For an Alternative to Forced PvP for Mastery
Vicotnik wrote:
Spiike_Spiegel wrote:
PVP is pointless? well when u look at it that way since there is no "end" to the game seeing as how its an MMO it could be considered pointless right? so why PVP? why play the game at all? for fun...
Edit: which reminds me... if u need to PVP to master doesn't that give a point to PVPing?
Message Edited by Spiike_Spiegel on 10-21-2004 04:18 PM
Pointless in the sence that there is not much reward vs risk. There isn't even anything to fight about.
No,the fact that you have to subject yourself to PVPgives no point toit at all. For insance, the first of the two rebel master missions requires you to kill 30(!) TIE fighters in Kessel. However, these TIEs hardly ever spawn, and when they do they often fly togheter with Gunboats who almost can one-shot ships. Now, if you get killed or leave the Kessel system, your mission is failed. If you get attacked by an imperial in a TIE and manage to kill him/her, that is not even added to your TIE kills.
Since the actual missions does not require you to PVP, but requires you to be open to PVP, it's griefing central. I can only see people mastering pilot professions on the live servers using three methods:
1) Do it before everyone else.
2) Do it at odd hours, when there's not as many people around
3) Have a good sized guild bodyguard you.
you make a good point there ill give you that... and i think that PCs should count
however think about this, how easy is the ground game? shouldn't it be hard to master the profession? so that makes it extremely hard to master correct? makeing it more rewarding when u do...
oh and you dont HAVE to PVP, here are your options: 1) give up and dont get master 2) master it and feel rewarded because most people chose the first option 3) go privateer and get master (this is just speculation cus i haven't played beta but i wouldn't think that they would be subject to PVP)
Edit: ok scratch the 3rd option, i think that privateers shouldn't have to PVP but i stick with the fact that this makes it harder makeing masters rarer which is good!
Message Edited by Spiike_Spiegel on 10-21-2004 05:09 PM
Edit: actually now that i think about it forced PVP for all aces is good, think about it this way for Privateers, yes they are neutral BUT they are mercenaries....
Message Edited by Spiike_Spiegel on 10-21-2004 05:12 PM
Terrantal wrote:
/sign
No point in arguing about it... PvP should always be voluntary, not forced upon.
It's forced in the sense that you can't access some content until you have mastered the professions.
ExileStrife wrote:
Tell me where it forces you to pvp and I'll sign it. Otherwise, it's your choice if you want to become an ace pilot. I think they would have to rework the starwars universe if aces suddenly had not combat skills and flew around in cargo ships 'expertly' carrying cargo.
Spiike_Spiegel wrote:
you make a good point there ill give you that... and i think that PCs should count
however think about this, how easy is the ground game? shouldn't it be hard to master the profession? so that makes it extremely hard to master correct? makeing it more rewarding when u do...
oh and you dont HAVE to PVP, here are your options: 1) give up and dont get master 2) master it and feel rewarded because most people chose the first option
3) go privateer and get master (this is just speculation cus i haven't played beta but i wouldn't think that they would be subject to PVP)
Edit: ok scratch the 3rd option, i think that privateers shouldn't have to PVP but i stick with the fact that this makes it harder makeing masters rarer which is good!
Message Edited by Spiike_Spiegel on 10-21-2004 05:09 PM
It already is insanely hard. The second master mission requires you to take out a Corvette with an escort of two or three gunboats and a heckload of fighters. On top of this, the Corvette can be hard to find and you've only got about an hour to destroy it. Add in the PVP factor, which will be 200 times as high on the real servers, and you've got yourself a horrible mission.
For instance: I spent over 24 HOURS in total (not in a row)just looking for the Corvette at first. I hear they have upped the spawn rate some though, it used to spawn every four hours or so. The mission would be a lot more fun if it took place in another system, can't see how any PVP haters can ever enjoy it. And for the record: I actually ENJOY PVP, but this is just plain dumb. I don't enjoy griefing people, don't see how I can ever PVP in Kessel now.
I believe Privateers actually have it worse than imperials and rebels when it comes to this. In the PVP sectors, I believe they are attackable by both rebels and imperials, and probably even other privateers too. (Don't quote me on this though)
Vicotnik wrote:
It's forced in the sense that you can't access some content until you have mastered the professions.
ExileStrife wrote:
Tell me where it forces you to pvp and I'll sign it. Otherwise, it's your choice if you want to become an ace pilot. I think they would have to rework the starwars universe if aces suddenly had not combat skills and flew around in cargo ships 'expertly' carrying cargo.
/disagree
No one is forcing anyone else to go Ace, if you want to access that content which is only available to Ace pilots then you make that choice to pursue Ace and potentiallybe subject to PvP, not one thing about that is forced. It's no different than the Jedi complaining because they don't want to be hunted by BH's and "forced" to PvP, they made a concious choice to go that profession knowing the consequences of it. Same with going Overt in the grond game, that is a choice up to each playerand a choice that will result in PvP. Once again not one thing forced about it.
Message Edited by Kelko on 10-21-2004 08:22 PM
Kelko wrote:
Vicotnik wrote:
It's forced in the sense that you can't access some content until you have mastered the professions.
ExileStrife wrote:
Tell me where it forces you to pvp and I'll sign it. Otherwise, it's your choice if you want to become an ace pilot. I think they would have to rework the starwars universe if aces suddenly had not combat skills and flew around in cargo ships 'expertly' carrying cargo.
/disagree
No one is forcing anyone else to go Ace, if you want to access that content which is only available to Ace pilots then you make that choice to pursue Ace and potentiallybe subject to PvP, not one thing about that is forced. It's no different than the Jedi complaining because they don't want to be hunted by BH's and "forced" to PvP, they made a concious choice to go that profession knowing the consequences of it. Same with going Overt in the grond game, that is a choice up to each playerand a choice that will result in PvP. Once again not one thing forced about it.
Message Edited by Kelko on 10-21-2004 08:22 PM
/agree
forced PVP would be being attackable as soon as u log on
Vicotnik wrote:
It's forced in the sense that you can't access some content until you have mastered the professions.
ExileStrife wrote:
Tell me where it forces you to pvp and I'll sign it. Otherwise, it's your choice if you want to become an ace pilot. I think they would have to rework the starwars universe if aces suddenly had not combat skills and flew around in cargo ships 'expertly' carrying cargo.
rrdwaveslr wrote:
Vicotnik wrote:
It's forced in the sense that you can't access some content until you have mastered the professions.
ExileStrife wrote:
Tell me where it forces you to pvp and I'll sign it. Otherwise, it's your choice if you want to become an ace pilot. I think they would have to rework the starwars universe if aces suddenly had not combat skills and flew around in cargo ships 'expertly' carrying cargo.
If im not mistaken, and i may be, the only content that is not available to none Ace's would be Deep Space, which requires 30 prestige points, and is an entirly a PvP zone, so if u don't want to pvp why do you want to have this content so much anyway?
/agree
And the Devs have said that these are areas that were specifically put in JTL for open PvP where anyone can attack anyone else. If you don't want to be openly attacked then you can stay out of these areas.
Message Edited by Kelko on 10-21-2004 08:39 PM
Kelko wrote:
rrdwaveslr wrote:
Vicotnik wrote:
It's forced in the sense that you can't access some content until you have mastered the professions.
ExileStrife wrote:
Tell me where it forces you to pvp and I'll sign it. Otherwise, it's your choice if you want to become an ace pilot. I think they would have to rework the starwars universe if aces suddenly had not combat skills and flew around in cargo ships 'expertly' carrying cargo.
If im not mistaken, and i may be, the only content that is not available to none Ace's would be Deep Space, which requires 30 prestige points, and is an entirly a PvP zone, so if u don't want to pvp why do you want to have this content so much anyway?
/agree
And the Devs have said that these are areas that were specifically put in JTL for open PvP where anyone can attack anyone else. If you don't want to be openly attacked then you can stay out of these areas.
Message Edited by Kelko on 10-21-2004 08:39 PM
no...
Master also grants you acsess to MP ships. Lets face it, the sorosub is not all that great as a MP ship.
Zaket wrote:
I /signed in beta and I'll do it here.
All the arguments against I've seen here are sophistry. Kessel will be ganking central.
Yup, and only if you go into Kessel. Once again it comes down to choice, nothing forced about it.
An analogy.......
person1: I want to be a soldier but I don't want to have to fight in a war.
person2: Then don't be a soldier.
person1: But I want to be, if I become a soldier and have to go to war then the militarywill beforcing me to fight against my will.
person2: Is the military forcing you to become a soldier?
person1: No, that's my choice.
person2: Then choose something else.
It's plan and simple, it is only forced if you have no choice and we all have a choice in this game, thus by definition and logic it is not forced.
rrdwaveslr wrote:
If im not mistaken, and i may be, the only content that is not available to none Ace's would be Deep Space, which requires 30 prestige points, and is an entirly a PvP zone, so if u don't want to pvp why do you want to have this content so much anyway?
Yes, but since prestige points are a plenty as a master pilot, I'm pretty sure more content that requires it will be added.
Overall the only existing content, deep space, actually requires PVP though, so that is true.