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Thread: Missions are too long and difficult. Most get frustrated and give up.

TomedNor
Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:26 am
#14



XStarbracer wrote:

...
Moreover, in star wars not everyone was a ace pilot but they could fly. You dont see some no name Red 8 soloing capital ships and fleets but he still got to be a pilot in a prominent squadron, yes he got killed as did alot of pilots on both sides but no one told them they couldnt fly just because they cant solo fleets and vettes.
...




Bingo! He could fly, but he wasn't an ACE. That's all the other poster is saying. The generic pilot from our above example isn't an ACE, or probobly even a 4444 pilot.



---------------------------------------
See you around, and happy trails,
- Tomed Nor
*walks off into the forest*
Corbantis ~ Master Ranger, Master Rifleman, CorSec Ace Pilot
captenjonny
Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:15 am
#15



The weak spot in all your elitist arguements is that SOE has NOT kept JTL separate. I admint. The reason I bought JTL for my toons was to get out of waiting for shuttles. For $20 (well $60 for three accounts) I don't have to mess with shuttles. I am a ground pounder and proud of it. Monday night I get asked to help a toon out on the Kashh hunting quests. No problem I figure and away we go. I get the banta trophy and then ....


I HAVE TO DELIVER SOME PELTS TO SOME STUPID FREIGHTER AND GET MY A$$ HANDED TO ME BY MULITPLE WAVES OF TIER 2 FIGHTERS!!!!!


I am one of those grils who can't/won't take to flying skills.


Now it turns out I HAVE to have twitch skills. So last night I send up my toon figuring I could get to tier 2 or three - I stopped after my third MIND NUMBINGLY BORING ESCORT MISSION.


Not counting the time I WASTED flying 7K - 9K meters back to the station! (maybe you twitchers can enlighten me on why I need to spend 5 - 8 minutes crawling to the station. At least on the ground we can stop by a shop, kill a mob or two... in space you just gotta sit there!)


You wanna be an ACE knock yourself out, but to make me get out of the MMORG (teaming in space - right!) to be able to complete a groud quest sucks.


What this has to do with the orginal thread is that I AGREE. Leveling in JTL is to way too long and immensely boring.



Message Edited by captenjonny on 06-07-2005 01:16 PM

Message Edited by captenjonny on 06-07-2005 01:17 PM



Captain Jonny
XStarbracer
Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:03 pm
#16

Theres a fundemental difference between pilots and jedi, firstly Everyone can be a jedi, it just takes a ton of grinding In pilot some people just CANT advance with the difficulty on some missions, namely teir 3 ones. The ground game though you can do something else and enjoy it, in space, a whole expansion dedicated to space, the only thing you can really do is try to advance through the professions to get cooler ships to hang around in, thats a giant difference, space isnt just for the elite, its for everyone whos pays 25$ and for most of the paying customers space is broken in most respects,


Moreover, in star wars not everyone was a ace pilot but they could fly. You dont see some no name Red 8 soloing capital ships and fleets but he still got to bea pilot in a prominent squadron, yes he got killed as did alot of pilots on both sides but no one told them they couldnt fly just because they cant solo fleets and vettes.


So, until you local l33t aces start paying for these peoples JtL and accounts, they have every reason as paying customers to demand SOE tone down the difficulty and make some fixes.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- I support NO DECAY.It should be run like EQ . No 20k price cap on the bazar and everyone can craft. Its has worked for 7 years on everquest and there is no decay plenty of money and no crazy prices.

Decay is only good for crafteres and bad for everyone else.
<>

psikobunny
Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:26 pm
#17

But don't you get it? The solution was already given in the original post. People who can't hack it in a tougher squad, drop it and go for an easier one. Most of the people I have seen do this, learn a lot from the failed attempt, sail through the easy squad, then take on the harder ones with a full head of steam.


Idolatry has it right, JtL has a different mindset required, and there are squads that are easier for just that reason. Everyon who buys JtL has a right to a good space experience sure, but that doesnt mean every squad should be made vanilla flavored and easy to swallow.


There's nothing so big it can't be knocked on it's tail, and everything is groovy. There is no mission in JtL that cannot be soloed, and honestly, excellent gear, l33t skills and an attitude are not required either. Like any system, you get back what you put into it, and the people who give up, are most of the time the people who didn't try very hard to begin with. There's a big difference between the guy who flys outand does the same thing 7 times failing every time, and the guy who fails, thinks aboutwhy, changes his gear, changes his tactics, and tries again. Once deserves the right to be Ace of a tougher squad, and the other, well yeah.





Gilack Mehoipou [Bloodfin]


Quintuple Master- Marksman/Squad Leader/Rifleman/Vortex Pilot/Politician


Made it before all hell broke loose.



captainme
Tue Jun 07, 2005 1:34 pm
#18






idolatry wrote:





XStarbracer wrote:


Thats just some gripes, the point is until you elitist people pay 24$ bucks for everyone to have JtL and 15$ a month EVERYONE deserves to be able to get ace pilot not be gated bythose insanemissions. Until then you elitiest people cant say crap about who deserves ace or not. Elite Aces arent the majority, so i wouldnt get to high on those horses, enough people complain JtL WILL be fixed.






This is exactly why I'm voicing *my* opinion now. I don't think JTL needs to be 'fixed'.


Not everyone can be a Jedi; it takes a lot of dedication and patience. A large portion of people don't have those skills. JTL is the same, it just requires a different skill set that some people just don't have.


Just because its hard and some people give up doesn't mean it should be changed. Should we nerf crafting professions because people give up half way through?






I have to agree here. If you're not cut out to be an ace, you're not going to wear the badge. Pretty simple. Like was said before, it takes skill to take on most of these missions. If you get every mission handed to you, with the exception of the vette, which is a challenge no matter what. Argue with me if you want, but we that don't have bomber strike have to plan our attacks very carefully. Those that fly with me know what I'm talking about, but I digress. JTL is twitch based, so it takes good reflexes and it used to take a good eye(i.e. no annoying red and blue squares). To be an ace is more than just a title, it's an attitude and a mindset. Granted, there are some things that need to be fixed, but they're minor and can be overcome. Trust me, I used to think that the Tier 4 exit mission for RSF was impossible and had repeated it about 10 times before I finally found someone who knew a strategy to it.


If you keep failing a mission, figure out what you're doing wrong. Look at how pilots in the military do it, they are breifed before they fly to know what they're going up against and debreifed when they come back to show where they went wrong or where they went right. I'm not relating the game to real life, but giving an example of how planning and analyzing your tactics can help you in the longrun. If you'd prefer and in-game example, I'll give you one. When I first was to go up against the vette, I didn't think it was possible to solo. I thought the people had to use exploits to do it or just had to have bomber strike 2. I figured I had to have an imperial ace to finish it, I was lucky to be in kessel when a bunch of people were taking out the vette so I got my title. After that, I tried finding ways to beat it solo. I tried many things and always ended up running with my tail between my legs. I did research, I watched what happened when one thing was attacked. I watched what the fightersdid, what the gunboats did, what the vette itself did. It took a little time, but I figured out a way to win. Now, soloing the kessel vette is almost too easy.


So, you wanna finish a mission and have attempted it many times, trying something new. Figure out why you failed, what made you go farther than the attempts before. It's not that JTL needs to be "nerfed", it's that you need to use more strategy than the ground game. Anyway, that's my rant for the day.



Nena Regi
The Corbantis Mistress of destruction

Commandos like it hot.

Attacca
Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:21 am
#19







I HAVE TO DELIVER SOME PELTS TO SOME STUPID FREIGHTER AND GET MY A$$ HANDED TO ME BY MULITPLE WAVES OF TIER 2 FIGHTERS!!!!!


I am one of those grils who can't/won't take to flying skills.


Now it turns out I HAVE to have twitch skills. So last night I send up my toon figuring I could get to tier 2 or three - I stopped after my third MIND NUMBINGLY BORING ESCORT MISSION.





Nope, wrong again. All you need is a friend to fly with you. Just like if you were on the ground and giving a combat quest while all your skillpoints are focused on crafting.


I'll state that again in different terms. Just like the way not everyone can do every quest on the ground solo, you most likely can't do everything in space solo. See, all similar aspects of the same game. There's no shame in taking a wingman with you.


I will agree that the first two Tiers feel really slow, because your ship won't move very fast. That's one thing I never liked (wish those early missions would have closer waypoints). But by the time you get up a few Tiers, you're going fast enough that 9k is actually a very short distance.


With a few guildmates who can fly, you can master any squadron in under a week, the slowest part being possibly the Tier 4 grinding. JTL is already simple enough, if you're willing to work at it instead of complaining here.







~ Captain Nesanya / Murphey ~
Rebel Alliance A-Wing Pilot
...has mastered the Pilot profession
Are you a pilot and not using Droid Commands?

TomedNor
Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:51 am
#20



Attacca wrote:

...

With a few guildmates who can fly, you can master any squadron in under a week, the slowest part being possibly the Tier 4 grinding.
...





Yeah, it takes a while, but it's easy. At tier 3 equipment, you can outfit a ship good enough to take out 4's and 5's easy (with practice, but one should get enough practice getting to tier 4...)



---------------------------------------
See you around, and happy trails,
- Tomed Nor
*walks off into the forest*
Corbantis ~ Master Ranger, Master Rifleman, CorSec Ace Pilot
ProwlVF1S
Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:19 pm
#21

Well...I think everybody here has had some very valid points. I have two accounts myself, one being a Imperial ace and the other a Neutral ace. After Grinding each I can say the Neutral one was WAY easier to master then the Imperial. And a large reason for that was simple Starship stats. Things like mass and forward firing weapons, and the overlooked speed, pitch,yaw and roll. After reviewing stats on all the ships, it's my oppinion that Imperial pilots really got the shaft on normal Imperialgrindfrom novice to masterships. (not talking about the quest ships here)


The Reason I make this claim is when I first startedpilot skills with JTL I was able to solo almost all the way up to master in a tier1 Dunelizard. Needing help only one or two missions. The Dunelizard with it's 85k mass, two forward firing weapons and impressive speed, p. y. r. rate made it very simple to master pilot. All i had to do is equip it right and it was a awesome fighter.


Then I tried to start my Imperial Pilot career on a alt. HUGE difference bettween the two. Wich i guees is to be expected, but not to this degree. None of the ships had anything near the same mass until tier 3 and then your choises were between a fast 50k ship and slower then snail turd 190k ship. I know what you're thinking "190k mass!!! that's huge!" Well it's not as helpful as it sounds kids. Unless you outfit it be a tank, you're a sitting duck. and forget chasing down A-Wings. Well....it will take you some time anyway.


Had to get some friends together for help and really play around with ship components to get the best preformance out of the faster ships lower mass. To be honest though. I think even though it was alot harder to master Imperial Pilot i believe that is how the DEV intended it to be for all faction pilots. Just didn't work out that way. And when i did this it was before RotW wich now has heavy versions of starter ships that you can fly at a very low pilot level. Not to mention the quests ships wich for alot of pilots, myself included are the best things out there.


So, when your having trouble (And we all do) get some friends to help you out. Or hang around starports looking for pilots that can and are willing to help you. Truth be told the only complaint I have and hope they change in the future is the Tie Advanced mass. For a Tier 4 ship it's mass is awefully low at 65k (I think) And i have herd rebels say it's the A-wing of the Empire it's suposed to be low and I respect what you're saying, but all Imperial ships are low. It would be nice to have one good fast fighter that had more then one forward firing weapon with over 80k mass like the other factions have. AndI believe the Advanced is the best choise for this. Even themaster ship Tie Oppressor is surprising slow.


Just my oppinion though and not everybody will aggree and that is their right.


HiroTanaka
Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:13 am
#22

The thing that gets me is the sheer number of Ace (Tier 5) pilots out there who never go into space. Nor can they ever be bothered to provide assistance to a fellow pilot who needs help on a mission. What else do they have to do that's so important? And why did they go through all the effort to become Aces if they had no interest in being a pilot?


Ahh but I know why! The current guildie trick these days is for the one Master Pilot to take his POB ship out, loaded down with Reverse Engineered Tech 10 Death Rays, and put two complete noobs in the gunnery seats. Then they just cruise out to some nice hunting ground and waltz the noobs right through their entire piloting grind in less than thrity minutes per tier. Then they go out, do one solo script mission, and train themselves to the max. Wash, rinse, repeat. The end result: "Aces" who've only flown maybe seven or eight actual missions in their entire lives, spending more time behind a gunnery seat crosshair than behind thejoystick. Now they are A) too bored to go on with flying, B) have no real flying ability, or C) both.


Very amusing indeed!

Goraf
Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:08 am
#23

I helped a guy do the first Storm Squadron tier-4 mission the other night. I was expecting it to take max 30-45 minutes like all the Freelance and Rebel missions I have helped on. We were at it for nearly 90 minutes. I couldn't believe it! If I wasn't there taking care of the tier-4 and 5 natural spawns in the path of the escort, he would have failed the mission for sure.

The mission was actually pretty good. Quite hard for a 3/3/3/3 pilot, but I think it should be challenging. But over an hour? Too long.

Are Imperial pilot recruits warned that the Imperial Storm and Black Epsilon squadrons are the hardest to master in the game? I have only done CorSec and Vortex so far. Vortex was my first and was a little challenging at the time, but I think it would be no problem now. CorSec, except for the mission with the 2 gunboats, was a piece of cake.

As for the $$$$$$$$$$ comment, pilots can make a lot more cash if they do duty missions instead of grinding out xp on natural spawns or, even worse, turret gunning for someone else. Your equipment at tier-3 can easily take you all the way to master. I was not a SW yet when I mastered the first time, I bought everything. Most of the crafted stuff I bought sucked too because SWs didn't really understand yet what made good equipment. Many still don't, but that's off topic...



Captain Alirc Ec-Ecit
Alliance Ace Pilot
XO 77th "Phoenix" Fighter/Bomber Wing
Valcyn

KinjiruSpleen
Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:02 am
#24

I must be missing something, I soloed all of my Tier4 Inquisition missions in under 20 minutes. I thought they were the easiest of all the tiers.

Tier4 II was just "Patrol the waypoints" in Dath space... with a YT1300 at the last wp. What do you guys in Storm have to DO??





Kinjiru Spleen
Double Echo Brigade - Bloodfin

Imperial Officer - ...Has Mastered the Imperial Pilot Profession
CINC - Vanguard Squadron - Double Echo Brigade (DxE)
Goraf
Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:20 am
#25

Did you get your tier-4 component rewards? I remember reading that you don't get them if you fly to fast through the patrols.

The Storm Squadron mission between 3/3/3/3 and 3/4/3/3 involves escorting various slow starships (was it 2 or 3?), killing waves of 3-5 tier-4 rebel fighters and the various natural spawns that happen in Endor space. The length of time, natural spawns, and tier-4 a-wings would give a new pilot the most trouble.



Captain Alirc Ec-Ecit
Alliance Ace Pilot
XO 77th "Phoenix" Fighter/Bomber Wing
Valcyn

Squeakyshoes
Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:08 pm
#26

if you dont have the skill and equipment to solo it then bring a friend or two, you will be surprised how easy it will be done





- I support myself. You can too !
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