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Thread: MOVED to Cities and Housing forum: Vision to resolve the item limit problem for houses and multip...
Cuality
Mon Nov 22, 2004 5:53 pm
#14
Glzmo wrote:
- There will still be the same maximum amount of totalitems acharacter can store in his/her houses and ships which shouldn't strain the database any more than it is now
Message Edited by Glzmo on 11-02-2004 04:57 AM
this shows that you don't know how a database works. Say you have 100 people that wanted to go across country and you have access to cars that hold 10 people each. the logical solution is to get 10 cars and put 10 people in each car. What you are suggesting is to put 100 people in one car simply because you will save gas and everyone can be together. the highest you can hold in a house or guild hall right now is 250 items. on average it takes my character almost a minute to load the items. imagine if i had to load 600 items. it would take almost 5 minutes to load. 5 minutes of running around, waiting for a vendor to load is something i don't think anyone wants to do.
factories can store 100 items with no problem, because the graphic system doesn't have to support them. factories are just standard databases with UI.
your idea is flawed. the only thing that would allow them to give people more items per lot is if they upgraded their databases. An easier solution is for them to carry through on the old character deletes and allow people an extra lot or two since they are just freeing up space.
rj00789
Mon Nov 22, 2004 6:10 pm
#15
Only problem with this Idea( I love in theory ) ,is that it would cause MAJOR lag while "creating" each of 750 items whenever you entered your house,ship,guild hall. Most of the time lag is caused by having too many objects in a given area for the serve to keep up, or yourCPU to keep up. Coronet Lags soooo bad because there are usually a couple hundred people there at any given time spamming,buying tickets,trading,whatever. When you exit the Starport front door, and TRY to walk out you lag while your CPU instantly trie to draw those 200 toons,plus buildings and such. If your CPU has to draw the 200 items cramed in the front room of your store,it would lag most peoples PC's 
. It would be so very awesome if I were wrong, and they could, that would solve alot of issues!
. It would be so very awesome if I were wrong, and they could, that would solve alot of issues! If they had a way to make certain items a permanent part of the house that could never be used again,once locked,they become a part of the house itself and no longer count as inventory. Like My paintings,rugs,tables,couches,etc.. Then you can never recover these items or deed house. That could save a few items and allow for decoration without the huge item count.
Especially usefull for makin those aquariums and such! I used 30 wall units to make one. If that could now be locked and counted as one!!!
Anyways, sorry ,my two creds 
Peyote, Flurry
spincrus
Mon Nov 22, 2004 6:32 pm
#16
The sistem you proposed, although very interesting and shines with all your effort and good will, would not work, simply due to game mechanics and so many problems it would bring with it. Think about it: how would the items placed in houses that have multiple admins be handled? Unless you "bind" an item to a character, or unless any item dropped off at a house automatically belongs to the owner of the house, this system would cause more pain.
Instead, just these would make our lives much easier:
1) Increase the limit on ships. 75 is not enough, 150 would be perfect.
2) Increase the limit on guild halls and large houses. 250 for a Tat guild hall is insanely low. 350-450 AT LEAST would allow us to decorate each room with what we want.
3) Decrease the lots guild halls take. 7 for a Tat, 9 for a regular? How insane is that? 5 for tat and 7 forregular would be perfect. If this is not possible, just increase the limits, so that we can use them for storage, too.
I have a small tat house and a tat guild hall next to each other, on the planet where I'm registered with the bank (Tatooine, outside Bestine). I ONLY play this character which I have on Eclipse, although I have created experimential artisan characters on numerous other servers before. However, I have dedicated my money and play time to a single character and want to be able to store more items in my guild hall. It's already a big, BIG sacrifice to dedicate 7 lots to something, dedicate time for a guild (which I currently don't have; disbanded) and have no place to put my stuff in.
Besides, when I get the decimator, I will need to either destroy my yatch or my small house (huh, NO WAY) in order to use it. I don't want that to happen; I NEED SPACE.
And this is coming from a person who likes to liquidate his assets as fast as possible and only has a sum of probably 450 items, both in houses, in bank and on person...
GadonThek
Mon Nov 22, 2004 7:05 pm
#17
The simplest solution is to make everything 100 items/lot and make lots a sane progression: Small House(all) 2 lots, 200 items storage. Medium house(all) 4 lots, 400 item storage. Large house(all) 6 lots, 600 item storage. PA Halls(all) 6 lots, 600 item storage. That way you dont have people taking 4 or 5 small houses because its gives more storage, meaning less houses to load/keep track of server-side, and less locations for the database to reference all the time. It would also mean we could decorate the larger sodding buildings.
DMSL
Mon Nov 22, 2004 7:31 pm
#18
GadonThek wrote:
The simplest solution is to make everything 100 items/lot and make lots a sane progression: Small House(all) 2 lots, 200 items storage. Medium house(all) 4 lots, 400 item storage. Large house(all) 6 lots, 600 item storage. PA Halls(all) 6 lots, 600 item storage. That way you dont have people taking 4 or 5 small houses because its gives more storage, meaning less houses to load/keep track of server-side, and less locations for the database to reference all the time. It would also mean we could decorate the larger sodding buildings.
Medium house 4 lots? No way man, crafters are already getting screwed with the lots, they need to go down, not up.
I suggest making small houses 1, medium 2 and large houses 3 lots.
truewildman
Tue Nov 23, 2004 5:58 pm
#20
Some food for thought:
Aktrez: Great, something we love to hear. Next question is, again, coming from more than just one person, we don't have a name down, this is just Miscellaneous, the question is: "The yacht is increasingly becoming popular with veterans, but why was the item limit set at 75? With the vast amount of room in the wonderful layout of the ship, and reduced server lag in space, is there something we're missing?"
TH: Well, yes and no. The reason it's 75 is simply because it's one lot. One lot is 75 items. In [JtL] Beta, when I posted the Friday Feature about the Yacht and the original design was that you could only have one multiplayer ship out at a time, and if you wanted to take out another one, you'd have to take all of the items off of one ship and place them on another, or put down another set of items if you decorated the two ships differently. And the community very clearly communicated to me that they did not like that. So I went back to the dev team to find out what alternatives we had. The alternative was, rather than attach a certain amount of database usage to each ship, we assigned it to a lot. So it's one lot. Now, that takes us to the layer of complexity. A lot is 75 items. That's half a house. That's like having half a house running around with you inside the game world. The computer has to track all that and it affects your personal game performance on the client.
So if we give you 150, or even more, it would be a lot you have to spend, and that's fine for some people, but it will slow your performance down, because those objects are associated with the character. And lot limits, and things like that, while we know, is not so popular with players, performance in space and performance for ground is key and when we make these decisions that are difficult, it's because we're keeping a broader picture, we're keeping the technology and all of these things working smoothly. And while we would love to give you as many items as players want, we can't right now. When someone out there at some college invents a new kind of computer, and a new kind of internet that will handle the data stream and a new kind of computer to process it, we will give you more lots.
Message Edited by truewildman on 11-23-2004 04:59 PM
Daisame
Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:22 pm
#23
Not to burst your bubble, but this has been suggested many times before. I mean I agree with the principle of the idea. I would like to see something along those lines too.
Of course, I would like to see the item limit increased beyond 750 items (75 per lot X 10 lots). That system was put in place a long time ago because of the database capacity issues.
The whole system needs to be revamped. There has to be limits on what people can store but we also need to have just a tad bit more space. We also need to be able to stack same serial items. Once an item is removed from a crate, it cannot be put back. We need more dynamic crates. We need to be able to put items back into crates. Crates should be at least 1000 capacity (the max item count from a factory run) and individual items that have the same serial should be stackable and "form" a crate of that item. We have way to many single items polluting our inventories. Many items because we don't know if we will ever need them. (Looted resources from sith guys).
The whole system needs a revamp. Maybe sometime in Publish 20 =)
Of course, I would like to see the item limit increased beyond 750 items (75 per lot X 10 lots). That system was put in place a long time ago because of the database capacity issues.
The whole system needs to be revamped. There has to be limits on what people can store but we also need to have just a tad bit more space. We also need to be able to stack same serial items. Once an item is removed from a crate, it cannot be put back. We need more dynamic crates. We need to be able to put items back into crates. Crates should be at least 1000 capacity (the max item count from a factory run) and individual items that have the same serial should be stackable and "form" a crate of that item. We have way to many single items polluting our inventories. Many items because we don't know if we will ever need them. (Looted resources from sith guys).
The whole system needs a revamp. Maybe sometime in Publish 20 =)
Daisame
Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:29 pm
#24
truewildman wrote:Some food for thought:Aktrez: Great, something we love to hear. Next question is, again, coming from more than just one person, we don't have a name down, this is just Miscellaneous, the question is: "The yacht is increasingly becoming popular with veterans, but why was the item limit set at 75? With the vast amount of room in the wonderful layout of the ship, and reduced server lag in space, is there something we're missing?"TH: Well, yes and no. The reason it's 75 is simply because it's one lot. One lot is 75 items. In [JtL] Beta, when I posted the Friday Feature about the Yacht and the original design was that you could only have one multiplayer ship out at a time, and if you wanted to take out another one, you'd have to take all of the items off of one ship and place them on another, or put down another set of items if you decorated the two ships differently. And the community very clearly communicated to me that they did not like that. So I went back to the dev team to find out what alternatives we had. The alternative was, rather than attach a certain amount of database usage to each ship, we assigned it to a lot. So it's one lot. Now, that takes us to the layer of complexity. A lot is 75 items. That's half a house. That's like having half a house running around with you inside the game world. The computer has to track all that and it affects your personal game performance on the client.So if we give you 150, or even more, it would be a lot you have to spend, and that's fine for some people, but it will slow your performance down, because those objects are associated with the character. And lot limits, and things like that, while we know, is not so popular with players, performance in space and performance for ground is key and when we make these decisions that are difficult, it's because we're keeping a broader picture, we're keeping the technology and all of these things working smoothly. And while we would love to give you as many items as players want, we can't right now. When someone out there at some college invents a new kind of computer, and a new kind of internet that will handle the data stream and a new kind of computer to process it, we will give you more lots.Message Edited by truewildman on 11-23-2004 04:59 PM
Wow... That post by TH really illustrates the way the ground game engine was used to make the space game. I think that was a fundamental flaw. The key is that the items should NOT be "flying around with you". You cannot see inside the ships form outside. The way the engine should have been created is that the ship (more or less) is the character. The items in your ship should not even have been considered. The only players that need to see those items are you and any guests aboard. A bubble of a house in space. Those items and the occupants are tracked accordingly, but everyone else in space only knows you as your exterior. There should be no need to track all that other stuff in space.
I am certainly no programmer, but this SHOULD have been possible which would have freed up SO many resources to be used for game physics, universe size, etc.
DMSL
Wed Nov 24, 2004 6:28 am
#26
Great and all, but howcan crafters get an MP ship that costs one lot if they need to use them
for harvesters and 2 houses? Yes 2 houses are needed because 150 items for a small or
medium house is way too low. 10 Lots just doesn't cut it.
Every crafter, well at least the ones
i know want to have 2 houses at least. One to live in and another for crafting, storage and
vendors. That leaves them with only 6 lots for harvesters and factories. Yes they could re-deed
one house, but since the item limit is so low, where do they have to keep their stuff?
Some have suggested storing 100 items in a factory but that doesn't solve it, since you can't
use the factory if it's completely filled with storage items.
So how about we make all the houses 2 lots? Let the number of items that can be held in a house
be influenced by the maintenance that is paid. Then make the item limit 200 for small, 300 for medium
and 400 for a large house. That way crafters are still short of a few lots but it's a start. Currently i have a
and 400 for a large house. That way crafters are still short of a few lots but it's a start. Currently i have a
medium house which costs twice the maintenance of a small house but holds the same amount of items,
which makes no sense at all.
Another sollution might be to raise lots for certain players, lower it for others and still raising the house item
limit. If done this way, crafters (Architects, Artisans, Docs etc, basically everyone needing a full complement
of harvesters and factories) should get 12 lots, while others only get 6. This however would set up the non-crafters
and the game would probably end up in a real civil war. Some players have found a sollution to this by getting a
2nd account, which is apparently allowed by SOE. I think this is a bad idea and undermines the base of the game.
This is after all an MMORPG (Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game) and not an MAORPG (Massive
This is after all an MMORPG (Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game) and not an MAORPG (Massive
Account Online Role Playing Game). The way this undermines the game is that a player has 20 lots all of a sudden
now and can make one character 100% combat while the other is an Artisan and a Doc. That way they can
basically harvest lots of resources while at the same time they can provide their combat character with all the
supplies and buffs it needs and sell the others andgain too much power that way. So the economy, which
was already bad to begin with, is made even worse with this. Why this was allowed in the first place is beyond me.
was already bad to begin with, is made even worse with this. Why this was allowed in the first place is beyond me.
So what about we make a new rule here that every player can only have 2 houses? The houses are all 2 lots but
differ in maitenance which is effected by the house item limit. So no more 1 lot = 75 items. House item limit =
maintenance cost. The bigger the house and item limit, the larger the cost. The way i see it:
Small Naboo house: 2 lots, 100 items.
Small house: 2 lots, 200 items.
Medium house: 2 lots, 300 items.
Large house: 2 lots, 400 items.
MP Starship:75 items (no lots but items inside influence mass of ship).
Total lots per player: 10.
Total houses per player: 2.
Total MP ships per player: 1.
Might need some work though, i'll get cracking.
What is certain though is that this has to change. The house item limits are too low and crafters are 2 lots short,
while pure combat players have too many.
