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Thread: JTL? you can keep it, I give up.
Marzuk147
Sun Jan 16, 2005 2:44 am
#14
Just finished all of Tier 3 - SOLO, in a Tie / IN, which is a 40k mass ship.
ErazorHarpia
Sun Jan 16, 2005 5:02 am
#15
atytula wrote:
ErazorHarpia wrote:
Well I've been trying to complete this tier 3 imperial mission for 2 weeks now (with help from other players) but it just isn't happening. I'm not going to go into specifics about the mission or what I'm doing and when but I have to say this mission is waaaay to difficult and I will NOT be forced to group with other players just to do it. I'm not a casual gamer and I'm not a powergamer either but the devs really need to think hard on the difficulty of missions at each level.
Guess I'll just be using me ship for transport now. For the ammount of content in JTL it's just not worth it. I give up
Erazor, while I sympatize with you, I also find your views shortsighted. If you pay attention to these forums, there are some poeple that complain that the missions are too hard, and there are others that say they are too easy. I personally soloed 90% of the missions with no problems, while others need to form a group and barely make it through. Is it fair for you to ask for the missions to be easier, and hence make the game more boring for me??? Is it fair for me to ask to make the missions harder and hence make the game impossible for you? I think the devs did a good job in providing a challenging set of missions for the more advanced players but still allowing newbies to advance if they form a good group.
Yeah I understand where your coming from but from what I have read on the boards the majority of people seem to think they are hard rather than easy.
What I was meaning when my contradiction was so well spotted was, I'd prefer to solo but have grouped just to get past this mission and it hasn't helped at all so after 2 weeks of trying (sometimes grouped) and failing I've decided to quit playing JTL simply because it is to difficult to finish and I am frustrated because we are forced to group or so it seems when I would want to do it solo. Maybe I didn't explain it too well but that's the facts.
Marzuk147
Sun Jan 16, 2005 3:17 pm
#16
Just finished Storm Squadron - SOLO. Never had one bit of help. Things like this are why its hard to incorperate twitch into MMORPGs. Where one person can, another cant. What can I say.
atytula
Sun Jan 16, 2005 11:01 pm
#17
ErazorHarpia wrote:
Yeah I understand where your coming from but from what I have read on the boards the majority of people seem to think they are hard rather than easy.
What I was meaning when my contradiction was so well spotted was, I'd prefer to solo but have grouped just to get past this mission and it hasn't helped at all so after 2 weeks of trying (sometimes grouped) and failing I've decided to quit playing JTL simply because it is to difficult to finish and I am frustrated because we are forced to group or so it seems when I would want to do it solo. Maybe I didn't explain it too well but that's the facts.
I hear ya. SOE always takes the wrong approach to this game. I think it would have been a lot better if we could work our way up the ranks of the Imperial/Rebel/neutral navy and as we increase in our ranks we are allowed to fly more ships. We shouldn't own our ship but rather have it assigned to us for our missions. Make it like Xwing vs Tie Fighter for game play and everyone would have been happy. Instead, they make everything a grind and if they want people to group, they just make the NPCs really tough. I just tried to do the latest combat mission for the village and 6 people couldn't even scratch the surface of 10 Sith Thugs spawing instantly all over the place.
Then we could also be given missions based on other players missions, which could lead to PvP if we chose to go down that route. Make the game dynamic, but instead the missions are linear, and the same for everyone. Well, maybe 2 years from now MMORPGs will be more dynamic and fun.
Durgan_Kael
Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:43 am
#18
First off, Marzuk, massive respect for finish SS solo. I'll fly with ya any time 
.
.I had a friend once who insisted on playing this game alone. Even if we were grouped, he'd always run off hunting by himself, getting owned, and so forth. He prefered it. I'm trying to figure out why he was even involved in an MMO.
Now, fighters don't fly missions alone (except Marzuk, who art teh shiz) typically, so you really shouldn't expect to finish missions without help. Personally,I think it made the whole experience more enjoyable to have my guildmates on teamspeak and on my wing, whether I needed the help or not. If you're not in a guild with some solid pilots, try and start a squadron, or join one that has one already. If youaren't prepared tocope with the enjoyable necessity of having player wingmen fly with you, I recommend you locate a bargain bin anddig for a copy of X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter.
...and don't hate on Storm Squadron :-p. Drop novice and switch if it's as bad as all that.
And, of course, a good joystick will also help.
Paulzossan
Mon Jan 17, 2005 6:09 am
#19
You have my sincere sympathy.
I myself hit a brick wall sometime last year - while trying to advance from "tier 3" to "tier 4".I tried solo and I tried with a group. Both did not work out for me. Once I tried to find a group for two days - with no luck.
I am a casual gamer, I play late night euro time and only have few friends who play SWG & JTL. But now I am just fed up. I've been playing for more than a year and I love the Star Wars Universe. But I will not have my playing experience ruined by a system that forces me to waste time finding wingmen.
I totally agree with the original poster and I will also just use JTL to travel and to generate money (doing 1 hour of Duty-Missions in Lok works out to 100K in pay and loot - nice).
Butonce the thrill of making money is gone (and each of the rooms in my house has an orange or blue rug with a glass table) the only thing worth waiting for is the combat upgrade. SoI guessI will probably hang around for another 4-6 weeks though.
And to all those wise-guys who try to impose their style of gaming on others: just because many people can play does not mean that it should be a prerequisite to group with many. There are tons of possibilities to interact with one another that do not need grouping. So please keep your "It's a mmorpg so group"advice to yourself if you don't mind.
Message Edited by Paulzossan on 01-17-2005 02:13 PM
Marzuk147
Mon Jan 17, 2005 2:04 pm
#20
"I'll fly with ya any time ."
Maybe. Doubt you will catch me in an imperial ship again though BWHAHAHA. SS would be a lot easier in a Rihkxyrk IMO. Privateers got the shaft, then devs overcompensated, happily (since my main is a privateer).
"And to all those wise-guys who try to impose their style of gaming on others: just because many people can play does not mean that it should be a prerequisite to group with many."
This thread kind of proves that even when something can be soloed, if its not easy enough to do so people jump to the forced grouping conclusion. How easy does it have to be, that we can stop hearing the negatively connotated forced grouping phrase, just because someone cant do everything solo?
"There are tons of possibilities to interact with one another that do not need grouping. So please keep your "It's a mmorpg so group" advice to yourself if you don't mind."
I think its sound advice. I think that what makes MMORPGs special, is the ability to play with people. To me, playing with people means doing something with them, cooperatively, or playing against them. It doesnt mean chatting to them or buying an item off of a vendor. There is more to an MMORPG than just that.
Finally, if there is no reason to group, people dont group (see ground) and if there is a reason to group, its automatically labeled as forced grouping which is automatically considered bad. Seems there is no middle ground, but frankly bieng able to solo everything, is forced non grouping. If there isnt sufficient incentive to group, then people wont do it.
If you enjoy solo play, consider how strongly you would attack someone who said that all ability to solo should be completely stripped out of the game. Thats what happens to groupers - the more people argue for soloability, the less groupers get to participate in their preferred style of play. This is why you will see people say "just get a group". Its because the more people get made solo, the less I have to group for.. and guess what grouping is at an all time low in SWG, in a game that coined its own word for how poor it is: "Solo group".
I will do things solo if they are a challenge or people tell me that they cant be done (IE Storm squadron) but Id honestly prefer to do things with a friend. I couldnt really comment on the difficulty of space not having experianced any but one squadron, but now having mastered pilot 4 times, I can say that it is all soloable, but with difficulty (Storm Squadron was not easy, however I believe its "impossible" status was recieved from people who didnt use at least WO3 / EO3, add in shunt / cap overload, and its really not all that bad, just challenging).
Twitch allows for this though, because skill / reflexes naturally gate things like this, where as on the ground, eventually everyone that wanted to, would be able to solo Nightsister Elders, if they simply got the right template and gear. This is why I WONT be arguing for any space missions to be made more difficult, even though I soloed them.
I would however like to see harder master level missions, perhaps a space station mission that spawns tier 5s for example, or missions to destroy X amount of crafts in Deep space.
Maybe. Doubt you will catch me in an imperial ship again though BWHAHAHA. SS would be a lot easier in a Rihkxyrk IMO. Privateers got the shaft, then devs overcompensated, happily (since my main is a privateer).
"And to all those wise-guys who try to impose their style of gaming on others: just because many people can play does not mean that it should be a prerequisite to group with many."
This thread kind of proves that even when something can be soloed, if its not easy enough to do so people jump to the forced grouping conclusion. How easy does it have to be, that we can stop hearing the negatively connotated forced grouping phrase, just because someone cant do everything solo?
"There are tons of possibilities to interact with one another that do not need grouping. So please keep your "It's a mmorpg so group" advice to yourself if you don't mind."
I think its sound advice. I think that what makes MMORPGs special, is the ability to play with people. To me, playing with people means doing something with them, cooperatively, or playing against them. It doesnt mean chatting to them or buying an item off of a vendor. There is more to an MMORPG than just that.
Finally, if there is no reason to group, people dont group (see ground) and if there is a reason to group, its automatically labeled as forced grouping which is automatically considered bad. Seems there is no middle ground, but frankly bieng able to solo everything, is forced non grouping. If there isnt sufficient incentive to group, then people wont do it.
If you enjoy solo play, consider how strongly you would attack someone who said that all ability to solo should be completely stripped out of the game. Thats what happens to groupers - the more people argue for soloability, the less groupers get to participate in their preferred style of play. This is why you will see people say "just get a group". Its because the more people get made solo, the less I have to group for.. and guess what grouping is at an all time low in SWG, in a game that coined its own word for how poor it is: "Solo group".
I will do things solo if they are a challenge or people tell me that they cant be done (IE Storm squadron) but Id honestly prefer to do things with a friend. I couldnt really comment on the difficulty of space not having experianced any but one squadron, but now having mastered pilot 4 times, I can say that it is all soloable, but with difficulty (Storm Squadron was not easy, however I believe its "impossible" status was recieved from people who didnt use at least WO3 / EO3, add in shunt / cap overload, and its really not all that bad, just challenging).
Twitch allows for this though, because skill / reflexes naturally gate things like this, where as on the ground, eventually everyone that wanted to, would be able to solo Nightsister Elders, if they simply got the right template and gear. This is why I WONT be arguing for any space missions to be made more difficult, even though I soloed them.
I would however like to see harder master level missions, perhaps a space station mission that spawns tier 5s for example, or missions to destroy X amount of crafts in Deep space.
Ducimus
Mon Jan 17, 2005 2:39 pm
#21
>>ErazorHarpia
Try a different squadron. Storm and Black epsilon are the hardest missions in the game, period. Worst choice of squadron as your first pilot profession. Restart as inquisition if your dead set on imp pilot, its cake, and you get emperior's retreat access to boot.
Try a different squadron. Storm and Black epsilon are the hardest missions in the game, period. Worst choice of squadron as your first pilot profession. Restart as inquisition if your dead set on imp pilot, its cake, and you get emperior's retreat access to boot.
TotalJerk
Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:12 pm
#22
I believe that the devs intended that a player would need to group to pass the later missions. In this case you have a choice to try to find assistance or never advancing. Thats really the only 2 choices that you have.
There are a lot more pressing issues with JTL then mission difficulty.
Abyssdame
Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:23 pm
#23
I did most of the missions in a group and had a blast doing it, I play mmorpg so I can be with others. One of my guildmates however who happens to be a Jedi Knight went all the way to master Pilot solo.
Ducimus
Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:32 pm
#24
>> One of my guildmates however who happens to be a Jedi Knight went all the way to master Pilot solo.
Jedi have abosoltey nothing to do with JTL. As a rebel pilot i soloed all missions except for the teir 4 exit mission and the corvette. As a privateer pilot, i soloed everything except the corvette. As an imperial i soloed everything, and Almost soloed the corvette (had a few tactical blunders) *rolls eyes*
The key is to think outside the box, fly smarter not harder. Know what you can and can't do. Things like hyperspacing to another quadrant within the same sector, disabeling rather than killing fighters, or just killing a reactor/engine on a gunboat and letting it autodestruct go a long way.
Jedi have abosoltey nothing to do with JTL. As a rebel pilot i soloed all missions except for the teir 4 exit mission and the corvette. As a privateer pilot, i soloed everything except the corvette. As an imperial i soloed everything, and Almost soloed the corvette (had a few tactical blunders) *rolls eyes*
The key is to think outside the box, fly smarter not harder. Know what you can and can't do. Things like hyperspacing to another quadrant within the same sector, disabeling rather than killing fighters, or just killing a reactor/engine on a gunboat and letting it autodestruct go a long way.
Amuro0079
Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:53 pm
#25
Where did he say he wanted to solo everything? What people want to solo are their own missions which they need to do for advancement, and that is a very reasonable demand, especially for those who play at oddhours. MMOdoes not meanyou need to groupfor everything at all times. It's just avirtual game world where lots of people arejacked inat the same time. It's their choice to group or not to group. Remeber we're not eventalking about highend content here, just missions for your own professionaladvancement, sountil something is done to the missions so everyone in the group can take the same mission at the same time without running into mutiple spawns, grouping for advancement in JtLdoes not fit well intoa MMO setup.
Marzuk147 wrote:
"and I will NOT be forced to group with other players just to do it."
Just a thought, but try a single player game? I seriously do not know why people think they should be able to solo everything in an MMORPG geez. FYI Ive soloed to master pilot 3 times now (2x in SA, 1x Havoc, doing SS now to see how it is).
Durgan_Kael
Tue Jan 18, 2005 12:11 am
#26
Ducimus wrote:
Jedi have abosoltey nothing to do with JTL.
HAAAALELUJAH! HAAAALELUJAH!
HALLELUJAH!
HALLELUJAH!
HALLEEEEELUJAAAAAH!
And if they ever do give advantages to jedi in space, I'm quitting >:-p.